Ik @Knightshark, but that isn't my idea of speaking up 'loudly' to FDev, if you catch my drift.
Repeat the same Guardian unlock 18 times? Really?
- Thread starter Mr_sukebe
- Start date
Ik @Knightshark, but that isn't my idea of speaking up 'loudly' to FDev, if you catch my drift.
Yeah, all of that should be disused openly on reddit. They'd react in no time.
ED hS the best flight model, by far, compared with nms, x-series and sc. Which is always the core point of ED: flying spaceships.
Well, done and dusted...it was a BIT grindy...but that's my OWN fault (I chose to go grab enough Weapon Blueprints for a full fit and the Module Blueprints for an FSD Booster all in one go at the same time...it was always going to be repetitive)
But, by doing the Ram Tah mission at the same time, a bit of surface prospecting for Minerals, some looking for new Guardian Structures in likely looking systems and visiting as many differenbt sites as I could find...it wasn't the end of the world...
Would have been much worse if I'd just sat at the same site logging and logging whilst doing the same run over and over again....
They could probably have dropped the numbers a little to make it LESS painful...but I DO fully understand why they want Exotic tech from a thousand year dead alien civilisation to be a little difficult to acquire...
(I'd have preferred it if they had made it a more difficult puzzle to solve...so LESS repetition, but the same amount of time to obtain...BUT in a world where Google exists that wouldn't work...)
But, by doing the Ram Tah mission at the same time, a bit of surface prospecting for Minerals, some looking for new Guardian Structures in likely looking systems and visiting as many differenbt sites as I could find...it wasn't the end of the world...
Would have been much worse if I'd just sat at the same site logging and logging whilst doing the same run over and over again....
They could probably have dropped the numbers a little to make it LESS painful...but I DO fully understand why they want Exotic tech from a thousand year dead alien civilisation to be a little difficult to acquire...
(I'd have preferred it if they had made it a more difficult puzzle to solve...so LESS repetition, but the same amount of time to obtain...BUT in a world where Google exists that wouldn't work...)
Possibly.
Possibly. But if its anything like the previous X games I won't bother. The X series have been some of the most boring space games I have ever played. And I can't play it with my mates.
Possibly. ED has a far better flight model at the moment and better space ship combat. As to the first person part I don't know. We have no idea what ED will be like in 2 years time.
NMS has some better planetary exploration mechanics. As to the Future of NMS, again I have no idea.
The issue here is that the other three specialise in one single area. ED can do it all. Maybe not as well as the specialised games, but that's fine.
ED will have stuff that is better then them though. NMS: ED has a much better space setting, better space ship mechanics and combat. X4: ED will have a much better flight model (if X4 is anything like their previous games) and for me a more engaging universe to travel in. I have no wish to build corporations and create factories or any of that crap. SC: May not even be released. It is an utter mess. Some of the design decisions have been appalling (makes ED decisions look not that bad). I had SC and tried 3.0. If that is what they are working towards, then it will likely be a turkey. Quantum Drive mechanics are laughable. What idiot came up with that. There is no VR in SC and doubt there ever will be.
The only game that has a similar broad appeal is Star Citizen. And look how long that is taking to get to even work. The other two are not even compareable. Completely different types of game that share a setting. They are set in space, planets and stations. Saying that the useable galaxy seems to be getting smaller and smaller in SC. Will likely launch with only a few systems to play in.
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Consoles. I'm being serious - the only thing that comes close to ED on the console is NMS, and that's about as "close" as Hutton Orbital.
Agreed - which is why I play Elite instead of NMS even though I have both.
Which is why I find it so frustrating that all this new “content” is locked behind collecting stuff in an SRV! Sure, I don’t mind a quick planetside jaunt in the ol’ buggy every now and then but that’s not why I bought Elite!!
Give me a way to unlock Guardian / Thargoid content that I can do from the spaceship I just spent god knows how many hours Engineering and I’ll happily get stuck in!
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Dev 1: “Hey, we’re gonna bring the Thargoids into the game in a big way but we’re gonna make ‘em really tough / impossible to kill with conventional weapons but instead give the players some cool new Anti-Tharg weapons to unlock and use against ‘em”
Dev 2: “That sounds cool!! Shall we have the players embark on a set of missions, spanning the galaxy, learning to fight the Thargoids and slowly unlocking better and better gear in order to be able to take on bigger/scarier Thargoids ships?”
Dev 1: “Nah, lets have ‘em repeatedly drive around one area of one planet in an SRV collect stuff”
Dev 2: “That sounds cool!! Shall we have the players embark on a set of missions, spanning the galaxy, learning to fight the Thargoids and slowly unlocking better and better gear in order to be able to take on bigger/scarier Thargoids ships?”
Dev 1: “Nah, lets have ‘em repeatedly drive around one area of one planet in an SRV collect stuff”
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IF FDev take feedback coming from this thread (and some other) with changing the logic behind opening possibility build new stuff (like only 5ve concrete blueprints needed for open certain item) and add some requierement for build new stuff (it is based on guardian technology, so it seems to me logical have need for certain items (from ruins) when I want build certain thing), then most of criticism is solved. ... Yes, there are many important details to be evaluated. ... all this is however imo just relative simple change to new ingame mechanism. I will repeat itself, the problem is imo not that this game is critically missing something, but how are some already existing things implemented and in many cases use of existing stuff different way can offer for all much more fun (and not feel grindy ... such popular term used often on this forum).
And for compare ED with other games ... Max Factor summed my thoughts above perfectly. Especially lol on SC ships flight model comparison ... sorry, but ED is another (higher) league in this aspect.
And for compare ED with other games ... Max Factor summed my thoughts above perfectly. Especially lol on SC ships flight model comparison ... sorry, but ED is another (higher) league in this aspect.
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A lot of us did raise the issues during the beta, loudly, over and over and over again. We begged and pleaded with Sandro to not put the new grade grind into place because it only served to undo the positives which the rest of the (very good) engineering changes did. He didn’t agree, and now we have a new engineering system which is both better yet more time consuming at the same time.
With the Guardian stuff though we didn’t get to test it as thoroughly during the beta, we had no idea just how grindy it was going to be. The final product does fit in with Sandro’s design philosophy though, which is time consuming grind walls.
Believe me though, we tried very hard. We even did time studies and created spreadsheets and flow charts, we were just met with resistance or silence at every turn.
I’d love to see this design philosophy of grindwalls change at Frontier, but I fear that after all this time it just isn’t going to happen. Frontier has their preferred way of implementing content, and contrary to what they say in public it is very often NOT to respect how valuable the player’s time is. Just look at the new wing missions, they could have easily been balanced to be attractive for both solo and wing players, but Frontier didn’t want that, they only created them for one subset of players, not everyone. Much of Frontier’s content is created with a narrow vision like this instead of taking the whole game into consideration, and it’s why Elite feels like so many separate features bolted beside each other. There isn’t a grand vision, just a lot of individual unconnected things fastened to the same core.
The only unified vision in Elite is that it needs to feel grindy and waste a lot of the players time. Scanning objects could be faster, transferring ships could take less time, Power Play could be less of a second job, Engineering could be less of a grind, Tech Broker unlocks could be SOOOOO much more reasonable, synthesis could not have been changed to make you sit and watch a progress bar for half a minute first. There are just so many time wasting aspects to the game that literally half or more of everyone’s total playtime is spent waiting for something to happen, NOT actually playing the game.
I just wish it wasn’t so. I’d rather the game be engaging and fun than passive and frustrating. I’d love to be so included while playing the game that I didn’t need NetFlix to make it bearable. That’s my greatest wish for the Q4 Exploration changes: that it makes exploration so engaging and fun and engrossing that I’ll no longer need NetFlix to tolerate it. Note that this does NOT mean grindy and time consuming!!!!!!
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It's funny. I don't find it more time consuming. In fact I find it takes far less time with the pinned blueprints and the mat trader.
I find it a doddle to upgrade my modules now, when before it was very difficult as I rarely had any materials that went together to create an upgrade.
Far less time to upgrade and zero grind for me and my playstyle. Not too sure what everyone else does but I do get sick of the constant moans about grind which is pretty much self inflicted.
Yeah right, it's funny.
Regarding to engineers ... if I do not take into account one certain materials gathering (Yes I look on HUSS... tragic) then the whole process is MUCH faster with good result especially if you will use for lvl5 max four rols which in 99% cases means reach 3/4 of lvl5 maximum. It actually offer enough fun for upgrade all my ships (not two main used, but more as ten). You can with pinned mods upgrade most of purchased equipment right at place where you purchase these and anytime later just add special on engineer site (and here only weapons are rly important). This (engineers) is a sign for me, that FDev really listen to us (players) and there is not any case lost in advance if is feedback strong enough.
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Yes, it just might take two years.
Here Im little more optimistic, bcs season3 (or call it how you like) is aimed on upgrade existing things. If this is correct or false view ... time will tell
If this is correct or false view ... time will tell
I hope they don't leave it any longer than Christmas to tell. We're getting old.
Here Im little more optimistic, bcs season3 (or call it how you like) is aimed on upgrade existing things. If this is correct or false view ... time will tell
Good point.
I gave my opinion about engineers earlier in this thread and in a different thread as well:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...n-about-new-engineering?p=6587619#post6587619
I wanted to explore unlocking guardian weapons, so I went ahead and gave it a try. I set out to unlock the Guardian Gauss Cannon.
Departed HR 1183 with my 50LY Asp. Destination Col 173 Sector HR-M b23-3. Time to destination 25 minutes + 25 minutes to find parking nearby the guardian site. Terrain is extremely rough, and the Guardian Site is on a very steep hill. Total time to beginning of material collection with SRV: +1 hour.
Performing 5 loops around the Guardian Structure took another +2 hours. The first couple of loops might have taken a little longer to complete (first timer). By the end of the 4th loop, I had enough Guardian Weapon Blueprint Segments (4), and enough Guardian Power Cells (~40), but not enough Guardian Technology Components (21, needed 46).
Went for the 5th loop but when completed, I realized I finished my reserves of Phosphorus, which is needed for ammo and fuel refills. I did take two (2) SRVs with me though! I also refilled them a couple of times each. I managed to grab another Guardian Weapon Blueprint Segments at this point, but I had to leave the rest of the mats there because I didn’t have enough ammo to destroy the skimmers and/or pilons.
Left Col 173 Sector HR-M b23-3 in search of Phosphorus. Found a good candidate in Col 173 Sector TL-J c10-25 3 d a. Collected about 25-30 Phosphorus and went back to the Guardian Structure. Total time +1 hour.
Back on Col 173 Sector HR-M b23-3, found a spot to land the Asp again, deployed the SRV and drove back to the site. Did another loop and when I got to the end, when all the skimmers spawn at the same time, my SRV got stuck during combat. Nothing I did moved the sucker from that stuck position. I had to log out and log back in. Lost all mats and data, again.
Started the loop over and did it two more times. Total time for this segment: +1 hour. I finally had all the required Guardian mats.
Total time so far: 5 hours
Departed the planet in search of Manganese. Needed an additional 20 (already had 10): +1 hour.
Departed the Manganese planet. Destination: the Aasgaa system, to purchase 10 Magnetic Emitter Coil: +25 min.
Head to LTT 4961 for unlock: +5 min.
Once at LTT 4961, transfer Anaconda. Time for transfer: +1h21m.
Equip unlocked Guardian weapons, switch to Asp, head to Kuwemaki to upgrade Power Plant to G5 (the currently equipped G1 does not produce enough power for 4 Guardian Gauss Weapons). Transfer Anaconda to nearby (Kuwemaki) system with Shipyard and Large pad: +1 hour.
Take Asp to Raw and Manufactured Material Trader (two different systems) to get enough Grid Resistors (for thermal spread special effect) and Selenium for the actual upgrade to G5: +30 min.
Fly back to system nearby Kuwemaki to pickup Anaconda, take it to Kuwemaki and perform upgrades: +30 min.
Fly back to nearby system, pickup Asp, travel back to HR 1183 and transfer Anaconda back: +1h20m.
Total game time from when I decided to get my self Guardian Gauss Cannon: ~11.
My opinion: I have a headache and I did not enjoy the process a bit. Could not even test the Anaconda in combat because the steps needed before the actual fun time were too many and took too long. Once again, IMHO I believe that engineering (in this case guardians engineering) should only take a fraction of the game time, not most of it. As a gamer I want to ideally spend more time fighting (my kind of fun) and less "working".
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...n-about-new-engineering?p=6587619#post6587619
I wanted to explore unlocking guardian weapons, so I went ahead and gave it a try. I set out to unlock the Guardian Gauss Cannon.
Departed HR 1183 with my 50LY Asp. Destination Col 173 Sector HR-M b23-3. Time to destination 25 minutes + 25 minutes to find parking nearby the guardian site. Terrain is extremely rough, and the Guardian Site is on a very steep hill. Total time to beginning of material collection with SRV: +1 hour.
Performing 5 loops around the Guardian Structure took another +2 hours. The first couple of loops might have taken a little longer to complete (first timer). By the end of the 4th loop, I had enough Guardian Weapon Blueprint Segments (4), and enough Guardian Power Cells (~40), but not enough Guardian Technology Components (21, needed 46).
Went for the 5th loop but when completed, I realized I finished my reserves of Phosphorus, which is needed for ammo and fuel refills. I did take two (2) SRVs with me though! I also refilled them a couple of times each. I managed to grab another Guardian Weapon Blueprint Segments at this point, but I had to leave the rest of the mats there because I didn’t have enough ammo to destroy the skimmers and/or pilons.
Left Col 173 Sector HR-M b23-3 in search of Phosphorus. Found a good candidate in Col 173 Sector TL-J c10-25 3 d a. Collected about 25-30 Phosphorus and went back to the Guardian Structure. Total time +1 hour.
Back on Col 173 Sector HR-M b23-3, found a spot to land the Asp again, deployed the SRV and drove back to the site. Did another loop and when I got to the end, when all the skimmers spawn at the same time, my SRV got stuck during combat. Nothing I did moved the sucker from that stuck position. I had to log out and log back in. Lost all mats and data, again.
Started the loop over and did it two more times. Total time for this segment: +1 hour. I finally had all the required Guardian mats.
Total time so far: 5 hours
Departed the planet in search of Manganese. Needed an additional 20 (already had 10): +1 hour.
Departed the Manganese planet. Destination: the Aasgaa system, to purchase 10 Magnetic Emitter Coil: +25 min.
Head to LTT 4961 for unlock: +5 min.
Once at LTT 4961, transfer Anaconda. Time for transfer: +1h21m.
Equip unlocked Guardian weapons, switch to Asp, head to Kuwemaki to upgrade Power Plant to G5 (the currently equipped G1 does not produce enough power for 4 Guardian Gauss Weapons). Transfer Anaconda to nearby (Kuwemaki) system with Shipyard and Large pad: +1 hour.
Take Asp to Raw and Manufactured Material Trader (two different systems) to get enough Grid Resistors (for thermal spread special effect) and Selenium for the actual upgrade to G5: +30 min.
Fly back to system nearby Kuwemaki to pickup Anaconda, take it to Kuwemaki and perform upgrades: +30 min.
Fly back to nearby system, pickup Asp, travel back to HR 1183 and transfer Anaconda back: +1h20m.
Total game time from when I decided to get my self Guardian Gauss Cannon: ~11.
My opinion: I have a headache and I did not enjoy the process a bit. Could not even test the Anaconda in combat because the steps needed before the actual fun time were too many and took too long. Once again, IMHO I believe that engineering (in this case guardians engineering) should only take a fraction of the game time, not most of it. As a gamer I want to ideally spend more time fighting (my kind of fun) and less "working".
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I count about 4.5 hours just spent for transfers. That sounds terrible.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
Granted, nor disputed - for now.
But it's only the FLIGHT MODEL, that's noteworthy. For now. I've bet good money that SC's "finished" flight model will be far more in tune with "skill counts as much, if not more, than size of your guns"
In ED- a few engineered mods and combat becomes laughably easy - so much so that people wipe their saves to start from the noobwinder, or limit themselves to lower tier ships just to get some semblance of "thrill" from combat.
FDev might have the best flight model compared to the rest, but the next X game isn't out, NMS isn't about the flight combat, and SC's flight model is still in it's infancy.
So there's no real race going on here that ED is "winning", of the four you've got 1 non starter, 1 playing hop/skip/jump and a crawling baby. ED is "winning by default".
BTW you want to know what a real "flight model sim" looks like - go try Falcon 4.0 - or War thunder in "realistic mode".
ED by comparison is pathetically arcady and primitive.