If Elite: Dangerous is a grind fest, does that mean it's for old people?

[Globusdiablo]

I'm saying there's a very non-trivial difference between something that expands the scope of an entire game (expansion) and something like special weapons or ships or item packs that give a player advantage over those who don't buy them, that are only available via purchase as a microtransaction (pay to win DLC). Star Trek Online is a good example of the latter - some of the fanciest ships in the game are only available through their store.

Ok. So by your reasoning, when buying Horizons (expansion, right?) say for planetary gameplay, players are automatically agreeing to grind Engineers for special weapons in order to be able to compete in direct PvP. Right? Not trying to be snarky, seriously trying to see your point of view.

 

[Roybe]

As someone who have produced creative works from ground up I will dully disagree. In fact, that's biggest challenge of an artist, especially if he flies solo - grind trough all stages, and never lose soul or sight of what you want to achieve. That's why recording of song can take 10 hours total, but 6 weeks in schedule timeframe.

Try writing if you want to feel grind! It takes a few days/weeks to get the story down on paper....then months of edits and polishes, which might include huge rewrites, with more editing etc.! I love to write...I actually enjoy the editing...but man...sometimes...getting it correct is painful!

 

[Roybe]

Initial "pay to win" is arguably already in Elite: Dangerous. The Horizons DLC hides the Engineers.

This logic seems disingenuous...the question that you are failing to ask is, 'Would it have been better if FDev forced all players to purchase the upgrade to play the game?'

Basically, Horizons was a choice players could make, as to buy, or not buy. By not buying, they are opting out of the changes Horizon's provides, but can still play the game at some level. No one was promised that there would always be free upgrades....it was expected that people would have to spend money to keep up with the changes of the game.

Horizons was a much larger change to the game than DLC (I always think horse armor here). The game was always advertised as 'ever expanding' on a '10 year development curve', so large scale changes are expected to occur...and payment is expected for those updates (unless you bought the life-time upgrade package....but that is a consumer issue of another discussion).

So 'arguably', the game changed, had major systems added, as expected and advertised, that people had a choice to opt into, or not, with a purchase.

The more changes the game adds, the further behind those that do not buy the expansions fall....seems logical to me.

 

[Globusdiablo]

This logic seems disingenuous...the question that you are failing to ask is, 'Would it have been better if FDev forced all players to purchase the upgrade to play the game?'

Basically, Horizons was a choice players could make, as to buy, or not buy. By not buying, they are opting out of the changes Horizon's provides, but can still play the game at some level. No one was promised that there would always be free upgrades....it was expected that people would have to spend money to keep up with the changes of the game.

Horizons was a much larger change to the game than DLC (I always think horse armor here). The game was always advertised as 'ever expanding' on a '10 year development curve', so large scale changes are expected to occur...and payment is expected for those updates (unless you bought the life-time upgrade package....but that is a consumer issue of another discussion).

So 'arguably', the game changed, had major systems added, as expected and advertised, that people had a choice to opt into, or not, with a purchase.

Would've, could've, should've... I prefer adressing what is.

And I don't think I've made comments in this thread on whether content is free or not.

So yes, arguably, I stand by my opinion. By buying Horizons (expansion/dlc/call it what you will) for whatever reason, you automatically agree to grinding Engineers in order to remain competitive in direct PvP.

 

[Lucifera Danzig]

Ok. So by your reasoning, when buying Horizons (expansion, right?) say for planetary gameplay, players are automatically agreeing to grind Engineers for special weapons in order to be able to compete in direct PvP. Right? Not trying to be snarky, seriously trying to see your point of view.

It's not an automatic agreement to grind. By buying the expansion, you have access to the expansion and all it contains, to use or not use all of as you see fit. It's not pay to win, it's just an expansion on the game, which increases the scope of the entire game and its features.

 

[Globusdiablo]

It's not an automatic agreement to grind. By buying the expansion, you have access to the expansion and all it contains, to use or not use all of as you see fit. It's not pay to win, it's just an expansion on the game, which increases the scope of the entire game and its features.

So would you agree that buying Horizons leaves you floundering in direct PvP unless you grind Engineers?

 

[Muetdhiver]

ED is grindy to hide the lack of content and gameplay in season 1.

It's a vestigial crutch used as an excuse for half cooked features.

IMO, the game has now enough content and gameplay to ditch the crutch,
but I fear the crutch has become enshrined in the design philosophy.