Burst / Pulse / Beam post 3.0 and vette hardpoints

[Redomus]

Looks like you have never actually tried using the 4A Beams?

They blow away everything you listed in your post, and then some.

Definitely give them a go! You will be blown away by how effective they are. (You will need to do a G5 efficient weapon upgrade on both before the Vette will be able to run them properly)

Without that upgrade, you will be lucky to get 2 seconds of sustained fire before your max class PD is drained to zero.

Lasers generally arent my flavour if im honest with myself - the beams are just too heavy on the drain for me to find them useful. Plus i get the impression they would be fantastic for pve but not so great for pvp. I like mine to be able to survive an encounter in open so I try to be as capacitor efficient as possible, gives more room for moving and tanking while still outputting the deeps.

The crushing damage of the class 4 plasmas seem to outdo everything though, those pop ships in no time. Im a sucker for burst damage.

 

[GG7]

Lasers generally arent my flavour if im honest with myself - the beams are just too heavy on the drain for me to find them useful. Plus i get the impression they would be fantastic for pve but not so great for pvp. I like mine to be able to survive an encounter in open so I try to be as capacitor efficient as possible, gives more room for moving and tanking while still outputting the deeps.

The crushing damage of the class 4 plasmas seem to outdo everything though, those pop ships in no time. Im a sucker for burst damage.

Like I said... G5 Efficient Weapons Upgrade. With that on both you can fire those 4As for as long as you hold down the trigger.

Most player's issues with Beams are down to not knowing how to properly upgrade them for max performance and sustained fire.

Again... properly upgraded 4As blow everything you have tried in the weeds by a long mile.

 

[Redomus]

Like I said... G5 Efficient Weapons Upgrade. With that on both you can fire those 4As for as long as you hold down the trigger.

Most player's issues with Beams are down to not knowing how to properly upgrade them for max performance and sustained fire.

Again... properly upgraded 4As blow everything you have tried in the weeds by a long mile.

I counter efficient with applicable range, cant be fighting at 500m all the time. I wish it wasnt the case or I would probably use them. But that would also make them OP in pvp

 

[GG7]

I counter efficient with applicable range, cant be fighting at 500m all the time. I wish it wasnt the case or I would probably use them. But that would also make them OP in pvp

There is no appreciable range reduction from stock with the G5 Efficient Beam Upgrade. At least I have never suffered from low range issues in the 2 years I have been running 4As on my Vette.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Best option for Vette is indeed double LR beams. But they would have 11 second firing time only, at four pips.
Grandfathered beams could have distributor draw reduction additional effect for LR mod, up to about 25%. Which would allow for up to 35 seconds of firing time. Along with potential DPS increase.

And damage falloff range for energy weapons is 600m. It decreases linearly to 0 at 3km. LR retain full damage at 6 km.

Vette is slow, so LR is pretty much the only option for PvP. But they are no longer obtainable since 3.0.
"Good" thing is is that old ones were not removed from the game.

For PvE, efficient is fine though.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

2 beams you can keep lit do more damage than beams that are shut off.
Eff gives you nearly indefinite firing time, which is a lot longer than 35 seconds.
It also means you have ample PD charge left over for another fire group.
It's pretty pants to use your entire PD capacity for only two of your hardpoints.

Range?
Meh, I use the c3(LR MC) and 4s to pop small or close ships, and shields of larges, and to cool my ship to ~0 heat.
Then I use the rails/hammers.

Ftr, I tend to avoid efficient mods, but this is one case where it makes sense.

 

[ArchAngelofDeath]

I like Long range beams for my Vette mainly due to the fact most ships are faster than it. You can still hit hard when they get some range on you.
Thermal Vent special solved the heat issue there.
But I went 2x Huge PAs with 1 Lrg + 2Med Long range beams and 2 turreted pulses in the C1 slots. I tried beams on the C1s but they heat up and eat distributor on their own too much. I like them anyway as they keep up the pressure on the target(s) as I reposition so he can't regen his shield during that.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I like Long range beams for my Vette mainly due to the fact most ships are faster than it. You can still hit hard when they get some range on you.
Thermal Vent special solved the heat issue there.
But I went 2x Huge PAs with 1 Lrg + 2Med Long range beams and 2 turreted pulses in the C1 slots. I tried beams on the C1s but they heat up and eat distributor on their own too much. I like them anyway as they keep up the pressure on the target(s) as I reposition so he can't regen his shield during that.

Thermal vent special can make your ship cool down to 0 heat.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

2 beams you can keep lit do more damage than beams that are shut off.
Eff gives you nearly indefinite firing time, which is a lot longer than 35 seconds.
It also means you have ample PD charge left over for another fire group.
It's pretty pants to use your entire PD capacity for only two of your hardpoints.

Range?
Meh, I use the c3(LR MC) and 4s to pop small or close ships, and shields of larges, and to cool my ship to ~0 heat.
Then I use the rails/hammers.

Ftr, I tend to avoid efficient mods, but this is one case where it makes sense.

For PvE, again, efficient is fine.

For PvP, it is not. Everything else is faster than you. By boost speed and/or by turning rate.
In a Vette's case, everything would either would make you to reverski, or (Cutters) will reverse from you. (And Cutters use 3 LR pulses very often. Their C3 and C4 hardpoints even converge vertically at about 3km)
So you have to have some LR weaponry. And beams are no longer viable. Every time you would fire them you will have to heatsink out, or you might not cascade in time if needed, not mentioning that you would have to mandatory go 4 pips in weapons. And the fact that everyone who had them before 3.0 gets to keep that distributor draw reduction on LR mods kills me inside a bit.
About only other option is to use 3 LR bursts now. Gives slightly more dps but uses 3 hardpoints. And this would loose to a double beam Vette pretty heavily.

 

[nathanc213]

All G5 efficient beam lasers with regeneration sequence. They melt almost every ship i come across (I currently have legacy versions so i don't have the extra 10-14% damage increase yet).

 

[Clifra Jones]

That's backwards Rook.

Thermal weapons such as the ones you listed are the shield killers. Kinetic such as MC, Flak Cannons, and Cannons are the hull breakers. Explosives such as missiles and Torpedos are EXTREMELY dangerous to hull while doing no damage against shields.

Beams would be considered 'the best' damage option since they're a constant high powered steady stream but they drain the capacitors the quickest and tend to drive your own heat up as well. Though once the shield drops, they can cook your opponent as well. The real damage being frying the modules.

Pulse is considered the next best but that's because of 'spray and pray'. In truth a well controlled Burst laser hits harder.

Phasing module means the supposed lack of damage is actually not being applied to the shields but rather is bypassing the shield and doing damage to the hull.

Personally I tend to run Pulse lasers in those small and medium slots for shield killing and Fighter swatting but I need the power to run everything else. Though if I were building a pure combat build, beams would be an excellent way to go for shield killing.

I am currently experimenting however with an inverse using large energy weapons and missiles in the small slots. It does pretty well actually though ammo is an issue. Going to see if mag size increase will solve that.

I currently run #2 focused pulse and #1 long range rails in my vipers. But I am thinking of switching to efficient pulse.

I own overcharged, log range and efficient beams for my FDL and Python but always go back to the efficient. I can burn down shields faster by keepng sustained fire on a target with those.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

For PvE, again, efficient is fine.

For PvP, it is not. Everything else is faster than you. By boost speed and/or by turning rate.
In a Vette's case, everything would either would make you to reverski, or (Cutters) will reverse from you. (And Cutters use 3 LR pulses very often. Their C3 and C4 hardpoints even converge vertically at about 3km)
So you have to have some LR weaponry. And beams are no longer viable. Every time you would fire them you will have to heatsink out, or you might not cascade in time if needed, not mentioning that you would have to mandatory go 4 pips in weapons. And the fact that everyone who had them before 3.0 gets to keep that distributor draw reduction on LR mods kills me inside a bit.
About only other option is to use 3 LR bursts now. Gives slightly more dps but uses 3 hardpoints. And this would loose to a double beam Vette pretty heavily.

I use 2x hammer and 2x rail, all LR.
The ship is so cold from the beams I can spam those as fast as they will reload.

Morbad seems to use G5 efficient just fine in PVP with a Corvette.
He uses MCs, burst and rails form the looks of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKgvZ6C9m9w

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

I use 2x hammer and 2x rail, all LR.
The ship is so cold from the beams I can spam those as fast as they will reload.

Morbad seems to use G5 efficient just fine in PVP with a Corvette.
He uses MCs, burst and rails form the looks of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKgvZ6C9m9w

This is a Vette vs a Vette.

Now imagine how things can go in case of Vette vs Cutter, for example. Cutter have about x1.8 boost speed. And fatter SCBs. You either have LR stuff or you high-wake.

And if Vette would have a 2 grandfathered LR build, which is optimised for greater number of situations, he would have a big advantage vs a Vette created with new "grindgeneering", and which is built to have same effectivenes for Vette vs Cutter situations as grandfathered beam Vette has.

And this problems extends to rails as well, by the way. They could have distributor and/or thermal reductions, and with any experimental at that. Along with damage increase.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

This is a Vette vs a Vette.

Now imagine how things can go in case of Vette vs Cutter, for example. Cutter have about x1.8 boost speed. You either have LR stuff or you high-wake.

Having eff c4 beams does not preclude you from having LR weapons.
That's a non sequitur.
I have 5 other LR weapons on mine.

And if Vette would have a 2 grandfathered LR build, which is optimised for greater number of situations, he would have a big advantage vs a Vette created with new "grindgeneering", and which is built to have same effectivenes for Vette vs Cutter situations as grandfathered beam Vette has.

And this problems extends to rails as well, by the way. They could have distributor and/or thermal reductions, and with any experimental at that. Along with damage increase.

None of that is really relevant.
Grandfathering is another issue entirely.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

Having eff c4 beams does not preclude you from having LR weapons.
That's a non sequitur.
I have 5 other LR weapons on mine.





None of that is really relevant.
Grandfathering is another issue entirely.

Having LR c4 beams with draw reduction allows you to bear 3 frags and a couple of cascade rails. And build would still be well-rounded.
3 frags are crapton more effective than two eff beams up close. Meaning it would be better for Vette vs Vette (with 5 LR smaller weapons) situations.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I am not disputing the grandfathering situation, or any of the other side topics.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

I am not disputing the grandfathering situation, or any of the other side topics.

I had stated that double LR is not a viable option anymore, despite what people recommend here. And that eff won't always work, and why they won't.
You started to argue that not having LR as an option does not matter. And I disagree. And now you blame me.

 

[Yosharian]

Just have to say something regarding corrosive on a huge hardpoint.

Corrosive is NOT wasted on a huge hardpoint. It's a good idea to put it there since corrosive doesn't reduce damage, but instead reduces ammo capacity. This means your huge Multi-Cannon still won't run out of ammo before everything else thanks to its low fire rate. Throwing corrosive on a small hardpoint forces you to replace a thermal weapon with kinetic, AND makes it easier to run out of corrosive ammo.

People are right that corrosive doesnt scale with weapon size, but there are other factors as well.

To reiterate, put corrosive on a larger hardpoint. Slower fire rate means more time before you need to restock that blasted thing.

Just because it doesn't reduce damage doesn't mean it's the best experimental to put on your huge hardpoint. This hardpoint is the highest damage one on on your ship, so it makes sense to put something that increases its damage on it.

Auto-loader, for example, essentially means your huge multi-cannon never has to reload, increasing average DPS.

Incendiary turns your huge multi-cannon into a shield-killer that uses relatively little distributor draw compared to laser equivalents (although it will be a little hot).

Double-Braced makes your multi-cannon more resilient to explosive weapon fire that could disable it rapidly.

Oversized gives a low damage boost if you can afford the extra power draw.

The only time you should use Corrosive on a huge MC is if you don't have any other MCs that are suitable for it. This is not the case with OP, as he has a large Incendiary MC. He could switch the EXP effects on these hardpoints and gain a pretty significant damage boost. Incendiary on a Huge deals more damage than Incendiary on a Large, whereas Corrosive has the same effect no matter what hardpoint it's mounted on.

Running out of ammo on a large, medium or small multi-cannon is not something that should happen in one fight, and you can synthesize ammunition between fights. It doesn't cost that much.

I guess if you wanted to avoid synthesizing ammunition putting Corrosive on the Huge is a good idea, though.

 

[Starwolfe]

The way I look at it is that a Corrosive on a Huge mount is not placing something better on that Huge mount, meaning its less potential on that Huge mount as opposed to... just about anything else.

Besides, that Large mount's sporadic use and intermittent tracking abilities as well as its nonexistent elevation adds up to a perfect spot for an occasional boost in the rest of the ship's overall damage output through Corrosive.

Where that Huge can be then directly modified to something of far more potential use and application, making it even better. Where that Large then becomes useful.

But perhaps, that's just me...