PvP The PvE <-> PvP Rift

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

If you go for a solution that makes everyone happy you get one that makes few happy. Based on the general tone of this forum and the arc of threads like these, it seems the past few years prove me right.

But hey, live in your utopian fantasy worlds where nothing costs anything. I’ll be over here, in the real world, getting my hands in the dirt everyday to build something better.

They're just going to have to get over it for the sake of balancing.

Again its not NPC's they are effecting. Its other players.

If they dont want to be effected by "PVP" Dont do it at all. Any of it. Thats the only way to balance PVP activities.

Whoever came up with the words, "Direct" and "indirect" PVP is a full blown idiot. Its all PVP. Do it all or none.

We seen what happens when you let it mix. Half the game doesnt get used. Modules/ships and so forth.

There is and always will be a META game.

They know whats happening here. They dont want to be stopped. IMO their days are numbered for the sheer balancing reason alone.

And they want people using what they created.

Its common sense.

 

[Mohrgan]

They're just going to have to get over it for the sake of balancing.

Again its not NPC's they are effecting. Its other players.

If they dont want to be effected by "PVP" Dont do it at all. Any of it. Thats the only way to balance PVP activities.

Whoever came up with the words, "Direct" and "indirect" PVP is a full blown idiot. Its all PVP. Do it all or none.

We seen what happens when you let it mix. Half the game doesnt get used. Modules/ships and so forth.

There is and always will be a META game.

They know whats happening here. They dont want to be stopped. IMO their days are numbered for the sheer balancing reason alone.

And they want people using what they created.

Its common sense.

It's all in your head. It starts with the feeling that open mode is something special. Something that needs to be preserved, or is somehow the benchmark for the E|D experience. Which is not true at all. Look at how FD have developed the game. They have carefully designed the game to allow for equal access to all modes and mechanics for all players. Each and every player has the ability to choose how they play the game.

The attempt to push an open-only mindset on a game that has been developed in exactly the opposite direction from it's inception is pure folly. A realistic approach would be to campaign to have a PvP based reward system added to the BGS, and PP. Removing access to the majority of players is what we call in the business a 'Non-Starter'.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

It's all in your head. It starts with the feeling that open mode is something special. Something that needs to be preserved, or is somehow the benchmark for the E|D experience. Which is not true at all. Look at how FD have developed the game. They have carefully designed the game to allow for equal access to all modes and mechanics for all players. Each and every player has the ability to choose how they play the game.

The attempt to push an open-only mindset on a game that has been developed in exactly the opposite direction from it's inception is pure folly. A realistic approach would be to campaign to have a PvP based reward system added to the BGS, and PP. Removing access to the majority of players is what we call in the business a 'Non-Starter'.

Its not all in my head.

I and many others do exactly what I am saying here. WHy would you not be efficient.

Fact of the matter is, you cant handle the truth. Because I have grounds in asking for change. Evidence, Proof and so forth. Discredit it all you'd like. Its not going to save you.

Ill tell you one more time so you get it. I understand how the game is now.

 

[Mohrgan]

Its not all in my head.

I and many others do exactly what I am saying here. WHy would you not be efficient.

Fact of the matter is, you cant handle the truth. Because I have grounds in asking for change. Evidence, Proof and so forth. Discredit it all you'd like. Its not going to save you.

Ill tell you one more time so you get it. I understand how the game is now.

Your grounds are covered by universal access. You can use the modes just as any other player can. That you may choose to, or wish to play in open only has no moment to the issue. Your choice cannot dictate another players chance to choose. PvE buckets, the mechanics involved in both the BGS and PP, can be accessed from any mode. Problem solved.

Maybe you do understand how the game is now. But, you haven't demonstrated your understanding of how it got this way, or why. Your point of view is too invested in your desired outcome, to see the facts in front of you. I challenge you to find a game activity that can only be done in open.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Your grounds are covered by universal access. You can use the modes just as any other player can. That you may choose to, or wish to play in open only has no moment to the issue. Your choice cannot dictate another players chance to choose. PvE buckets, the mechanics involved in both the BGS and PP, can be accessed from any mode. Problem solved.

Maybe you do understand how the game is now. But, you haven't demonstrated your understanding of how it got this way, or why. Your point of view is too invested in your desired outcome, to see the facts in front of you. I challenge you to find a game activity that can only be done in open.

Facts are half the game doesnt get used or modules because of it. Toxicity has grown. And just like the Engineers before 3.0 its created an unfair playing field.

Powerplay has failed. And everyone uses the modes with a barebones ship with only a FSD to get stuff done.

When stuff doesnt get used in ANY GAME because of a META. It gets changed.

Sorry dude. Hate to break it to ya. One day they will change it so activities can only be done in open. Its been a pressing issue for way too long.

Just dont be upset when it happens. I've shown every reason why it will. You can accept it or not. Thats fine.

 

[CMBDI]

This game is literally some people's whole life

If that is the case then maybe it could go like this. If you are attacked but clean, then the insurance payout comes from the attacker's account, not the clean, innocent players account.

 

[Mohrgan]

Facts are half the game doesnt get used or modules because of it. Toxicity has grown. And just like the Engineers before 3.0 its created an unfair playing field.

Powerplay has failed. And everyone uses the modes with a barebones ship with only a FSD to get stuff done.

When stuff doesnt get used in ANY GAME because of a META. It gets changed.

Sorry dude. Hate to break it to ya. One day they will change it so activities can only be done in open. Its been a pressing issue for way too long.

Just dont be upset when it happens. I've shown every reason why it will. You can accept it or not. Thats fine.

Somehow, prove to me that half of the game doesn't get used. And then, if you magically produce some compelling evidence, prove that the modes have anything to do with it.

You are hardly a convincing soothsayer here. There has been exactly zero indication from FD that they agree with your points. I hope when Q4 comes, you can take your own advice there.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Somehow, prove to me that half of the game doesn't get used. And then, if you magically produce some compelling evidence, prove that the modes have anything to do with it.

You are hardly a convincing soothsayer here. There has been exactly zero indication from FD that they agree with your points. I hope when Q4 comes, you can take your own advice there.

Its not you I need to convince.

 

[Mohrgan]

Its not you I need to convince.

And, FD have indicated just what? That PvP exists, and so do the modes? If you're counting on using your arguments to change FD's collective mind, over the current design of the game, I have nothing at all to worry about.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

And, FD have indicated just what? That PvP exists, and so do the modes? If you're counting on using your arguments to change FD's collective mind, over the current design of the game, I have nothing at all to worry about.

Then you're up for severe disappointment. Because you refuse to look outside the box on the issues its caused alone.

Honestly I never had to say anything. The way the community treats each other when "organic" PVP happens is enough. Not to mention PVP holding no value in a game where its enabled.

If they were to go your away. They would have told the 1% to suck it up and removed PVP in the PVE ONLY GAME. But they didnt.

Mull it over for a while. Its not hard to figure out.

We would have weapons like diablo 3 if this was the case. And not a level playing field with engineers.

 

[Mohrgan]

Then you're up for severe disappointment. Because you refuse to look outside the box on the issues its caused alone.

Honestly I never had to say anything. The way the community treats each other when "organic" PVP happens is enough. Not to mention PVP holding no value in a game where its enabled.

If they were to go your away. They would have told the 1% to suck it up and removed PVP in the PVE ONLY GAME. But they didnt.

Mull it over for a while. Its not hard to figure out.

We would have weapons like diablo 3 if this was the case. And not a level playing field with engineers.

Psyche! I never thought of that. FD, the developers that set up a FF discussion over the KWS, is just going to pop up, in Q4, and say: 'Right, everything has to be done in open now. Have fun." Even you can't take those chances very seriously. If your bravado is meant to instill some doubt in my mind, it ain't working.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Psyche! I never thought of that. FD, the developers that set up a FF discussion over the KWS, is just going to pop up, in Q4, and say: 'Right, everything has to be done in open now. Have fun." Even you can't take those chances very seriously. If your bravado is meant to instill some doubt in my mind, it ain't working.

Thats because youre lumping everything together. Instead of a the multiplayer part of the game specifically.

This has been your and many others issues this whole time.

Stop generalizing everything and everyone. And maybe it will get through to you.

 

[Mohrgan]

Thats because youre lumping everything together. Instead of a the multiplayer part of the game specifically.

This has been your and many others issues this whole time.

Stop generalizing everything and everyone. And maybe it will get through to you.

Hammer meat Multi-tool. If you attempt to marrow it down to what a PvPer would want, sure maybe you have a point, but FD have never even intimated that they want PvP to dictate mechanics. That is the open-only crowds delusion. Not every Player Group is PvP focused. Multiplayer doesn't mean PvP. Broaden your horizons a little.

When you are talking about broad stroke changes to the game's rules, you certainly must generalize. What changes happen have to suit more than just the Space Despots trying to shoot everyone in the face.

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

So you are suggesting taking the BGS, PFs and PP away from the largest part of the playerbase.

Why not take them away from just open instead. That would make fewer people upset and would be by far the most logical thing to do. Especially since you are likely to loose a percentage of your players if you remove them it certainly makes a lot more sense to loose the smallest number of players as possible.

Or they could decide to completely remove them from the game so no side feels slighted.

You would be up in arms if someone was on the forums suggesting open be removed from influencing anything. That Open was only for shooting each other, no missions no trading etc.

You would complain that the game was sold to you with the option to trade, bounty hunt and pirate but dont think anyone should complain about having something taken away from them.

That would be described by our guidance councilors as a character flaw and a pretty major one at that.

Thats the thing. If you're trying to separate the playerbase. By calling them PVEers youre doing it wrong.

They are PVPing. And theres not that many "pvpers" as you guys put it. Because of the ship builds and what the modes offer in risk vs reward when it comes to effecting other commanders.

Once again, its not optionally. Its optimally.

There lies the issue. And that why I believe it will be changed.

 

[Mohrgan]

Thats the thing. If you're trying to separate the playerbase. By calling them PVEers youre doing it wrong.

They are PVPing. And theres not that many "pvpers" as you guys put it. Because of the ship builds and what the modes offer in risk vs reward when it comes to effecting other commanders.

Once again, its not optionally. Its optimally.

There lies the issue. And that why I believe it will be changed.

PvP is, and has been, used to indicate players fighting, directly, with other players. Trying to urge the definition to something else is useless. Do you see BGS threads being moved to the PvP Sub-Forum. FD doesn't even recognize your assertion.

All of the game's Modes and Mechanics are completely available to each and every player. It is their individual choice to decide what environment they play in. You have that choice too. Your choice does not, and shouldn't have any, bearing on what environment other players enjoy. Make your choices, and leave others alone to do the same.

 

[Lestenio]

And theres not that many "pvpers" as you guys put it. Because of the ship builds and what the modes offer in risk vs reward when it comes to effecting other commanders.

Incorrect. I don't PvP because I have no interest in PvP.
My lack of PvP interest has nothing to do with, modes, fear, risk, rewards, engineering, ships or anything else for that matter.

I'm not suddenly going to have a desire for PvP just because you wall off some of the game

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Mohgran and Kalie - you two sure like appeals to authority to bolster your arguments.

Know what that tells me?

Y'all see the writing on the wall and are runnin' scared.

 

[Roybe]

So I went through your list and just about debunked the lot, and the come back is: you're not being honest, exploration has definitely been evolved and developed. Mental note, next time I'll just go: "no it hasn't". Less effort, same result.

Well, it was nice discussing this with you. See you next week

You missed passenger missions...those are for exploration also!

 

[WorldsGreatestForumDad]

Incorrect. I don't PvP because I have no interest in PvP.
My lack of PvP interest has nothing to do with, modes, fear, risk, rewards, engineering, ships or anything else for that matter.

I'm not suddenly going to have a desire for PvP just because you wall off some of the game

You're missing the point. People are intentionally using the modes so they dont have to PVP against other commanders.

This however wouldnt be an issue if it wasnt effecting other commanders.

And no im not wrong. Ship builds make a huge difference here.

Go take a trade cutter meant for solo and private for min maxing cargo or passengers. +++++ Missions. You dont need shields or anything.

PvP is, and has been, used to indicate players fighting, directly, with other players. Trying to urge the definition to something else is useless. Do you see BGS threads being moved to the PvP Sub-Forum. FD doesn't even recognize your assertion.

All of the game's Modes and Mechanics are completely available to each and every player. It is their individual choice to decide what environment they play in. You have that choice too. Your choice does not, and shouldn't have any, bearing on what environment other players enjoy. Make your choices, and leave others alone to do the same.

Nope. I here to make sure PVP gets its meaning within the BGS and powerplay. Again this comes down to effectively attacking other players. PVP is PVP. Do it all or none at all.

Not a little because its convenient.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

That would be described by our guidance councilors as a character flaw and a pretty major one at that.

This line, right here, for one.

What a stupid thing to say.