For those asking for space legs - what about VR / HOTAS controls?

[Madrax573]

Just had a though while I'm doing some actual work for a change,

For all who would like space legs, I would love to have a FPS component etc but how would this work with a HOTAS control system? Would they have to swap to a KB+M FPS style control?

And lets not get into the whole VR thing that just doesn't work in a FPS style without some super serious hardware etc...

While I do like the idea of running around in space ships I just don't see how it would be made to be accessible to all the different control/VR setup that the current player base utilise without some serious limitations on the legs side of things that would kill it off quicker than a bullet to the brain.

Happy to hear others thoughts on this potential issue. I personally would rather see FDev spending time fixing the current issues and upgrading the game from a pilot seat perspective first.

 

[GroundxZERO]

VR Space Legs? We can't even get legitimate hud colors.

 

[mossfoot]

I would assume there'd have to be two controller profiles set up, one for in ship and one out of ship. No biggie.

 

[Madrax573]

VR Space Legs? We can't even get legitimate hud colors.

Thats kinda what I'm saying to the people who are always asking when we are getting spacelegs etc. FDev need to work on the in cockpit part of the game before going down the 'walking around' route.

I would assume there'd have to be two controller profiles set up, one for in ship and one out of ship. No biggie.

I think it would be bigger than ben hur TBH. I can't imagine people would be happy to keep swapping out their VR setup just to go for a walk in 2d around their ship....

 

[CoyoteXStarrk]

I wanna change the colors of my HUD on PS4 before I worry about space legs.

 

[mossfoot]

I think it would be bigger than ben hur TBH. I can't imagine people would be happy to keep swapping out their VR setup just to go for a walk in 2d around their ship....

Not for me at any rate, but then I blind touch type while flying my HOTAS in VR. I wouldn't have any problem being able to pick up an XBox controller. If anything the swap of mechanics would help establish the different kind of gameplay that would be involved. Personally, I'd want it to feel different when I got out of my ship. My only regret would be not being able to stand up and walk on an omni-directional pad like in Ready Player One

But for those who are using a Xbox style controller, hey, more power to them, they will be able to do it all.

 

[Madrax573]

Not for me at any rate, but then I blind touch type while flying my HOTAS in VR. I wouldn't have any problem being able to pick up an XBox controller. If anything the swap of mechanics would help establish the different kind of gameplay that would be involved. Personally, I'd want it to feel different when I got out of my ship. My only regret would be not being able to stand up and walk on an omni-directional pad like in Ready Player One

But for those who are using a Xbox style controller, hey, more power to them, they will be able to do it all.

Yeah I can she how you'd be able to do it with a pad etc but given the large number of different setups avail to players right now I think it would be a bloody tough task to build such similar flexibility into FPS style gameplay. VR currently just doesn't do FPS very well at all. More the pity!

Hmm maybe I can work on the missus to get an omni-pad in my shed!!!

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I use a Logitech 3d Pro Extreme stick and a CH Pro Throttle.

Would work just fine for me - F/B L/R to walk, twist to turn, any one of a number of hat switches to look around.

Gotta love solutions for things that aren't even problems yet....

 

[Finn638]

For all who would like space legs, I would love to have a FPS component etc but how would this work with a HOTAS control system? Would they have to swap to a KB+M FPS style control?

That would just depend on what you can do with space legs. If it's just walking around the ship/planet surface then HOTAS may be just fine for it. If it's FPS shooting like COD (which, providing space legs ever happen, highly doubtful will ever turn into an FPS shooter), then one might want more dedicated and precise controls. But you can play FPS games with a controller, you should be able to do the same with a HOTAS. They will probably give you a choice of control options.

 

[Madrax573]

I use a Logitech 3d Pro Extreme stick and a CH Pro Throttle.

Would work just fine for me - F/B L/R to walk, twist to turn, any one of a number of hat switches to look around.

Gotta love solutions for things that aren't even problems yet....

I use KB+M so already have the optimal setup for FPS gameplay but thats not the point I'm making.

I used to play FPS with a joystick back in the day as well so could easily convert a basic Hotas style setup but I'm not sure that most people would want to play FPS gameplay using a hotas.

And VR just doesn't work yet for FPS. so would they be expected to remove their VR just to walk around? It would really mess with people balance is they were 'walking' around using a controller for eg but can only turn their head in VR....

Or maybe not..... I might just be overthinking things with it..

 

[GraXXoR]

Swapping to a KBAM while using VR is not a biggie, I use mouse for my SRV Turret while using dual JS for general flying.

While I love walking around the Reclaimer in Star Citizen and I’m a staunch supporter of space legs, I think that due to the apparently limited design and manpower budget, Elite Dangerous needs to prioritize a lot of other things before they are implemented.

Proper exploration being number one. Better mining and making use of the asteroid belts for heaven’s sake. Proper surface prospecting... better missions, better C&P mechanics, proper crew management, i.e. allow NPC crew within the ship, more SRVs and allow NPC control of SRVs, atmospheric planets, procedural cities (not necessarily visitable) procedural stations and interiors for variety with actual signs of life... etc etc

Basically, a thousand core-grade and general placeholders need replacing before space legs can be considered - and I REALLY want spacelegs, not another placeholder.

 

[Madrax573]

Swapping to a KBAM while using VR is not a biggie, I use mouse for my SRV Turret while using dual JS for general flying.

While I love walking around the Reclaimer in Star Citizen and I’m a staunch supporter of space legs, I think that due to the apparently limited design and manpower budget, Elite Dangerous needs to prioritize a lot of other things before they are implemented.

Proper exploration being number one. Better mining and making use of the asteroid belts for heaven’s sake. Proper surface prospecting... better missions, better C&P mechanics, proper crew management, i.e. allow NPC crew within the ship, more SRVs and allow NPC control of SRVs, atmospheric planets, procedural cities (not necessarily visitable) procedural stations and interiors for variety with actual signs of life... etc etc

Basically, a thousand core-grade and general placeholders need replacing before space legs can be considered - and I REALLY want spacelegs, not another placeholder.

Bloody good post my friend!

I too would love it.... But they have a dearth of other stuff to work on rather then give us a half thing to do nothing with.

 

[mossfoot]

Yeah I can she how you'd be able to do it with a pad etc but given the large number of different setups avail to players right now I think it would be a bloody tough task to build such similar flexibility into FPS style gameplay. VR currently just doesn't do FPS very well at all. More the pity!

Well, it largely depends on what they would use VR for. I doubt it's ever going to be a COD large scale shooter, for example. On board ships and space stations they probably won't even allow shooting at all.

My thoughts on what they might do in order to get around that whole "death" thing? Simple. You know those Achillies adverts that are up all over stations? Humanoid robots? Bingo.

Basically when on board a ship or station you'd be you, and in a non-PVP environment. But if you leave the ship on a planet, you'd have a robotic proxie (much like how you use an SLF). Probably have a bunch of backups too (again, like the SLF).

But, again, I doubt it will ever be COD scale large squad gameplay.

 

[rhiz]

As someone who plays in VR, this was my first thought when I heard suggestion of space-legs being introduced. As you say, in the absence of a room-scale set-up or a consumer level VR treadmill, first-person locomotion is very troublesome in VR. Most developers opt for the rather unsatisfactory point-and-teleport method.

That said, one of the most satisfying and convincing mechanics that I’ve come across is Lone Echo/Echo Arena, where the player is in a zero-gravity environment and moves by grabbing scenery or utilising small propulsion packs on their wrists. It’s beautifully done, and having virtual hands really adds to the sense of reality (using the Occulus Touch). Of course, zero gravity is not what most people imagine when they think of space-legs, but it's the perfect conceit for VR (we are in space after all). I’m actually working towards developing a prototype that combines what I love about Elite with the freedom and sense of immersion that Lone Echo engenders, but I’m just an amateur who dabbles in development. It is certainly one of the things that FD will have to think very carefully about.

[video=youtube;bn1Lt1tdz4c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn1Lt1tdz4c[/video]

 

[DaggerSnake]

As someone who plays in VR, this was my first thought when I heard suggestion of space-legs being introduced. As you say, in the absence of a room-scale set-up or a consumer level VR treadmill, first-person locomotion is very troublesome in VR. Most developers opt for the rather unsatisfactory point-and-teleport method.

That said, one of the most satisfying and convincing mechanics that I’ve come across is Lone Echo/Echo Arena, where the player is in a zero-gravity environment and moves by grabbing scenery or utilising small proposition packs on their wrists. It’s beautifully done, and having virtual hands really adds to the sense of reality (using the Occulus Touch). Of course, zero gravity is not what most people imagine when they think of space-legs, but it's the perfect conceit for VR (we are in space after all). I’m actually working towards developing a prototype that combines what I love about Elite with the freedom and sense of immersion that Lone Echo engenders, but I’m just an amateur who dabbles in development. It is certainly one of the things that FD will have to think very carefully about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn1Lt1tdz4c

Oh absolutely. Anything other than Lone Echo mechanics for zero-g space legs is weak. It’s the best, hands down.

 

[kiario]

Just had a though while I'm doing some actual work for a change,

For all who would like space legs, I would love to have a FPS component etc but how would this work with a HOTAS control system? Would they have to swap to a KB+M FPS style control?

And lets not get into the whole VR thing that just doesn't work in a FPS style without some super serious hardware etc...

While I do like the idea of running around in space ships I just don't see how it would be made to be accessible to all the different control/VR setup that the current player base utilise without some serious limitations on the legs side of things that would kill it off quicker than a bullet to the brain.

Happy to hear others thoughts on this potential issue. I personally would rather see FDev spending time fixing the current issues and upgrading the game from a pilot seat perspective first.

If you have played subnautica then you know how beautifully it can work with mouse and keyboard and VR.

 

[etien]

Lone Echo is indeed very good in VR, but non HOTAS... Having to change from HOTAS to TOUCH while in VR would break immersion and be cumbersome.

I think that a type of EVA with HOTAS would be great and a good compromise ( going out of the ship to repair, visit derelic ships and asteroids etc ).

Inside space stations a system of wagons could do to go from place to place ( think the intro of the first Half Life ) and driving vehicules for planet exploration is ok. No FPS please, just wont work in VR.

It also shows that to do something like Lone Echo would be ALOT of extra works, I really think planet landing should come first

 

[Iskariot]

For those asking for space legs - what about VR / HOTAS controls?

Just had a though while I'm doing some actual work for a change,
For all who would like space legs, I would love to have a FPS component etc but how would this work with a HOTAS control system? Would they have to swap to a KB+M FPS style control?
And lets not get into the whole VR thing that just doesn't work in a FPS style without some super serious hardware etc...

While I do like the idea of running around in space ships I just don't see how it would be made to be accessible to all the different control/VR setup that the current player base utilise without some serious limitations on the legs side of things that would kill it off quicker than a bullet to the brain.

Happy to hear others thoughts on this potential issue. I personally would rather see FDev spending time fixing the current issues and upgrading the game from a pilot seat perspective first.

It is not just many players asking for FPA.
FDev basically said from the very start that FPA (first person action) was one of their long term goals.
Quite recently one of the devs said on a live stream that the thing he was most looking forward to, is being able to walk around and experiencing the scale of the ED galaxy on foot.
So I guess it is still on their list.

One of the reasons I have not bought into VR is the fact that I can't see it working well with freely walking around.
I have not yet seen any solution of combining VR with FPA that is acceptable to me as a 'fanatic' FPA/FPS gamer.
I think VR works relatively fine in situations in which the player is seated in a vehicle, but moving around on foot never seems to get beyond awkward and limited and nauseating.

 

[777Driver]

One of the reasons I have not bought into VR is the fact that I can't see it working well with freely walking around.
I have not yet seen any solution of combining VR with FPA that is acceptable to me as a 'fanatic' FPA/FPS gamer.
but moving around on foot never seems to get beyond awkward and limited and nauseating.

Think this is the problem right here, how can you comment on something you have never tried? Can honestly say moving between HOTAS/KB, HOTAS/touch controllers is a non issue. Have tried quite a few games/sim that involve using a vehicle and being able to walk around.

Regarding ED, we can already walk around the bridge of the ships, or simulate walking around the environment using the old classified camera and new system. The transition from HOTAS to touch is a non issue, I'd say the bulk of ED VR users are using Oculus Dash.

 

[GunnerBill]

FPS in ED? Sorry not even slightly interested.

My FPS days are long behind me.