I think I've realised what the problem with ED is.. Braben has lost interest and moved on?

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Ethaidan

Ethaidan
Eliza said:
You all demand this one perfect title. It simply does not exist. Here in germany we have a word for it: "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" (Would apreciate any help if there's a comparable metaphore to that word in english ;) )
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Ah, the Germans... car engineers extraordinaire, impeccable construction standards, and brilliant turns of phrase - thses forums are one of my guilty shaudenfreude-esque pleasures. But, no... there is nothing that elegantly translates. More crudely, however may I introduce you to the elusive Shmoo...

https://goo.gl/images/zkqmFd

They reproduce asexually and are incredibly prolific, multiplying exponentially faster than rabbits. They require no sustenance other than air. Shmoos are delicious to eat, and are eager to be eaten. If a human looks at one hungrily, it will happily immolate itself—either by jumping into a frying pan, after which they taste like chicken, or into a broiling pan, after which they taste like steak. When roasted they taste like pork, and when baked they taste like catfish. (Raw, they taste like oysters on the half-shell.)

They also produce eggs (neatly packaged), milk (bottled, grade-A), and butter—no churning required. Their pelts make perfect bootleather or house timber, depending on how thick one slices it. They have no bones, so there's absolutely no waste. Their eyes make the best suspender buttons, and their whiskers make perfect toothpicks. In short, they are simply the perfect ideal of a subsistence agricultural herd animal.

Naturally gentle, they require minimal care, and are ideal playmates for young children. The frolicking of shmoon is so entertaining (such as their staged "shmoosical comedies") that people no longer feel the need to watch television or go to the movies.

Some of the more tasty varieties of shmoo are more difficult to catch. Usually shmoo hunters, now a sport in some parts of the country, utilize a paper bag, flashlight and stick to capture their shmoos. At night the light stuns them, then they can be whacked in the head with the stick and put in the bag for frying up later on. (Wikipedia)

Is that the game everyone was 'promised'? The Shmoo of all space sims?
 
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CMDR Pugwash

CMDR Pugwash
I heard he's working on the Q4 update at a secret bunker somewhere.

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Bartizan

Bartizan

IndigoWyrd

IndigoWyrd
Ralph Vargr said:
Astro or Muttley, please.

This is a business. It should be run like one. Yes, Elite needs a re-write. That's a massive job, needs funding and people, and probably will not occur until Frontier has a few more titles pulling in revenue. It's taken 5+ years to get this version here. A revised version will take at least as long. Until then, we will have to make do with this as our space game fix.
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You can't rewrite what isn't written. Elite is a work-in-progress. It's a massive undertaking beyond the scope of forum comprehension.

Yes, it moves at a galactic pace. Yes, that Thing You Want isn't implemented yet. It will happen when it happens.

Of course, if you're unhappy with the rate of development or release, I hear Star Citizen is blazing along, already on it's 9th fully complete release.
 

peteuplink

peteuplink
I think the biggest issue with ED is it's trying to do too much. Instead of concentrating on making a good successor to FE2 and FFE, and thereby aiming it squarely at the core Elite '84 fan base, the developers are trying too hard to make it into a game that tries to appeal to the widest group of players, be they PvP players, PvE Players, fans of Eve or the X series, explorers, traders, casuals and hardcore gamers all at the same time... I'm not saying they shouldn't appeal to a wide audience, afterall they need to sell copies, but the game feels like one of those racing titles like Forza, Project Cars or GT where it's trying to do a lot of different things but isn't actually very good at any of them, which leaves the whole experience feeling a bit flat.

The game for me just doesn't feel like an Elite game. It did at the very start when I got the premium beta and I was trying to trade while getting a lot of interdictions from NPC pirates, which I loved because it felt like I was playing a proper modern version of the '84 classic, but people complained about the interdictions and FDEV nerfed it, so that now the game basically feels like Euro Truck Simulator in space. Long stretches of nothing to do but steer left or right a little bit and watch the distance come down... Except in ED we don't have traffic lights and weather to break up the monotony of sitting on your butt looking at a clock counting down until it's time to press the button at the required point. The most excitement I ever see in the game is if I mess up my approach and have to do a u-turn. I've not been interdicted by an NPC pirate for months.

The game should have stayed true to its roots. No silly engineers rubbish or anything like that. It should have started off with a base game similar to '84 Elite and Horizons should have been the season that added all landable planets and fleshed out the galaxy.

If I was developing the game, my basic road map would have been like this:
Season 1 - Elite 4: '84 style base game (basically everything the '84 game was with Thargoids, agressive NPC pirates, the lot. Sort of the way ED was heading in beta before FDEV nerfed it based on player complaints) - concentrate on bug fixes for the core game to make everything run smoothly in preparation for the upcoming additions.
Season 2 - Horizons: Add in different types of landable planets, starting with moons in the first quarter, atmospheric uninhabited worlds in the 2nd quarter, earthlikes in the 3rd quarter.
Season 3 - New Frontiers: Flesh out the mission system and implement passenger missions and ships, also improve the exploration system with orrery maps and more things to find in space like comets, abandoned stations, alien ships, ancient ruins and more things to do on planets.
Season 4 - Encounters: Commander Creator, which includes the ability to choose starting planet and allegiance, and limited movement within your ship in preparation for the full on "Space legs", introduce some proper tension between the major factions.
Season 5 - Elite Dangerous: Space Legs, alk around in ships, stations, planets and do EVA missions, ongoing conflict between the factions, basically just turn up the galaxy to 11.

What I wouldn't add... engineers (they're pointless), Guardians, these odd stations like bars and things that just seem to be sitting there doing nothing but look pretty, megaships (unless there was some proper gameplay to get from them).
 
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Rafe Zetter

Banned
Rafe Zetter
EdzUp said:
Elite is still moving forward and I'm sure atmospheric landings and space legs will come when the tech is there OR everyone has upgraded to a level where it's feasible and the 1-3% who don't have powerful enough tech get left behind. From 1984 to now Elite has come a long way and so has computers so in ten years who knows where it will be :)
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In any type of business this would construe a monumental breach of "misselling" laws - and anyone who is OK with waiting until the rest of the gaming world "catches up technologically" with them deserves what they get - which will be the absolute definition of the prank "a long weight / wait" (google it).

"I'm sorry sir - I can't provide you with your meal until everyone else eating chinese food in the city has learned how to use chopsticks." (and you're not in China or Japan)

That's basically what you just said EdzUp.

Atmospheric landings, and the very visible lack thereof, has been one of those things that FDev has had it's nose rubbed in time and time again.

ANY developer worth a damn would have made some sort of statement about it by now - 3 years since launch and counting.

If the marketing team has told them to keep a lid on it so they can go "TADAA!!!! - look atmospheric landings" in some big reveal, they will surely be deflated when all a good portion of the community does is go "ABOUT FFFING TIME!!!" (before tearing the halfbaked work to shreds).

Lack of atmospheric landings is also the basis for my refund case (backed during KS, not played since a few hours in alpha testing - still waiting for what I paid for before I do, UK selling laws don't ask me to explain) - FDev refused and actually used the words "it's coming"**, trading standards decided to take up the case for me - they don't do that unless they think there is a very real case to answer. Feel free to make up your own minds on how that reflects on FDev.

** so is the end of the universe - fancy waiting with me?
 
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Delilah

D
Suvi Anwar said:
I posted something in another thread a while back, and I believe it is relevant here.


While ED is highly likely to remain an on-going project, there are unmistakable facts about game development and studios.
The following is my perspective after more than 3 decades in this business, and I believe ED has fully found its way here.

  1. The current main project will always have the studios attention, most of the resources (both human and financial), and focus.
    ​
    This is not Elite Dangerous, and hasn't been for a while.
  2. Content for projects that are on-going but not the studios focus will be slow in development, and have limited QA focus.
    ​
    Mainly because of limited resources, both in personnel and budget.
  3. Profits from the latest and greatest project never directly benefit older projects.
    ​
    Older projects usually have minimal personnel assigned to them, the bulk of which often include those that are less pivotal in the studios larger goals, or newer personnel that are less experienced with the engine the studio prefers to use.
  4. No matter how much the project is the "pet" of any studio executives, resources are still an issue.
    ​
    Unless a studio is in an active growth state, e.g. hiring personnel for simultaneous large scale projects), resources will shift around to where they are needed most. This usually means that the best people on one project get moved to the newest project they expect to keep the studio financially profitable.
  5. Art personnel are usually shared across multiple projects.
    ​
    Usually, and with a focus on the current main project, with tasks from older projects waiting for gaps.
  6. Older projects are on the bottom of the marketing and community totem poles.
    ​
    Marketing is very expensive. The average marketing department in a big studio will easily have a budget 2-3 times that of any other department in a studio. Community management personnel are also expensive and is why there's usually minimal focus on older less profitable projects, and the reason why many forums have volunteer moderation staff, it cuts costs tremendously.

This is not an all-inclusive list by any stretch, I could go on for another 4 or 5 hours, but I think the list above cover the main highlights.

Pay particular attention to point 4. This is still Braben's game, it's still his pet, but he does need to make sure the company is making money and keeping the doors open and the paychecks being written. That means his focus is going to be on what is keeping his and his employees paychecks funded, and that, my friends, is not Elite Dangerous.
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This is the most insightful comment to date. I'm not going to find the discussion here or on reddit about a past interview about David's vision for elite. Suffice it to say Elite is not a space shooter (or another gaming genre) or a strict simulation. It is intended to be a hybrid virtual world, a cosmos.

In the interview, Braben was perhaps more excited about the sim part than he was the gaming part. Hence as long as improvements are continuously made to the galactic model, and the gaming part continues to pay for that development, then gaming and other sim improvements are a secondary concern. And this is exacerbated by Suvi Anwar's well taken points.

Yet this doesn't mean that Elite may not progress and thrive. Only that it will be slower going than many of us might hope.
 
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Iskariot

Iskariot
Cosmos said:
I think I've realised what the problem with ED is.. Braben has lost interest and moved on?
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I do not believe that for a second.

Currently FDev is busy with Beyond.
We have an approximate idea about what FDev is working on, and there are a few surprises.
We know FDev doesn't like to spill the beans on every occasion and they sure hate to over promise.

There is hardly anything more than we already know that Braben could or woul tell us now.

Having said that... I would sure love some new inspiring dev diary episodes.
 
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BinaryFu

BinaryFu
GroundxZERO said:
It’s becoming more and more clear that something happened to stifle development for a good while and it took them time to get on track. I think we’re in early stages still but I am hopeful.
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Could it possibly have had to do with when Frontier said, "Hey, we're going to make expansions a paid product" and everyone pretty much spit in their oatmeal until they said, "Fine, free expansions" and then everyone said, "Hey, we want your stuff updated and quality checked as if we were paying you more money for it..."

You can't slap a company in the face over them wanting to make money off a product to PUT BACK INTO the product, and then expect them to put the resources of other games into it when they can't make money off the initial game anymore.

I am personally frustrated with the progress that Elite Dangerous has had, but I'm even more frustrated with a community that effectively hamstrung the company from being able to have the resources to improve it to the level the community wants.

Just my two cents.
 
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DoctorDanny

DoctorDanny
Iskariot said:
I do not believe that for a second.

Currently FDev is busy with Beyond.
We have an approximate idea about what FDev is working on, and there are a few surprises.
We know FDev doesn't like to spill the beans on every occasion and they sure hate to over promise.

There is hardly anything more than we already know that Braben could or woul tell us now.

Having said that... I would sure love some new inspiring dev diary episodes.
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They are 'busy' with Beyond in the same way they were busy during the two years it took them roll out the Horizons 'content'.
I'm not holding my breath.
 

Arithon

Arithon
According to the OP there is a "problem" with ED and it is caused by David Braben's perceived lack of enthusiasm for the game.

Not buying it for a second.

I've talked about the game to this man face to face. It's his baby. No way is he ever "moving on". He spent some time discussing ship boarding mechanics with my (then 12) son at the Elite launch party. This isn't some distant CEO with his eyes on the money, but a hands-on boss, interested in his company and it's staff.

The key difference between now and 2014 is that there is now a community team. Frontier has a number of staff doing PR and community relations and customer support, that just were not there four years ago. Ashley Barley moved on and they've got Ed, Zac, Paige, Bo, Will and many others. The company expanded. There's now a crowd of people between David Braben and the public. The downside is we don't hear from David Braben much, but then we also don't get PR gaffs like Frontier promising features they ultimately cannot deliver - they've learned and changed how things operate. Is that a problem? No. It's just a change.

I miss the development diaries and while I understand making videos is time consuming, I have on several occasions mentioned them to Ed and Zac suggesting they do some as retrospectives e.g. "Chieftain; from drawing board to launch".

We're also no longer talking about a PC alpha with a few hundred players, but a massive live game with hundreds of thousands of players across four platforms.

So is the lack of David Braben hyping the game on a weekly basis really a problem? Does it affect the addition of new content (Squadrons, mining, exploring etc.) later this year? Not really. Not at all.

Slow and steady wins the race.
 
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