SYS pips : What are the full facts of its mechanism ?

[dognosh]

Over the years I have read posts by testers and FD but I am still confused about what the pips do to SYS(in particular)
I have read better recharge rate when shield recovering.
I have read better return to life rate after a broken shield,also the opposite that it does nothing .
I have read that it also strengthens shields,and that it does nothing.

Does anyone know the facts?(not opinion)
ty

 

[Ian Doncaster]

I have read that it also strengthens shields,and that it does nothing.

This is correct. Shields are ~2.4x stronger with 4 pips in SYS than with none.

I have read better recharge rate when shield recovering.
I have read better return to life rate after a broken shield,also the opposite that it does nothing .

This is not directly accurate - the regeneration rates are independent of pips. However, if your SYS distributor is empty your shields will not recharge at all. Once you have enough pips in SYS to refill the distributor as fast as shield recharge is draining it, further pips make no difference.

 

[NecasekO]

Just to elaborate on the shield strength bonus:

4 pips to SYS provides 60% resistance to all damage types, which fully stacks with resistance from shield generator and boosters (multiplicative). Resistance from SYS pips is completely hidden and not shown anywhere in the game.

Recently the resistance gain increases linearly with more pips - e.g. with 2 pips you get 30% damage resistance.

 

[dognosh]

Ok, thanks guys.
So I am still confused regarding 4 pips, one said shields stronger by 2.4 times, and another says +60% to all resistances ?

extra question : I know that after +50% resistance we have diminishing returns,and a hard cap at 75%, correct ?
If so, and all my resistances are at 60%, and if 4 pips give +60%, we talking still hard cap at 75% ? if yes then someone with high resistances need not use 4 pips ?

 

[Genoscythe]

Just to elaborate on the shield strength bonus:

4 pips to SYS provides 60% resistance to all damage types, which fully stacks with resistance from shield generator and boosters (multiplicative). Resistance from SYS pips is completely hidden and not shown anywhere in the game.

Recently the resistance gain increases linearly with more pips - e.g. with 2 pips you get 30% damage resistance.

Interesting, I thought as much because I read a lot about people going brain-afk tankmode with the vette and 4-0-2, but do you have any information on if the dmg resistance scales up to the maximum of 75% that you can reach with boosters or goes over that?

 

[ForeverN00b]

Interesting, I thought as much because I read a lot about people going brain-afk tankmode with the vette and 4-0-2, but do you have any information on if the dmg resistance scales up to the maximum of 75% that you can reach with boosters or goes over that?

It's independent of the 75% cap. In other words, you get the same proportional benefit whether you have highly resistant shields or stock shields.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Ok, thanks guys.
So I am still confused regarding 4 pips, one said shields stronger by 2.4 times, and another says +60% to all resistances ?

The two are different ways of saying the same thing - 60% less damage per hit means your shields last 2.4x as long.

extra question : I know that after +50% resistance we have diminishing returns,and a hard cap at 75%, correct ?
If so, and all my resistances are at 60%, and if 4 pips give +60%, we talking still hard cap at 75% ? if yes then someone with high resistances need not use 4 pips ?

It's independent, so even with high resistances you benefit fully from 4 pips.

Actual damage = Incoming damage * Pips resistance modifier * Other resistance modifiers

Other resistance modifiers have the 75% cap internally - the pips resistance is then applied separately without diminishing returns

 

[NecasekO]

Damage resistance from SYS pips is completely separate from other resistances and stacks fully. The different values given by different people are actually the same - 60% resistance translates to 2.5x effective strength (1 / (1 - 0.6) = 2.5).

So if you have say 50% resistance against thermal damage on your shield (as seen in statistics) and put 4 PIPs in sys for another 60% resistance, the calculation goes like this:

resulting damage = incoming damage * (1 - shield resistance) * (1 - SYS resistance)

There are no diminishing returns on resistance from SYS pips and yes, it is possible to have more than 75% total resistance.

 

[dognosh]

The two are different ways of saying the same thing - 60% less damage per hit means your shields last 2.4x as long.


It's independent, so even with high resistances you benefit fully from 4 pips.

Actual damage = Incoming damage * Pips resistance modifier * Other resistance modifiers

Other resistance modifiers have the 75% cap internally - the pips resistance is then applied separately without diminishing returns

Can't rep you again

question : High G planets, does 4 pips do anything for a face plant ?
(As I don't know type of planetary attack,thermal? kinetic? )

 

[Numenor1379]

Can't rep you again

question : High G planets, does 4 pips do anything for a face plant ?
(As I don't know type of planetary attack,thermal? kinetic? )

Did a bit of testing with my new Explorer Corvette on this exact issue the other day as I wanted to figure out what shielding I needed for accidents during canyon running:

These 7A G5 DD with Drag Drives are nuts on this build, Top Speed of 323m/s with the Boost at 419m/s.

Ship Mass: 1177.3t/1208.2t/2835t

Shield stats:
7D G5 Enhanced, Low Power with Stripped Down
6x E-grade Shield Boosters - 2x maxed G4 Thermal Resistant, 4x Heavy Duty G4 at about 75% complete (didn't want to spend the mats to max this at this time)
Shield Health: 1542MJ, Kinetic @ 36%, Thermal @ 21.5%, Explosive @ 46.7%

Total Mass of Shield and Boosters: 22.4t (if anyone has an idea to lower this further, but keep the same shielding level or make it better please let me know)

Test 1 - full throttle boost, 4 pips then into shields
Speed at impact- 418m/s
Shield health after impact - 48%

Test 2 - full throttle boost, 3 pips then into shields
Speed at impact - 413m/s
Shield health after impact - 22%

Test 3 - full throttle boost, 2 pips in shields
Speed at impact - 415m/s
Shield health after impact - 9%

Not 100% accurate as I was doing these tests on a console (PS4 player) but they are fairly close. The Kinetic Resistance doesn't help against physical impacts afaik, but the bonus strength the shields get does. This is why I tend to view Pips as a shield strength increase instead of a resistance buff.

 

[dognosh]

Did a bit of testing with my new Explorer Corvette on this exact issue the other day as I wanted to figure out what shielding I needed for accidents during canyon running:



Not 100% accurate as I was doing these tests on a console (PS4 player) but they are fairly close. The Kinetic Resistance doesn't help against physical impacts afaik, but the bonus strength the shields get does. This is why I tend to view Pips as a shield strength increase instead of a resistance buff.

Excellent, thank you my Middle Earth friend

 

[Thebadmf]

Its old but I believe it still applies.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/138536-SYS-PIP-Shield-Damage-Resistance-Tested

 

[dognosh]

Its old but I believe it still applies.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/138536-SYS-PIP-Shield-Damage-Resistance-Tested

TY , Except they have tweaked the numbers, but still relevant

 

[Truesilver]

Sys pip damage reduction works as follows:

4 pips to Sys = reduction by 60% of damage after all prior modifiers have been taken into account

Fewer pips to Sys = linear scale, eg, at 3 pips to Sys reduce by 45%, at 2 pips to Sys reduce by 30%. Same for half pips etc.

Its old but I believe it still applies.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/138536-SYS-PIP-Shield-Damage-Resistance-Tested

It was seminal work but it does NOT apply. Halfway through Season 2 Frontier changed Sys pip reduction to make it linear (effectively, buffing everything between half pip and 4 pips) and confirmed that at 4 pips reduction was 60%.

Cmdr StarLightBreaker's work was legendary but is superseded.

extra question : I know that after +50% resistance we have diminishing returns,and a hard cap at 75%, correct ?
If so, and all my resistances are at 60%, and if 4 pips give +60%, we talking still hard cap at 75% ? if yes then someone with high resistances need not use 4 pips ?

In relation to resistances, Sys pip reductions and resistances have nothing to do with one another. The 75% ceiling on resistances, the diminishing returns, these are all completely unrelated.

The game just calculates the final damage total before Sys pip reductions and then applies Sys pip reductions (if applicable). So at 75% resistance a further full division by 2.5 at 4 pips to Sys can indeed be made.

question : High G planets, does 4 pips do anything for a face plant ?
(As I don't know type of planetary attack,thermal? kinetic? )

Yes. Face plant = collision damage, Sys pip reductions apply in full.

 

[Hossi]

This version here is more up to date, meaning 2.3. Dont know if there where more changes since then

from here

 

[Jack Schitt]

As an aside, just in case anyone makes the same mistake I did, collision damage modifiers do not apply to the SRV's shields in the same way they apply to ships.

More SYS pips will protect you from skimmer fire for a little longer, but not against rolling down a canyon wall. I learned this the hard way and was educated by the community, and AFAIK this is still the case. For canyon-rolling you're better off with pips in ENG where the thrusters are more useful for guiding you towards more glancing impacts. Chances are you're still gonna die, but you might get a few metres nearer to the ground before it happens.

If that aspect has also changed, please re-educate me. This game changes faster that I can keep up with.

 

[dognosh]

As an aside, just in case anyone makes the same mistake I did, collision damage modifiers do not apply to the SRV's shields in the same way they apply to ships.

More SYS pips will protect you from skimmer fire for a little longer, but not against rolling down a canyon wall. I learned this the hard way and was educated by the community, and AFAIK this is still the case. For canyon-rolling you're better off with pips in ENG where the thrusters are more useful for guiding you towards more glancing impacts. Chances are you're still gonna die, but you might get a few metres nearer to the ground before it happens.

If that aspect has also changed, please re-educate me. This game changes faster that I can keep up with.

No, Shields have been useless on SRVs forever,except from enemy fire, hence why most of us switch off Shields to get better fuel mileage (not that it matters now that materials are easy to get,in the old days when we only got 1 per drop the mats were also rarer)

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Halfway through Season 2 Frontier changed Sys pip reduction to make it linear

For completeness, note that this change was not made to CQC, where anything less than 4 pips still might as well be 0 pips. (Despite the inconsistency it creates, this was probably the right decision)