Exploration Ship Choices will be taking an arrow to the knee in Update 3.1

[Bunkerkind Anni]

Actually I think the issue stems less with the addition of the new FSD boost module and more to do with something that's been in the game since the beginning.

the Discovery Scanner and the Detailed Surface Scanner, they should honestly not be internals, they should be the ones in the Utility slots.

The reasoning is that every other "scanner", KWS, Cargo, Wake, Xeno, etc are all Utility Slots, the Dis Scanner and the DSS are the only scanners that use internals. The Dis Scanner needs to be brought in line with other scanners and made into a utility slot. the DSS should be a sub module of the Dis Scanner because it needs to use a Dis scanner to work, so it should install as a sub module of said scanner.

I'd also like to see other types of sub module scanners (geological, alien detecting, etc.), and more expensive versions of the Discovery scanner that have additional sub mod slots.

By bringing the scanners in line that frees up two module slots making room in the optional slots and putting them in Utility.

you know, i was happy back in the early days, when they released the DBS and DBX with 4 utility slots.
my Viper couldn't fit everything required for efficient bounty hunts: chaff, KWS and heat sink (did overheat often...)

discovery scanner is still a module in assassination mission fits, just bugged currently. putting that into an utility slot would suck even more.
it already sucks that i have to fit xeno scanner into an utility slot, just to identfy thargoids.
why is there no xeno scanner and exloration variant for the default sensors we put into our ships?

 

[Siranui]

This is how you solve problems like this.

If you call 'making choices' a problem, then sure. It's not a problem though.

That said, utility slots would make sense *if this was intended for explorers*, because after a sink launcher and maybe a wake scanner if you're super-keen, explorers tend to have spare utility slots.

 

[Drazkul]

Exactly. Adding FSD boosters to the fray is only going to amplify that even moreso.

For example, there are currently 2,315 commanders signed up for the DWE2 later this year. Arguably all deep space explorers since the trip will be over 130,000 lys in distance. Here is the current ship breakdown for the signups:

https://i.imgur.com/ALNxSGY.jpg

So 41% of everyone is flying Anacondas, 32% are in Asps, 8% are flying the DBX, 4% are taking Cutters, and the remaining 15% are spread out amongst the other 29 ship types. That's outrageously unbalanced towards the Anaconda and the Asp X, and this is before the FSD boosters are even a thing. After 3.1 I can guarantee you that the 181 DBX number will drop by a large margin, probably at least half, maybe more, due to lacking internal space. Two ships dominate over 75% of the roster. And this is a common trend among all exploration expeditions, it happens all the fracking time. Anyone who says that jump range and internal space doesn't matter to explorers isn't looking at the statistics.

I'd just like for the game's development to support a bit of diversity instead of funneling everyone into the same two ships. I'm tired of exploration expeditions feeling like Anaconda & Asp Explorer conventions, and I don't much like changes which will make the trend even stronger.

For me the guardian FSD booster is actually making me think of using a Corvette instead of my Conda as I reckon i can make it get at least 40ly's in it (ideally I'd love 42+ so I could take it up to Altum Sagatarii prime

 

[HunterzKillerz]

Make it a utility module with 20% range boost 10% fuel efficiency, come on fdev get something right this year.

 

[Swa]

FSD boosters benefit all ships of the game, nor matter the role. People choose to fly out with everything possible but that’s their choice, I personally still take ships exploring with a fuel scoop and just scanners just fine. People design ships any way they want and those that want to have every mod in their ship will do that anyway with out the new boosters. Adding boosters don’t ruin the game in any aspect...it’s the mindset of the players that leads to this...instead of complaining about a new mod ruining things step outside your safety blanket and try less...you don’t need to land on planets while exploring, that’s how we did things before horizons and how many still do it now. All the stats of who’s using what ship just shows people only concentrate on range and having every available module.

 

[CMDR_Halceon]

Limpets - changed to limpet racks
Advanced/detailed scanners - changed to scanner racks

This is how you solve problems like this.

Yes, please!

 

[LP Garnell]

Actually I think the issue stems less with the addition of the new FSD boost module and more to do with something that's been in the game since the beginning.

the Discovery Scanner and the Detailed Surface Scanner, they should honestly not be internals, they should be the ones in the Utility slots.

The reasoning is that every other "scanner", KWS, Cargo, Wake, Xeno, etc are all Utility Slots, the Dis Scanner and the DSS are the only scanners that use internals. The Dis Scanner needs to be brought in line with other scanners and made into a utility slot. the DSS should be a sub module of the Dis Scanner because it needs to use a Dis scanner to work, so it should install as a sub module of said scanner.

I'd also like to see other types of sub module scanners (geological, alien detecting, etc.), and more expensive versions of the Discovery scanner that have additional sub mod slots.

By bringing the scanners in line that frees up two module slots making room in the optional slots and putting them in Utility.

This makes much more sense to me than proposing making the FSD booster as a utility slot, which makes no sense whatsover from ship construction standpoint.

All the exisiting utility slots NEED access to the skin of the spacecraft to do their jobs. And simply require power and in some cases data connections (scanners). An FSD booster appears to be an integral part of the drive itself, or at least an additional stage, and is part of the fuel consumption process. It's not some addon computer that alters fuel consumption. It NEEDS to be an internal. Despite the OPs desire to fit it on ships where he can spare a utility slot but not an internal.

And yes, all this new guardian tech appears to be aimed at warfare, not explo. To say that exploration is going to take it in the knee is a bit misleading. There is no nerfing of ANY exploration capabilities. If anything, you can stick this on an Annie and go even further.

 

[Mengy]

Also your list is old.. get a newer one.. for example my ASP can do 52 LYs.

The list is taken straight from Coriolis, using stock empty D-rated ships with A rated stock FSD's. Engineering can increase all of their jump ranges, but that doesn't change the pecking order, except for the DBX and Anaconda switching places.

Actually I think the issue stems less with the addition of the new FSD boost module and more to do with something that's been in the game since the beginning.

the Discovery Scanner and the Detailed Surface Scanner, they should honestly not be internals, they should be the ones in the Utility slots.

The reasoning is that every other "scanner", KWS, Cargo, Wake, Xeno, etc are all Utility Slots, the Dis Scanner and the DSS are the only scanners that use internals. The Dis Scanner needs to be brought in line with other scanners and made into a utility slot. the DSS should be a sub module of the Dis Scanner because it needs to use a Dis scanner to work, so it should install as a sub module of said scanner.

I made a suggestion thread to change the Discovery Scanner to a utility slot back in 2015 for these very reasons! Frontier didn't like the idea, even though every other discovery scanner IS a utility slot AND weighs exactly the same 1.3T mass:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ner-change-from-internal-slot-to-utility-slot

Actually, this same old change of moving the DSS to the utility it should be would completely alleviate my concerns about the boosters being an internal slot...

 

[EvoBeardy]

I do get a good chuckle out of the forums sometimes...
'Combat' folk plea for some better jump range on the Corvette or Gunship etc and 'Explorers' are like "it's not meant for Exploration, it's a Combat ship, suck it up!".
FDev release something that's clearly catered towards bringing poop ranged ships closer to suck less, and 'Explorers' still complain...

you know, i was happy back in the early days, when they released the DBS and DBX with 4 utility slots.
discovery scanner is still a module in assassination mission fits, just bugged currently. putting that into an utility slot would suck even more.

Totally agree. If they went to Utility, I think ships with 2 or less need an extra, dedicated trading ships also need an extra.

For me the guardian FSD booster is actually making me think of using a Corvette instead of my Conda as I reckon i can make it get at least 40ly's in it (ideally I'd love 42+ so I could take it up to Altum Sagatarii prime

Depending on loadout, 32ly is attainable from a stripped out engineered Corvette, I'm unsure if the GBooster comes with additional weight (not checked), but 42ly should be doable.

Make it a utility module with 20% range boost 10% fuel efficiency, come on fdev get something right this year.

Wuht... Unsure if serious.

An FSD booster appears to be an integral part of the drive itself, or at least an additional stage, and is part of the fuel consumption process. It's not some addon computer that alters fuel consumption. It NEEDS to be an internal. Despite the OPs desire to fit it on ships where he can spare a utility slot but not an internal.

And yes, all this new guardian tech appears to be aimed at warfare, not explo. To say that exploration is going to take it in the knee is a bit misleading. There is no nerfing of ANY exploration capabilities. If anything, you can stick this on an Annie and go even further.

Yup, GBooster appears to be a direct injection system, this wouldn't make sense being an external Utility mount...

The only REAL issue here, is that it pushes the Anaconda further ahead of everything else.
I really don't understand the mindset of people here, any other game and Devs would've killed the utter HorseShip that the Anaconda is.
It doesn't NEED 75ly jump range.

If anything I think the magical Hull on the Anaconda should make it incompatible with certain Guardian Tech, FSD booster rips the Hull apart from the inside out, I don't know.

The fact there's a single ship that's imbalanced and forcing other ships to try and come in line, but in doing so makes said ship more imbalanced, astounds me.

The fact we're pretty limited on ship numbers also needs to be addressed.

There are too big a gap between niches because there are too few ships.

Also something NEEDS to be done regarding the scanner situation. Either move to utility, give ships that require them another Class 1 slot, make multi-rack mounts for them or something that won't screw ships like the DBX over.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Why is there this continual and ridiculous push to balance smaller ships with large ones? It's unfathomable! Simply put, the large ships cost more and are... Shock, horror: Larger! Therefore they are better at what they do! Tl;dr: deal with it.

Pretty much.

 

[Arindor]

The list is taken straight from Coriolis, using stock empty D-rated ships with A rated stock FSD's. Engineering can increase all of their jump ranges, but that doesn't change the pecking order, except for the DBX and Anaconda switching places.



I made a suggestion thread to change the Discovery Scanner to a utility slot back in 2015 for these very reasons! Frontier didn't like the idea, even though every other discovery scanner IS a utility slot AND weighs exactly the same 1.3T mass:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ner-change-from-internal-slot-to-utility-slot


https://i.imgur.com/jTVnB7S.jpg


Actually, this same old change of moving the DSS to the utility it should be would completely alleviate my concerns about the boosters being an internal slot...

Can't rep you again but absolutely spot on as usual.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I again want to know a good reason why starter ships should perform as good or better than more expensive ship options. If that were to be the case then I might as well never fly one of the big three again.

 

[Eloy]

Another 2 cents: I am not interested in any of the tharg-stuff and I hope they don´t force us to get the stuff because of a fullscale war. I´d rather go to Colonia or wherever.


Three more things:
Maybe the DSS and ADS are too large and complex to fit in a utility slot ... remember what these sensors have to accomplish (wide range, massive amount of data).

Coming back to the bubble with a shieldless explorer is less of a problem when you search for a rim system with a station <20ls from the main star (EDDB) and outfit your bubble-shield there. That´s what I did.
In addition you could filter system security (ingame) to high.

I don´t need a SRV: I can hover any planet wherever I want so I don´t see the point (I don´t need mats), so I don´t even need a shield in case for touchdown damages ...

 

[Ddraig]

To the Op. I find all this nonsensical.
You have no obligation to use any of these modules, exploration does not change at all because of this. Furthermore, most exploration able ships already have huge jump range as it is, ridiculously so when engineering is added to the mix. With the old system, my Corvette was stuck in the 19 ly. Now it does 22 ly. I haven't done any new mod on my Anaconda or DBX simply because I do not see the point because both ships already jump well over 50ly.

This tech is worth for the Corvette or the FDL if you will. Or for people who wants to max out things, and they are not majority. You are not part of the majority.
So, please stop with the doom and gloom.

 

[Dan Bender]

I already explore in a DBX with only an ADS, DSS, fuel scoop, and an SRV. The other two internals are reserved for a FTLC and a cargo rack for limpets. I don’t need a shield or an AFMU, and I sure as heck ain’t gonna need some weird alien jump booster for what I do.

 

[Suvi Anwar]

The thread title is clear, the topic is about exploration ships that are not really utility restricted, so if you consider the module an exploration tool, he has a point.
I am not convinced it IS supposed to be an exploration tool, it's quite possible it is just a tool for slogging your big combat vessels around the bubble or between the Thargoid war zones.

The biggest issue is that FDev isn't saying "what" the module was intended to do. And since they are not saying what the intention was, every group is going to assume it was for them and cry foul.

In my mind, this was developed by one of the guys making things easier for us to deal with the Thargoid threat. This infers that any of these "Guardian" enhanced modules is "intended" to be most useful in fighting/defending against Thargoids. BUT, that doesn't mean they need to be useless for anything else. That usually is the case though (AX/Guardian weapons, anyone?).

---
I'm somewhat sure the 105-125% fuel increase was a misplaced decimal point, which is why it is broken.
However, I do agree that once it's useful again, it really needs to go into a utility slot. But, if it turns out the intention was to aid warships in getting to the theater of battle, they should only allow it to into a military slot. But, again, we don't know "what" the intention is, the folks at FDev are not communicating it. It may just be that they didn't intend anything other than a way to get a little more range for any ship, evidenced by the class sizes all the way from 1 to 5.

Again, we don't know, and all we can do is speculate, and in some cases (which has become very evident) assume it's intended to help with what our own agenda needs.

 

[MrFailfactory]

I don't really think this changes much for Explorers who prefer the Anaconda.

I think it changes things quite significantly for those who would prefer to use a Cutter, Corvette, T-10, Clipper, or Python for Exploration. All Trade ships can benefit from these boosters, should the individual Commander in question value that over the maximum cargo capacity (re: choice). It also allows people to move their Combat ships more quickly, and (maybe) wait on a single module transfer, rather than using a taxi, and transferring the entire ship.

Seems like a win for a large portion of the playerbase to me, once they are fixed.

The only "Explorers" taking an arrow to the knee are the ones who cannot get past jump range and scoop speed, Mengy.

Riôt

 

[Mengy]

The only "Explorers" taking an arrow to the knee are the ones who cannot get past jump range and scoop speed, Mengy.

Riôt

I agree. Which, despite what some people say, is actually an awful lot of explorers. Again:

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I agree. Which, despite what some people say, is actually an awful lot of explorers. Again:

https://i.imgur.com/ALNxSGY.jpg

No, proves nothing about the whole 'explorers' category.
It only shows that those Cmdrs who are going on a long distance trip have opted to use ships with long jump ranges - which is hardly a surprise.

If every single one of those Cmdrs not using a 'Conda decide to switch to 'Condas with FSD Boost fitted because of the extra 10 LY they can get, then you may have a point, but your data doesn't show this.

It actually shows the opposite of what your OP claims - that the booster is irrelevant to future exploration ship selection, since players are ALREADY limiting THEMSELVES to 2 ships.

 

[Vardaugas]

You know, putting the DDS, ADS and FSD boost into utilities will cripple any ship that isn't a dedicated explorer and may actually need those utiliities for things like shield boosters, wake scanners or xeno scanners. Got to look at a bigger picture, too, if you're looking for balance.