Exploration Ship Choices will be taking an arrow to the knee in Update 3.1

I am vehemently against any increase of jump range because it is just a means for fdev to continue to leave the game empty of actual gameplay.

Players travel the vast majority of the time they are playing elite and it is an activity completely devoid of any kind of gameplay.

Thats inexcusable and playing into it by removing it defeats the purpose of the entire premise of this 1:1 Galaxy, much less any remaining believable aspect of the in game universe.
 

verminstar

Banned
I cant see any issues but then again, thats the perception of someone who remembers being passionate about exploration before engineers even existed. I do still to this day consider my last spell in the black as one my greatest achievements in this game and that was 5 whole months in a sub 20ly T9. Im cruising round the bubble right now with twice that and thats average.

Fer me, any ship with damned near any jump range could be considered an exploration ship...its not the ship that makes an explorer though, but thats a different topic altogether. Thats just a matter of personal taste and as fer losing my mind going jumpjumpjump fer 3 hours straight? Sweetheart, my mind was lost a long long time ago, this is just practice. Some players cant do it...some can but thats cool...some players can pvp and others cant, its just a different way of playing the same game is all ^
 
Who has a Class 5 slot doing nothing in their ship now? Even a Class 4? ....... You've really got to want that extra FSD boost to sacrifice whatever else you are using the slots for.

But that seems to be the direction FD wants to take us - because they took away the random engineering "adjustments" they now have to include something else to vary the performance among ships.

Choice or Confusion? I suspect both, and it will take a while for us to get used to this implementation. Any of us out exploring won't have access to it anyway, so the choice is moot.

The priority for Explorers is an Exploration Suite, which can be filled with Scanners ..... perhaps with more choices when 3.4 drops, taking up One Small Slot.
 
... And this is good, as it makes outfitting decisions more important and makes different player's ships less "the same" in much better way than random engineering - it allows ship to reflect owner's personal preferences/priorities in a way. ASP/DBX cannot fit everything potentially useful since they added repair limpets... now, there will also be a choice either to leave things as is, or to add booster and loose something else.. and there is nothing wrong with it...

Except that it does the opposite. Everyone ends up flying Annies, Vetties or Cuties. The idea is "blaze your own trail" not "blaze your own trail, but hey you'll need an Annie." I think the devs need to sit down and balance internal slots as part of this Beyond QoL work - ultimately why shouldn't I be able to do the same stuff in a sidewinder as in an anaconda - sure you're going to lose a fight or not haul as much cargo but for everything else arbitrary constraints don't really matter.

As for FSD range, anything above/around 20Ly is fine and unless you're going to the edge of the galaxy FSD range improvement is masturbation.
 
I don't have the spare slots even in my explore conda....I like packing back up plans....2 SRV, AFM, repair controller. I am going out for weeks or months. I am still over 63ly range with all that on board. Those modules sounds like combat kitted ship oriented gap fillers......and yet, what min/maxxed combat ship has room? mine don't. As far as I can tell, anyone using them is sacrificing something for a little extra range. That may even be the point, but honestly, my combat vette at 20ly is plenty fine.
 
My own exploration preferences aren't much bothered by this issue.

I never bother with an AMFU for general exploration, even crossing the entire width of the galaxy I never suffered any amount of damage that needed it.

If I was doing a specialist build, with intention to specifically reach a location that wasn't accessible without a Guardian Booster... then I'd include it and deal with the tradeoffs for being specialist. In this case, maybe still I drop the AFMU, and limit neutron boosts to those mandatory for reaching that specific target location for which this ship has been built. Then repair the damage from those boosts when I get back home.
 
I just wish they would cut the Anaconda's range by about a third. It's the "end game" ship for explorers as it allows them to take as much as they want and still have a better jump range then an explorer rated vessel. Way too late for that nerf though :(
 
I just wish they would cut the Anaconda's range by about a third. It's the "end game" ship for explorers as it allows them to take as much as they want and still have a better jump range then an explorer rated vessel. Way too late for that nerf though :(

The 'Conda is ED easy-mode, which is why (some) people like it.
I'll happily give up access to the few thousand stars that only a gimped warship can reach and spend my time exploring the other 400 billion :D
 
Jump range is irrelevant these days - the FSD boost is probably more useful to bubble traders than explorers.

Any ship in the game jumps far enough to be a practical explorer.



If you want a long range jumper then you're not really exploring.
You just want to get from a to b quicker, and that's OK.


The only time i almost ran out of fuel I was jumping into a field with minimal fuel able stars, and not understanding how to turn on only the right type of stars in my galaxy map for fueling.
Luckily i had one immediately to the side of me on what was going to be my last hop. The fuel rats almost got a call.
 
My opinions are kind of all over the place on this.

My first, knee-jerk, reaction is that I don't really care about the FSD Booster for exploration.
My AspX does around 60Ly and I just use FSD injections as required to get where I want to go.

It'd be nice to have an extra toy aboard my exploration ship but it's not necessary.
If anything, I'll probably just fit FSD boosters to ships as and when I to use them and notice there's a redundant slot somewhere.

More generally, though, it does irk me a bit that there are toys available for exploration ships and I can't fit them.
We've already got repair limpets as well (which require two slots to function) so it's already getting to the point where the "only" choice for exploration is the Annie - if you want ALL the toys to make your exploration ship self-sufficient.
And that's before the Q3 update, which might bring even more toys for explorers to play with.

And then there's the issue of ship loadouts in general.
It also irks me that neither of the ships with "Explorer" in the name aren't actually optimised for.... exploring.
The core of exploration equipment is a pair of C1 modules; the ADS and the DSS.
Neither ship is fitted with 2 x C1 slots.
The other thing which is almost fundamental to exploration is an SRV, which comes in C2 and C4 sizes.
The AspX doesn't have any C4 slots and neither ship has any C2 slots available once you've fitted the C1 core exploration modules into their existing C2 slots.

To be clear, I don't just mean this from an "I want more slots" POV.

It makes no sense from an in-universe perspective that ships designed for exploration wouldn't be compatible with the equipment needed for that job.
It's kind of like building an ocean-going research vessel which doesn't cater for 19" rack units or standard shipping containers.

I would really, really, like to see FDev provide different variants of all sorts of ships in return for doing things for a faction - and the AspX/DBX are good examples of what I'd like to see.
Set it up so that, after delivering a heap of exploration data to a specific faction, you can do exploration missions for them and ultimately gain access to a variant of a ship which has slots optimised FOR exploration.

And then there's the issue of utility modules and hardpoints.
Most explorers probably bung a heat-sink on their ship and fit a mining laser and, perhaps, a PA in order to dump fuel (because that's still the ONLY way to actually dump fuel, eh FDev?) and there's nothing else worth fitting in util' slots or hardpoints.

If we are getting new exploration toys in Q3, I really, really, hope FDev consider making some of them util/hardpoint fitments.
Again, it's not just a case of "needing" to be able to fit more stuff.
Players like adding toys to their ships and offering people new stuff but then forcing them to ignore most of it while their hardpoints and util slots remain empty is annoying.
It also, once again, forces players into opting for an Annie for exploration instead of one of the ships DESIGNED for, y'know... exploration.
 
It also irks me that neither of the ships with "Explorer" in the name aren't actually optimised for.... exploring.
The core of exploration equipment is a pair of C1 modules; the ADS and the DSS.
Neither ship is fitted with 2 x C1 slots.
The other thing which is almost fundamental to exploration is an SRV, which comes in C2 and C4 sizes.
The AspX doesn't have any C4 slots and neither ship has any C2 slots available once you've fitted the C1 core exploration modules into their existing C2 slots.

To be clear, I don't just mean this from an "I want more slots" POV.

It makes no sense from an in-universe perspective that ships designed for exploration wouldn't be compatible with the equipment needed for that job.
It's kind of like building an ocean-going research vessel which doesn't cater for 19" rack units or standard shipping containers.

I'm just gonna point out that the Ford Mustang is not optimized to be a horse, and the Kia Pride is not optimized to be parade.
Just because a ship manufacturer chose to name the ship 'Explorer' doesn't mean that it has to be perfect for exploration.
 
Never bothered with the AFMU. Exploration isn't really about jump range anyway. Not for me. As long as you have 30+ LY you can do most of the galaxy. For me it is all about patience and detail. I don't want to get anywhere fast. I have an SRV to enjoy the view.

The new FSD booster helps people who just want to get to Sag A or Colonia as quickly as possible. That is not really exploration.

...Or the people that want to get to a certain part of the Galaxy quickly before they start their exploration. Everyone has their own way. Remember, number of systems visited/hr is the same, whether your jump range is 20LY, or 200LY. And with the entire ED Galaxy never likely to be fully explored, who are any of us to judge? An unexplored system is an unexplored system, be it 5LY from the last star system you were in, or 300LY.



Z...
 
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It also, once again, forces players into opting for an Annie for exploration instead of one of the ships DESIGNED for, y'know... exploration.
Which highlights another issue - why do not we have large exploration ship? Not multipurpose anaconda (or asp for that matter), but ship that is specifically designed for exploration and is comparable to conda/cutter/vette in size.
So that it is not anaconda or anything else choice, but more like big exploration ship with all the toys, or small exploration ship with all the advantages of small ship but not enough space to carry everything.
 
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So I like the concept of the Guardian FSD Boosters. I even like that they add a flat amount of light years rather than a percentage of optimal mass, this helps to prevent "jump range creep" of the long range ships outreaching the less capable ships from the perspective of the overall fleet.

However, the way the Guardian FSD Boosters are being implemented, as five internal modules ranging in sizes from class 1 to class 5 (in increments of 2ly range each) leaves much to be desired in my opinion. This design is serving to benefit large ships much more than the small and medium ships simply due to number and size of internals versus the number of module types now in the game. For example, combat players who fly ships like the Vulture, FDL, Viper, DBS, or Chieftain will be hard pressed to fit one of these into their ships seeing as they all only have 4 or 5 internals to work with.

Now lets talk about deep space explorers. Most explorers currently fly with six modules installed in their ships:

  • ADS - Used to scan with.
  • DSS - Earns extra credits and reveals materials present on planets.
  • SRV - Used to drive on planets and collect materials.
  • Shield - Saves hull when landing on planets, also can save the ship when interdicted.
  • AFMU - Needed for neutron jumping or just to fix the ship due to mishaps, especially canopy repairs.
  • Fuel scoop - Needed to refuel.

Sure some people explore with less than this but they give up an aspect of exploration or safety in order to do so. Fly without an SRV and you can’t collect jump mats or drive on planets. Forego the AFMU and you can’t use neutron jumps nor repair module damage. Don’t take a shield and watch your hull gradually diminish over time due to planet landings, not to mention how you put yourself at great risk every time you approach inhabited space. The majority of explorers currently fly ships with at least six internals for these reasons. An awful lot of players explore in ships like the Anaconda and Cutter because they can also bring repair limpets and mining gear too.

The FSD Boosters will add one more internal to this mix, and if you fly a ship with less than seven internals then you will need to either ignore boosters entirely or give up one of the above six modules.

How exactly does this impact the Elite fleet with regards to ship choices for explorers? Here is a list of all ships in the game sorted first by jump range and then by number of internals:

https://i.imgur.com/NNM25XI.jpg

The ships highlighted in tan have 5 or less internals each (11 ships), the ships highlighted in orange have 6 internals (9 ships), and ships not highlighted have 7 or more internals (13 ships) and shouldn't be negatively impacted by the addition of one more module. It's no coincidence that the most popular exploration ships are in the top half of this list as they have the best jump ranges in the game, and about half of those have six internals each. Ships like the DBX, Orca, Dolphin, Courier, Keelback, Asp Scout, Viper IV, and Cobra III will all not be able to carry an FSD booster while also carrying the six modules listed above. Their options will be:

  1. Ignore the new FSD booster and not bother with it.
  2. Lose the SRV and give up driving on planets.
  3. Drop the shields and risk hull damage from landings and getting blown up upon return.
  4. Forego the AFMU and give up neutron boosts.

This scenario will greatly lessen the selection of ships explorers can choose from if they want to fly prepared and optimized for everything they can. It will only serve to further funnel explorers into Anacondas and Asp Explorers. The T6 might get more popular due to the FSD boosters, and now that the T7 had its range improved it also might start getting flown more, but a lot of popular small and medium exploration ships are going to be hurt by a lack of internal space.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, but I feel like these boosters should be utility modules instead of internal modules. For a few reasons:

  1. All five sizes are exactly 1.3 tons in mass each, so it seems odd that they increase in size and capability but not mass.
  2. Ships for all roles could much more easily spare one utility slot than one internal due to how many modules already crowd the game.
  3. Making the best range booster a class 5 slot is only serving to make the larger ships even better than the smaller ships, and I feel like it should be the opposite, meaning I wish the boosters performed better for the smaller ships and less for the larger ones who already have a plethora of positives in their favor. I think new features like these should strengthen ship diversity rather than further funnel everyone into the large expensive "end game" ships.

In short, I love the idea, but do not care for the execution, as it's only serving to limit player choice with regards to ship selection. I wish these boosters were just utility modules instead.

I think some of the jump ranges are a bit out if they are supposed to be unengineered.
For example the python if you have everything empty and light or smaller core internals can only jump 26.6ly max not 30.8ly.
 
Who has a Class 5 slot doing nothing in their ship now? Even a Class 4? ....... You've really got to want that extra FSD boost to sacrifice whatever else you are using the slots for.

But that seems to be the direction FD wants to take us - because they took away the random engineering "adjustments" they now have to include something else to vary the performance among ships.

Choice or Confusion? I suspect both, and it will take a while for us to get used to this implementation. Any of us out exploring won't have access to it anyway, so the choice is moot.

The priority for Explorers is an Exploration Suite, which can be filled with Scanners ..... perhaps with more choices when 3.4 drops, taking up One Small Slot.

Exploration suite is all I ask for. So you can put your scanners in one slot.
 
More generally, though, it does irk me a bit that there are toys available for exploration ships and I can't fit them.
We've already got repair limpets as well (which require two slots to function) so it's already getting to the point where the "only" choice for exploration is the Annie - if you want ALL the toys to make your exploration ship self-sufficient.
And that's before the Q3 update, which might bring even more toys for explorers to play with.
....

Again, it's not just a case of "needing" to be able to fit more stuff.
Players like adding toys to their ships and offering people new stuff but then forcing them to ignore most of it while their hardpoints and util slots remain empty is annoying.
It also, once again, forces players into opting for an Annie for exploration instead of one of the ships DESIGNED for, y'know... exploration.

Exactly. Adding FSD boosters to the fray is only going to amplify that even moreso.

For example, there are currently 2,315 commanders signed up for the DWE2 later this year. Arguably all deep space explorers since the trip will be over 130,000 lys in distance. Here is the current ship breakdown for the signups:

ALNxSGY.jpg


So 41% of everyone is flying Anacondas, 32% are in Asps, 8% are flying the DBX, 4% are taking Cutters, and the remaining 15% are spread out amongst the other 29 ship types. That's outrageously unbalanced towards the Anaconda and the Asp X, and this is before the FSD boosters are even a thing. After 3.1 I can guarantee you that the 181 DBX number will drop by a large margin, probably at least half, maybe more, due to lacking internal space. Two ships dominate over 75% of the roster. And this is a common trend among all exploration expeditions, it happens all the fracking time. Anyone who says that jump range and internal space doesn't matter to explorers isn't looking at the statistics.

I'd just like for the game's development to support a bit of diversity instead of funneling everyone into the same two ships. I'm tired of exploration expeditions feeling like Anaconda & Asp Explorer conventions, and I don't much like changes which will make the trend even stronger.
 
Exactly. Adding FSD boosters to the fray is only going to amplify that even moreso.

For example, there are currently 2,315 commanders signed up for the DWE2 later this year. Arguably all deep space explorers since the trip will be over 130,000 lys in distance. Here is the current ship breakdown for the signups:

https://i.imgur.com/ALNxSGY.jpg

So 41% of everyone is flying Anacondas, 32% are in Asps, 8% are flying the DBX, 4% are taking Cutters, and the remaining 15% are spread out amongst the other 29 ship types. That's outrageously unbalanced towards the Anaconda and the Asp X, and this is before the FSD boosters are even a thing. After 3.1 I can guarantee you that the 181 DBX number will drop by a large margin, probably at least half, maybe more, due to lacking internal space. Two ships dominate over 75% of the roster. And this is a common trend among all exploration expeditions, it happens all the fracking time. Anyone who says that jump range and internal space doesn't matter to explorers isn't looking at the statistics.

I'd just like for the game's development to support a bit of diversity instead of funneling everyone into the same two ships. I'm tired of exploration expeditions feeling like Anaconda & Asp Explorer conventions, and I don't much like changes which will make the trend even stronger.

I don't think the stats support your argument against the FSD booster, since 3/4 of commanders who are going on what is EXPLICITLY a long distance tour are using AspX and 'Condas.

I'll break it down:

1. DWE2 and the like are a small subset of exploration trips, focused on long distance and a fixed schedule. I've got 900kLYs under my belt and I've never been further that 40k from Sol - not everybody explores by going as far as possible.

2. By adding module that gives a flat (not percentage) boost to jump range it actually opens up these trips to a wider range of ships. You want to.do it in a 'Vette? Here's 10LY extra range. T-7? Cobra IV? The FSD booster gives about 25% boost to each of them and makes much more of a difference to the experience than it does to a 70LY ship.

3. The module/utility argument only really affects the DBX and the impact is only 2LY, so it's not significant.
 
Exactly. Adding FSD boosters to the fray is only going to amplify that even moreso.

For example, there are currently 2,315 commanders signed up for the DWE2 later this year. Arguably all deep space explorers since the trip will be over 130,000 lys in distance. Here is the current ship breakdown for the signups:

https://i.imgur.com/ALNxSGY.jpg

So 41% of everyone is flying Anacondas, 32% are in Asps, 8% are flying the DBX, 4% are taking Cutters, and the remaining 15% are spread out amongst the other 29 ship types. That's outrageously unbalanced towards the Anaconda and the Asp X, and this is before the FSD boosters are even a thing. After 3.1 I can guarantee you that the 181 DBX number will drop by a large margin, probably at least half, maybe more, due to lacking internal space. Two ships dominate over 75% of the roster. And this is a common trend among all exploration expeditions, it happens all the fracking time. Anyone who says that jump range and internal space doesn't matter to explorers isn't looking at the statistics.

I'd just like for the game's development to support a bit of diversity instead of funneling everyone into the same two ships. I'm tired of exploration expeditions feeling like Anaconda & Asp Explorer conventions, and I don't much like changes which will make the trend even stronger.




I fly the asp for a couple of reasons exploring, but mainly for that view out the wrap around cockpit.

pBq6Tze.jpg
 
OP, I agree. The booster should be a utility module. I'd take it as a hardpoint, since most of my ships carry no weapons.

As it stands, it's too grindy to get one and I don't have a slot in my AspX that isn't already filled with something I'm not willing to give up. FD keeps adding new modules, but our ships are already slot-constrained, except for a very few like the Anaconda, which I can't stand to fly (due to the pitiful cockpit view).

We need more slots, a slot divider, a revamp of our ship computer (to add its own slots to hold scanners, docking module, etc.) or something else along these lines, to free up slots, so that we can actually use all the new toys FD keeps adding.
 
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so they regularly ask for things to become utilities instead of internals ("make ADS/DSS utility" threads were pretty frequent at some point), basically to gain additional free internals.
...

Actually, I like that idea, for things that are basically circuit board size it really makes no sense they need an entire slot - each.
Or even better, make them an optional upgrade when buying the ship for a couple hundred extra credits that's built into the console (like buying a car with optional Bluetooth accessories).

#respectsmallerships
 
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