Don’t get me wrong - I like shields a lot: it was my primary reason for selecting the FDL as my main ship for combat. You’re right, I don’t play PvP but I’ve read a number of threads where folks have complained that non-combat ships with a ton of internal space for SCBs can outperform dedicated combat ships. For example: a Python vs a Chieftan. The Chief is supposed to be the combat focused ship and the Python a multi-role but the Python could load up on SCBs, making it VERY hard to kill. In PvE - no biggie, we’re supposed to be able to improve our ships to get an advantage over the NPCs but for PvP I can see why that becomes a problem. To “fix” PvP, I’ve read talk of “phasing PAs” and other weapons that ignore shields in order to give players who don’t “shield tank” an ability to fight against one. Personally, that seems the wrong fix - especially if the casual PvE player winds up having to deal with NPC pirates one shotting your power plant when your shields are up! I’d prefer SCBs be limited to 1 per ship or something like that.
FDL, needing a little advice from seasoned Cmdr's
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Don’t get me wrong - I like shields a lot: it was my primary reason for selecting the FDL as my main ship for combat. You’re right, I don’t play PvP but I’ve read a number of threads where folks have complained that non-combat ships with a ton of internal space for SCBs can outperform dedicated combat ships. For example: a Python vs a Chieftan. The Chief is supposed to be the combat focused ship and the Python a multi-role but the Python could load up on SCBs, making it VERY hard to kill. In PvE - no biggie, we’re supposed to be able to improve our ships to get an advantage over the NPCs but for PvP I can see why that becomes a problem. To “fix” PvP, I’ve read talk of “phasing PAs” and other weapons that ignore shields in order to give players who don’t “shield tank” an ability to fight against one. Personally, that seems the wrong fix - especially if the casual PvE player winds up having to deal with NPC pirates one shotting your power plant when your shields are up! I’d prefer SCBs be limited to 1 per ship or something like that.
...as regards *preference*. But as regards actual *survivability*, some are simply better than others, and sometimes - in case of DPS perhaps - mathematically provably so. That does not make some designs 'wrong' overall, but it does make them inferior in raw, top-trumps terms.
The thread is a discussion of FDL builds. If a contentious suggestion is aired, expect to defend it, or at least break down the logic behind it. I don't see what's contentious particularly in explaining to the OP the rationale of not-putting-point-defence-on-a-FDL. Nobody is going to learn anything useful if we all just provide a FDL build, without debate or explanation.
[I'm not terribly sure why someone would need to be a PVPer, use spreadsheets, not be a casual player to have come up with the idea that a ship with awesome shields and tons of utility slots could really optimise its shields really well in conjunction with this thing called a 'resist booster'. :S Can someone please explain?]
Nor I. I sympathise with the needs and desires of that community - as I do with most of our play-styles - but do not typically share them. Players are always going to take things to the max. If it wasn't SCBs it's be hull and module reinforcement. Heck: It was for a while, during the stealth meta. We aren't going to get away from it, but there are soft counters: shield-breaker torps, bleed-through engineer weapon effects, SCB buster rails and the absolute damage of PAs and ramming.
We can't fight the mechanics, and railing about them is just a way to increase blood pressure.
That is considering an A-Class power plant setting and for the record I was not even talking about using prismatics.
The simple fact of the matter is that while the FDL has 6 utility slots on them I would personally not recommend 4 shield boosters. Likewise, I would not recommend running an FDL with a full load of high-heat-load weapons.
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with running twin point defence, some may deem it excessive but I have run other ships of a similar size or smaller than the FDL and found a twin PD set up useful in a PvE setting especially when running against multiple NPCs. Sure I have been able to manage with only one PD, but I prefer to have two when both the option is available (spare utility slots based on build decisions in general) and the arcs are appropriate for it. In the specific case of my personal FDL build both are the case.
That is not to say there is anything fundamentally wrong with using 4 or more shield boosters either BUT IMO it is overkill and a waste of both utility slots and power. Two PD covering different arcs may seem to be overkill, but they barely use any power and can provide an effective counter to missiles regardless of the angle of attack IME.
IMO damage resistance above 0% is a nicety and not a necessity.
First off, this thread was asking a very specific question about the FDL regarding a specific weapon.
I did not "suggest my build" I stated my build as a matter of context, the subsequent "discussions" regarding my particular build have been highly aggressive and insulting in the main with some implying that my particular build choices are somehow wrong.
As for explaining my logic, I have done so numerous times already and despite that some have persisted with a certain arrogant approach to critiquing my "personal choices" as if my choices are wrong and their's is some how the ONLY right choice.
WRT Shields in general, shield levels above a certain point become pointless IME/IMO - where ships the size of the FDL are concerned around 500MJ should be more than adequate for PvE even with default resistance levels - especially when Bi-Weave shields are used. For ships around the size of the Anaconda I would set the Bi-Weave shield strength bar at 1000MJ. The ONLY case where stronger shields on the larger ships is really necessary in a PvE setting is if you plan to do Hi-G planetary landings. For the FDL, high resistances and shield strengths should not be needed if you are really any good at flying it.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
I run hammers and PAs on mine.
FdLs don't have a heat problem.
It makes little sense not to take advantage of a ship's obvious strengths.
FdLs don't have a heat problem.
It makes little sense not to take advantage of a ship's obvious strengths.
Big agree.
I have three different setups for mine. 5x Efficient Phasing PA's which is a mighty big surprise for people who scrimped on hull and instead went all in on shields; it can make 1000-1200 disappear in half a dozen passes with the shields still up. Then there's the 3x PA & 2x Rails which are pretty standard operating procedure whenever SCB stacked opponents are expected, then there is the 3x PA, 2x Packhound that I'm developing for the scenarios involving hulltanks. They're all pretty toasty, but totally manageable.
Depends on what you call a heat problem, the FDL is not as bad as some other ships perhaps but a lot depends on how a ship is both flown and equipped.
If you only ever fire weapons at close range then you may find heat less of an issue than someone who engages targets at longer ranges for example.
What do you stick on the huge HP in those cases Jason? The idea of 5x PAs or 3PAs and a couple of rails sounds like an entertaining loadout. It'd make a change from 5x fixed beams anyway.
Five PAs are super fun. I've got a set up with the two left mediums running Target Lock Break and Dispersal Shell then the right side mediums running that plus Thermal Conduit on the Huge. Alternate fire left and right when I want to make a big ship CMDR's day really annoying.
Makes for a nice 'sucker punch' too when the target is unawares (NPC or CMDR).
Five PAs are super fun. I've got a set up with the two left mediums running Target Lock Break and Dispersal Shell then the right side mediums running that plus Thermal Conduit on the Huge. Alternate fire left and right when I want to make a big ship CMDR's day really annoying.
Makes for a nice 'sucker punch' too when the target is unawares (NPC or CMDR).
Thermal Conduit. Ok that's a nice idea
Probably the only time it's actually workable. I like it.Thermal Conduit. Ok that's a nice idea
I'm pondering a short range PA with Thermal Conduit as well. We'll see. Totally experimental at this stage.
To put it another way, those that fire their weapons for longer bursts will find heat build up more of a concern.
As for the FDL not having a heat problem, why is everyone (those saying it does not have a hear problem) running efficient mods on the hotter weapons.
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Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
To put it another way, those that fire their weapons for longer bursts will find heat build up more of a concern.
As for the FDL not having a heat problem, why is everyone running efficient mods on the hotter weapons.
Do you think that is specific to the FdL?
It's not.
Heck, there isn't an efficient railgun mod to begin with.
LR is standard which increases power draw.
To put it another way, those that fire their weapons for longer bursts will find heat build up more of a concern.
As for the FDL not having a heat problem, why is everyone running efficient mods on the hotter weapons.
But the range isn't why you're generating more heat. Do you know why you have to fire your lasers longer when a target is farther away from you?
A little side bar on PA philosophy, for the players who are inexperienced but intrigued by the idea: when it comes to phasing it's "go big or go home." You don't go part way, in other words. If you don't want to go phasing, go with a combination of TLB/Dispersal/Oversised, TLB & Dispersal being the most important.
And when you have your PA's and your wondering how to hit things with them, remember, you don't rely on the velocity of the PA's themselves to land the salvo, but rather the combination of the velocity of the PA's and your ship; I had a lot of trouble with that at first, and was so frustrated that I almost gave them up until a friend of mine who'd just murdered me with them jokingly referred to the experience as "Force feeding me the plasma." And then it clicked.
Now go forth and let the murder commence, my burgeoning PA acolytes!
And when you have your PA's and your wondering how to hit things with them, remember, you don't rely on the velocity of the PA's themselves to land the salvo, but rather the combination of the velocity of the PA's and your ship; I had a lot of trouble with that at first, and was so frustrated that I almost gave them up until a friend of mine who'd just murdered me with them jokingly referred to the experience as "Force feeding me the plasma." And then it clicked.
Now go forth and let the murder commence, my burgeoning PA acolytes!
The point was that those that engage in more long range combat will naturally fire their weapons for longer.
Where the FDL is concerned, that can be more problematic than with some craft and less problematic than some others. The FDL has always had a heat problem, the issue now is not as bad as it used to be but it is still a concern regardless of how people try to paint it as not being an issue. I am not the only one that has noted this.
Sure if you only fire your high heat weapons with efficient mods at close range then there is not an issue, by comparison though - with most other ships such considerations are far less of an issue.
