Repeat the same Guardian unlock 18 times? Really?

[Rafe Zetter]

Possibly. But if its anything like the previous X games I won't bother. The X series have been some of the most boring space games I have ever played. And I can't play it with my mates.

- Personal preferences - LoL shall I mention the still godawful P2P issues in ED to him or do you think he knows, and just pretends they don't exist.

Possibly. ED has a far better flight model at the moment and better space ship combat. As to the first person part I don't know. We have no idea what ED will be like in 2 years time.

*bwahahahaaaaaaah!* did you just honestly and with a straight face say that ED might have a comparable first person experience as Star Citizen within 2 years? SC's PRIVATELY OWNED by CIG mocap systems are some of the best in the world, easily on par with the most sophisicated mocap used in films today. It's taken CIG two years just to get where they are today, thier first person experience team are doing that and NOTHING ELSE, no other dev work in the game but that. FDev would have to do what everyone else does and get a rental, and a cheap one at that, and hire about 500 more staff, just for that, to even have the remotest chance of making that 2 year window - to a comparable standard.

NMS has some better planetary exploration mechanics. As to the Future of NMS, again I have no idea.

I very much doubt NMS is going to be gone within 2 years - it's the flagship of the company, and they have a lot of humble pie to eat yet before anyone will touch another game made by "Hello games". Besides which thier universe model has incredible potential, you are aware they have the ONLY WORKING procgen "unlimited universe" model in the gaming world today, right? Edit - with flora and fauna ecosystems, not just barren rocks like ED.

The issue here is that the other three specialise in one single area. ED can do it all. Maybe not as well as the specialised games, but that's fine.

Bit of a understatment that - second thoughts quite a large understatment. Max, would you honestly, with genuine conviction, say to anyone face to face, eyeball to eyeball say that of the economic, exploration, or "overall experience" that ED's versions gave the players a satisfactory experience, and that if no more development work was done on them, the players would be "ok" with that.

None of the facets of ED's economy, exploration, mining, and overall integrated and interactive experience's are "fine".

ED will have stuff that is better then them though. NMS: ED has a much better space setting, better space ship mechanics and combat. X4: ED will have a much better flight model (if X4 is anything like their previous games) and for me a more engaging universe to travel in. I have no wish to build corporations and create factories or any of that crap. SC: May not even be released. It is an utter mess. Some of the design decisions have been appalling (makes ED decisions look not that bad). I had SC and tried 3.0. If that is what they are working towards, then it will likely be a turkey. Quantum Drive mechanics are laughable. What idiot came up with that. There is no VR in SC and doubt there ever will be.

Apples and oranges, for all of it.

Seems tome you keep saying the same thing over and over - ED has a better fligt model and more engaging universe, only one of those is true. Try engaging with ED's universe outside of the 2 systems bubble. let me know how you get on and if you see anything other than; rocks, rocks, white rocks, more rocks, farting geysers, a smattering of wrecks and POI's but otherwise, EMPTY. Almost 200 billion of "EMPTIES".

The only game that has a similar broad appeal is Star Citizen. And look how long that is taking to get to even work. The other two are not even compareable. Completely different types of game that share a setting. They are set in space, planets and stations. Saying that the useable galaxy seems to be getting smaller and smaller in SC. Will likely launch with only a few systems to play in.

Err it's still under development?

Entirely different?

- Space combat
- Space trading
- Space "economies" - one is "live / reactive" one is not, no prizes for guessing.
- Planetary bases - one has generic bases pretty much everywhere, the other has specifics, that are different, look different and perform different functions.
- Space aliens - OK you can have that one ED - even though you can entirely ignore them..... oh nope wait - the Vanduul - who will get "in your face" whether you like it or not; and the other alien factions, you can combat or trade with, and fly thier ships.
- Space "factions" - that again you can almost entirely ignore in ED with no impact on your game at all.
- Space mining - ED's is rudimentary, scan / shoot rocks. SC's is more complex with DEDICATED space mining ships.
- Space salvage - ED promised this - so far...NADA, Diddly. SC has it's own DEDICTATED SHIP, a bloody big one, that's bloody awesome.
- Space wrecks - ED's are cosmetic only, SC's are interative.
- Space planet vehicles - ED has one, that does little. SC has err I don't even know 6? 8? each different, fufilling a different need.
- Space "first person experience" - I truly doubt ED will have anything bar very basic "on the landing pad" stuff. SC - EVA, shooting, exploring, and generally running about like loons ANYWHERE YOU LIKE, top of a mountain? NP, nowhere is "off limits".
- Space "open universe" - ED's is gated, instanced, all of it. SC's is open.
- Space "persistant universe" - ED has almost none, not even around the player. SC's is persistant as far as the game allows for stability reasons. Player wrecks get auto destroyed after a time, for reasons that should be obvious.
- Space "sandbox game" - ED claims to be one, but in reality is far from it, almost everything someone else does has no effect on you, not even minutes, let alone hours or days later.
- Space Exploration - ED has "jump, honk (scan), jump" 200 billion times - you can keep that to yourself, all of it. All 200 billion EMPTIES. I hear most supermarkets keep extra packing boxes for customers that might need them. SC will launch with only a handful of systems, but you'll be able to do a lot more in that handful than the majority of the rest outside the bubble - or INSIDE the bubble for that matter. Just how many Guardian / Thargoid sites are there anyway?


but you are right the two are NOT even comparable, that's about the only worthwhile thing you've said in this post or elsewhere, for a while. Here, have another straw to clutch, you seem to like them

SC is taking it's sweet time - sure is - but when it drops it WILL BE the BDSSE, and it'll keep that title for the next decade or two, because the phenomena surrounding the KS of Star Citizen won't likely to be repeated anytime soon. Not in my lifetime I doubt.

Far less time to upgrade and zero grind for me and my playstyle. Not too sure what everyone else does but I do get sick of the constant moans about grind which is pretty much self inflicted.

Self inflicted? Are you mental? Are you FFF blind?

There are hundreds and hundreds of posts in various places in the forum PLEADING with Fdev for them to STOP WITH THE GRIND MECHANICS.

Over and over and over and over Over and over and over and over Over and over and over and over Over and over and over and over Over and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and overOver and over and over and over...

again.

So either you are: selectively blind, stupid, pretending you can't read english, trolling or conveniently forgetting the facts to suit your argument.

None of which makes you look good Max.

So you personally are not having an issue Max, that's nice for you - but insinuating the rest of the playerbase did this to themselves without protest is outright insulting, because no-one and I mean no-one could have missed the outcry of "PLEASE STOP WITH THE GRIND" over this and many many other situations. (I had said something else here, but even I thought it was too much, but rest assured it was neither polite and called into question a lot of your personal morality about unsavory non consensual sexual acts - I think you get the idea)

The blame for this is solely at FDevs front door, and no-one elses.

If ever was there a post from you that displayed that you will say ANYTHING, no matter how outrageous a lie it is, in defence of FDev, that was it.

Which means nothing out of your mouth can be trusted from now on as anything other than the most mindless of fanboyism ever displayed.

 

[Canoe]

Not too sure what everyone else does but I do get sick of the constant moans about grind which is pretty much self inflicted.

You're either being facetious, or are utterly blind to the fact that repeating the same task dozens and dozens of time to unlock one of many products is anything but self-inflicted. You're referring to upgrades, this thread is referring to unlocking key gameplay mechanisms.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You're either being facetious, or are utterly blind to the fact that repeating the same task dozens and dozens of time to unlock one of many products is anything but self-inflicted. You're referring to upgrades, this thread is referring to unlocking key gameplay mechanisms.

Guardian modules do not open up any key gameplay options.

I have said many times already in this thread that I think the requirements are bad. But none of them are necessary for any content in the game.

Do the guardian content once for the experience, then leave.

So what key gameplay mechanisms do the guardian modules open up as I can't think of any?

Looks to me that it is 100% self inflicted if you go through it for no real purpose.

 

[vidslo]

It's funny. I don't find it more time consuming. In fact I find it takes far less time with the pinned blueprints and the mat trader.

I find it a doddle to upgrade my modules now, when before it was very difficult as I rarely had any materials that went together to create an upgrade.

Far less time to upgrade and zero grind for me and my playstyle. Not too sure what everyone else does but I do get sick of the constant moans about grind which is pretty much self inflicted.

You have found a play style that works for you, you get enjoyment out of the game this way, which is great. Why do you think the way you play, at the pace you place, should be accepted by everyone else? You may not feel it's a grind, but many others do.

The solution to "not do it" isn't a practical solution if players want to take part in those activities. The suggestions being made by most involve making these tasks more fun.

Saying that the issues people are bringing up is 'self inflicted' is being completely dismissive of the fact that more and more people are commenting on it. These are not one-off threads started, there's a trend that many people have seen over the years and these are things that people want to see addressed because we want to see this game get better.

 

[Dutchman141]

Guardian modules do not open up any key gameplay options.

I have said many times already in this thread that I think the requirements are bad. But none of them are necessary for any content in the game.

Do the guardian content once for the experience, then leave.

So what key gameplay mechanisms do the guardian modules open up as I can't think of any?

Looks to me that it is 100% self inflicted if you go through it for no real purpose.

So adding the Guardian modules at all was just a waste of time and resources.
I would love to have the Guardian stuff, just not at this moment's expense.
If I'd think like you then I would have to discard quite the number of additions to ED.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You have found a play style that works for you, you get enjoyment out of the game this way, which is great. Why do you think the way you play, at the pace you place, should be accepted by everyone else? You may not feel it's a grind, but many others do.

The solution to "not do it" isn't a practical solution if players want to take part in those activities. The suggestions being made by most involve making these tasks more fun.

Saying that the issues people are bringing up is 'self inflicted' is being completely dismissive of the fact that more and more people are commenting on it. These are not one-off threads started, there's a trend that many people have seen over the years and these are things that people want to see addressed because we want to see this game get better.

I never said dont do it. I said dont grind it out if you don't enjoy it. Sounds like self inflicted torture for no reason.

Look, I have no issues if people want to grind stuff out. But choosing to do that and moaning about, well what can I say?

Yes, play your own way, play in a way that you find unenjoyable if you want to. But you have no right to complain about the way you have chosen to play.

I have ground bits out (mining engineer requiremnts), I don't moan about it as I chose to do it and xould of done it in abetter way more enjoyable way too, what I try to do is point out better ways FDev could go about some of these things.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So adding the Guardian modules at all was just a waste of time and resources.
I would love to have the Guardian stuff, just not at this moment's expense.
If I'd think like you then I would have to discard quite the number of additions to ED.

I think whether it's a waste or not is down to the individual. There is a big difference between needing and wanting. There are lots of things I want in the game, but my want to enjoy my game time is higher then any of those.

So I make sure that is what I do as much as possible.
None of us need any of these modules, it's all about choice. You choose to go for them if you want them. But you do not need them. Doing something that you do not enjoy for something you do not need is counter productive in my view.

Do I want the "personal narrative" to change into something more compelling, hell yes. I want more fun gameplay too. I would like to create a guardian based ship, but I don't need one. So I choose not to do it until it gets improved, if it does. And I really hope it does.

 

[vidslo]

I never said dont so it. I said dont grind it out if you don't enjoy the. Sounds like self inflicted torture for no reason.

Look, I have no issues if people want to grind stuff out. But choosing to do that and moaning about, well ehay can I say?

Yes, play your own way, play in a way that you find unennoyable if you want to. But you have no right to complain about the way you have chosen to play.

I have ground bits out (mining engineer requiremnts), I don't moan about it as I chose to do it but what I do is point out better ways FDev could go about some of these things.

People have no right to complain about game mechanics that require excessive amounts of time?

Sure, someone can avoid feeling the "grind" by not doing it all at once, but whether it's broken up over the course of a month or done in one sitting doesn't matter. The time input is going to be roughly the same, regardless of how long it takes. 12 hrs all at once or done in 12 1 hr chunks is still 12 hrs.

Hell, I'd even argue that it's not the fact that it even takes 12 hrs, it's how it's being implemented. If it was 12 hrs of flying around to several guardian ruins and structures, collecting blueprints and parts, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

I agree that complaining to just complain isn't always the best course of action, nor does far in helping reach a solution, but there's plenty of people who gripe about things that offer solutions on how things can be changed for the better.

People want to take part in this game, they want to unlock guardian weapons for fighting the Thargoids, but when it requires a time commitment (no matter how it's broken up) of repetitive gameplay, it ends up being discouraging. Again, you may not feel that way, but others do, and those of us that feel that way want to see the repetitive portion of it addressed so that time commitment is fun and enjoyable not work.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

People have no right to complain about game mechanics that require excessive amounts of time?

Sure, someone can avoid feeling the "grind" by not doing it all at once, but whether it's broken up over the course of a month or done in one sitting doesn't matter. The time input is going to be roughly the same, regardless of how long it takes. 12 hrs all at once or done in 12 1 hr chunks is still 12 hrs.

Hell, I'd even argue that it's not the fact that it even takes 12 hrs, it's how it's being implemented. If it was 12 hrs of flying around to several guardian ruins and structures, collecting blueprints and parts, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

I agree that complaining to just complain isn't always the best course of action, nor does far in helping reach a solution, but there's plenty of people who gripe about things that offer solutions on how things can be changed for the better.

People want to take part in this game, they want to unlock guardian weapons for fighting the Thargoids, but when it requires a time commitment (no matter how it's broken up) of repetitive gameplay, it ends up being discouraging. Again, you may not feel that way, but others do, and those of us that feel that way want to see the repetitive portion of it addressed so that time commitment is fun and enjoyable not work.

That is not what I said. Please do not put words in my mouth.

Please re-read it. You seem to have completely misunderstand what I have written. Also you do not need guardian weapons to fight thargoid.

 

[El_Hefe]

To be honest certain posters credibility should really be in the toilet imo.

No matter what they will defend the game,zero objectivity.

Telling people to just ignore large chunks of content,especially new content,is just ridiculous.

Fanbois gonna fanboi,just dont reply because as has been proven many times you might as well be talking to a brick wall in terms of debate.

 

[vidslo]

That is not what I said. Please do not put words in my mouth.

Please re-read it. You seem to have completely misunderstand what I have written.

But that's exactly how it was taken, so perhaps you're not expressing your argument properly

But you have no right to complain about the way you have chosen to play.

You're missing the point on why people are complaining, whether it's on purpose or not, I don't know.

The 'way' people choose to play is irrelevant to why they are complaining. They're complaining because it's simple, boring, and repetitive. As I said above, it's irrelevant whether it's consumed in 1 hr chunks or all at once. Don't bother with "then don't do it" tripe if that's your only response.

Also you do not need guardian weapons to fight thargoid.

And I don't see people saying it is "needed". We all know that.

The guardian weapons offer an advantage when fighting the interceptors. Yes, the weapon itself isn't needed, but people want the advantage, enough so that they'll go thru the tasks to unlock the weapon, or whatever else they're after.

You seem to give off the opinion that no one should complain about poor game mechanics and we should all just be happy with what we have, but that's not how things work. Developers should listen to their communities, as Fdev has shown they can do, and adjust/fix those mechanics to create a better game. They do not, nor should not live in isolation.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

But that's exactly how it was taken, so perhaps you're not expressing your argument properly



You're missing the point on why people are complaining, whether it's on purpose or not, I don't know.

The 'way' people choose to play is irrelevant to why they are complaining. They're complaining because it's simple, boring, and repetitive. As I said above, it's irrelevant whether it's consumed in 1 hr chunks or all at once. Don't bother with "then don't do it" tripe if that's your only response.





And I don't see people saying it is "needed". We all know that.

The guardian weapons offer an advantage when fighting the interceptors. Yes, the weapon itself isn't needed, but people want the advantage, enough so that they'll go thru the tasks to unlock the weapon, or whatever else they're after.

You seem to give off the opinion that no one should complain about poor game mechanics and we should all just be happy with what we have, but that's not how things work. Developers should listen to their communities, as Fdev has shown they can do, and adjust/fix those mechanics to create a better game. They do not, nor should not live in isolation.

no that is not what I am saying and have never said that. I have mentioned a number of ways in this very thread that would have made the experience better.

Look, the best way to tell FDev that it is a poor mechanic is to not do it.

If enough of you engage in it, FDev will think that it works regardless of what we say on here and more of this kind of rubbish will be made. Remember we are a minority of the player base on the forums. So vote by not engaging in it.

It's what I did with engineers as did a load of others. Now it is a far more enjoyable experience for me anyway. Still needs improving though such as USS mechanics and the mechanics of planet prospecting by hopefully these will get better in Q4.

But doing it then moaning about it will not achieve anything. Don't do it and come up with better ways to do it may get us somewhere.

 

[Knightshark]

Look, the best way to tell FDev that it is a poor mechanic is to not do it.

You mean like with CQC or PP that barely anyone engages in and therefore FD moves quickly to rework?

 

[vidslo]

no that is not what I am saying and have never said that. I have mentioned a number of ways in this very thread that would have made the experience better.

Look, the best way to tell FDev that it is a poor mechanic is to not do it.

If enough of you engage in it FDev will think that it works regardless of what we say on here. Remember we are a minority of the player base on the forums. So vote by not engaging in it.

It's what I did with engineers and also a load of others. Not it is a far more enjoyable experience. Still needs improving though such as USS mechanics and the mechanics of planet prospecting.

It seems that we just disagree on how to engage Fdev on this.

I, myself, am not going to take part in any of it if/until Fdev addresses it, so we're on the same page there.

However, they should know people are not going to participate in it and why.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You mean like with CQC or PP that barely anyone engages in and therefore FD moves quickly to rework?

Well, they haven't added PP mk2 or another version of CQC. But there seems to be a reasonable number of players that do the Power play part. I do think that they will upgrade it in the future though.

It seems that we just disagree on how to engage Fdev on this.

I, myself, am not going to take part in any of it if/until Fdev addresses it, so we're on the same page there.

However, they should know people are not going to participate in it and why.

I have nothing against that either. I have said the exact same thing on here. I will not engage in it as it isn't a good mechanic. I also have come up with better ways to do it.

 

[Dutchman141]

To be honest certain posters credibility should really be in the toilet imo.

No matter what they will defend the game,zero objectivity.

Telling people to just ignore large chunks of content,especially new content,is just ridiculous.

Fanbois gonna fanboi,just dont reply because as has been proven many times you might as well be talking to a brick wall in terms of debate.

This^^^

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

To be honest certain posters credibility should really be in the toilet imo.

No matter what they will defend the game,zero objectivity.

Telling people to just ignore large chunks of content,especially new content,is just ridiculous.

Fanbois gonna fanboi,just dont reply because as has been proven many times you might as well be talking to a brick wall in terms of debate.

I don't think many out and out defend poor mechanics. And I think that visiting the guardian ruins is probably a worthwhile experience.

But guardian modules are just another tool to experience the same gameplay with. One which isn't necessary for any gameplay. But if people want to through the grind, to get modules that they don't really need, well that's up to them.

Certainly won't see me do it in till they come up with something better.

 

[MAUXUS]

I don't think many out and out defend poor mechanics. And I think that visiting th guardian ruins is probably a worthwhile experience.

But guardian modules are just another tool to experience the gameplay with. One which isn't necessary for any gameplay. But if people want to through the grind, to get modules that they don't really need, well that's up to them.

Why bother buying any game then? The all point of a game is to entertain people and push them to do better and better through level advancement, and/or through making their character better with upgrades, among other tricks. As a matter of fact, i think it's an essential part of the game, one that makes players interested in continuing to play. We don't want to lose nor ignore those tools, we just want them to be less tedious (better mechanics). We don't have to agree on everything of course. You presented your opinion, you suggested the way you think it should be handled, I respect your position but I also wanted to point out that you seem to be part of the minority (28 pages of ppl agree so far).

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

It’s 22 now. If you spread the process across several weeks, it’ll be tolerable. Now doesn’t that sound fun? I’d be ashamed if I wasted such a wonderful asset as the Guardian sites, on this trivial, unimaginative and repetitive loop of boredom.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

People have no right to complain about game mechanics that require excessive amounts of time?

Sure, someone can avoid feeling the "grind" by not doing it all at once, but whether it's broken up over the course of a month or done in one sitting doesn't matter. The time input is going to be roughly the same, regardless of how long it takes. 12 hrs all at once or done in 12 1 hr chunks is still 12 hrs.

Hell, I'd even argue that it's not the fact that it even takes 12 hrs, it's how it's being implemented. If it was 12 hrs of flying around to several guardian ruins and structures, collecting blueprints and parts, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

I agree that complaining to just complain isn't always the best course of action, nor does far in helping reach a solution, but there's plenty of people who gripe about things that offer solutions on how things can be changed for the better.

People want to take part in this game, they want to unlock guardian weapons for fighting the Thargoids, but when it requires a time commitment (no matter how it's broken up) of repetitive gameplay, it ends up being discouraging. Again, you may not feel that way, but others do, and those of us that feel that way want to see the repetitive portion of it addressed so that time commitment is fun and enjoyable not work.

this

Others have said the same.

I and many other gamers have happily sunk hundreds of hours into game mechanics that others might consider a grind - I get that Max, I do - we all do, BUT as Vidslo and all the others in this thread said, it's the implementation that was so obviously the "least amount of work, with no respect for the players time" methodology of this and so much of the rest of ED's content.

There was seemingly no attempt to break it up, spread it out, make the player follow a chain - no "Lore" involved that could have been introduced... "the guardians knew by breaking up the components and plans the thargoids has much less chance of destroying the blueprints for these special weapons"..

There are so many ways, and previous examples in other games of how this particular gaming trope of "do X Y Z to progress to the next gear" could have been handled - and seemignly FDev ignored all of them for thier own simplicity of implementation.

However you feel about it Max - a game mechanic that doesn't engage the player in any meaningful way, adding depth to already existing mechanics, that makes the player feel like "I'm dreading having to do all that" - and even turns a player to go do something else, or play a different game is one that isn't fit for purpose.

This current implementation of how you earn guardian blueprints and mats for new weapons feels like another placeholder, in a game already rife with placeholders - because there is content already in place that could have made it far more engaging.

Scanning other sites - going to crashed thargoids to collect "lost" data that had been stolen from other now destroyed guardian sites - scanning the drones around thargoid sites for vital "hardware information".... "we lost the vital data to make weapon #8 work correctly, you'll have to get it yourself from drones to complete the schematics".

see? that's already more engaging and "lore immersive" gameplay and I've only been thinking about it for 30 seconds.

Putting all the known gaming tropes in a hat and pullign them out one at a time is more imaginitive than what FDev did.

You're happy - that's fine - many aren't, accept it or not is your choice, but stop trying to say it doesn't exist and it's all "self inflicted" because it oh so very obviously does and wasn't.

Even Sleut will agree with that.