End of the LTD Miners?

[NascentChemist]

Before 3.0 dropped, I loved pirating low temperature diamonds from NPC's yanked out of supercruise. I just finished rebuilding my pirate Cutter, and I haven't found a single miner with LTDs. I've seen bertrandite, coltan, and other dross. From competent up to Elite, none of the ~15 miners have had worthwhile cargo.

Have this LTD miners been completely replaced with the impossible-to-find "high value target" couriers?

 

[jonesskill]

Man at this exact moment im mining in EVE and asking myself WHY ED don't have a similar minig process...

Mining in ED requires to much effort to a low return, (very low return BTW), and also are a RNG fest and annoying because of those non sense limpets

EDIT:

At this exact moment, i've already covered the money i've wasted in my new ship/rebuy - im ming a lowprice bulk mineral, widouth any stupid limpet flying to death or "EXPIRING".

 

[Craith]

Not doing it myself buy I know of people who still do it successfully.

A T9 full of LTD's is a nice jackpot.

 

[NascentChemist]

Not doing it myself buy I know of people who still do it successfully.

A T9 full of LTD's is a nice jackpot.

People that do it post 3.0? Or maybe one of the more recent patches?

 

[Craith]

Afaik after some adjustments to their strategy without interruption. I'll pass them a link to this thread.

 

[Viktor Dracul]

Before 3.0 dropped, I loved pirating low temperature diamonds from NPC's yanked out of supercruise. I just finished rebuilding my pirate Cutter, and I haven't found a single miner with LTDs. I've seen bertrandite, coltan, and other dross. From competent up to Elite, none of the ~15 miners have had worthwhile cargo.

Have this LTD miners been completely replaced with the impossible-to-find "high value target" couriers?

LTD Mining is still a thing. Just make sure you're in a high population agriculture system and you should have no problem finding them. Check out CMDR WiggyB's you tube for additional tips as since 3.0 dropped the process is a little different (least of all because of the zero power plant bug affecting npc's).

 

[Rariano Majoy]

Mining is not a lucrative activity. If we decide to be miners or we are new to the game, or we decide to do this work to do out of the ordinary in the day to day of the game, but, of course, it is not made as a means to accumulate credits.

Something similar happens with piracy: one does it for fun but not as a way to accumulate credits quickly. I've been playing pirate for a few days following the instructions in this video:

[video=youtube_share;faPcNBGjpEM]https://youtu.be/faPcNBGjpEM[/video]

To make pirate work with a Python with 128 Ton of load and, apart from having fun doing that role of pirate, at the same time I'm collecting materials for engineers which I find more fun than to go around and around and around... Dav´s Hope with the SRV.

Even with the problem that exists with the losses of the canisters (the canisters are lost for time in pickup, distance, etc) and although piracy is not profitable for high levels of play, at least it becomes more enjoyable than the farming of materials in Dav´s Hope

Fly Safe !

 

[quelcertoleo]

NPC diamond piracy is profitable now that LTD prices have skyrocketed in the blackmarket.

As already suggested check WiggyB videos that explain the basic ABC of the whole process.

First go to EDDB and search for Agricultural Systems in Boom State and with Population above 1bn. Some people prefer to add Anarchy government as well so they can pirate freely without having to wait for the target to high wake away from secured systems.
Scan the target, if it has a mining laser then it has diamonds. Targets vary from Adders all the way up to T9s. Again, if it has a mining laser then it has diamonds. (and for me it is a target)

Once you interdict the target there are different techniques to fetch the cargo from the benefactor:
1) shield tanking
2) disabling drives and "bumping" the target to a stop
3) disabling the FSD, eventual point defence and all hardpoints, this will make the target "surrender" (my favourite technique)
The usual technique from 2.4 (disabling the powerplant) does not longer work, FDev is aware of the thing but so far no patch has been issued, so for now stick to one of the above methods.
Personally I do a mix of 1) and 3), it depends on the target.

For further reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHKBhttDJ_0

As for the "high value couriers" which go by the name of Private Courier Service, they are rare but so far I saw them spawning exclusively on Agricultural, High Pop, Boom and secured systems (medium to high security). They carry very valuable stuff but not much (30t at most).
Honestly I pirate them only if they really happen to come by me because they spawn rarely.

And on the profit discussion.
My pirate python carries 128t load of diamonds that sold on the black market generates approx 11mln. (this can be filled in 30minutes, perhaps less)
My 320t pirate cutter generates me approximately 26mln on a full load. (approx 1hr of playing time)

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Mining in ED requires to much effort to a low return, (very low return BTW), and also are a RNG fest and annoying because of those non sense limpets

Every single asteroid in Elite Dangerous has persistent reserves and refreshes after 2 hours. You can skip the RNG-fest bit by remembering where you found the good ones and returning to them in future. A reference point like a RES centre (which also significantly increases yields) or one of the rare ring-embedded stations helps, of course - or mine belt clusters rather than ring systems.

Combining that with wing operations - faster prospecting, cleaner collection, high-end wing trade bonuses - and selling Painite in Boom for 100,000 credits a tonne ... and you can earn money comparable to high-end mission running. Mining is probably the profession with the largest gap between 'casual' and 'min-maxed' earnings.

The limpets could be smarter, but if you position your ship correctly - align with the axis of rotation and get your nose right up to the rock - they can pick up the fragments and scoop them into your hold pretty much as they're mined, and you never lose a single one. (Belt cluster asteroids, which don't rotate, are easier to practice on)

 

[Red Fox Four]

The reason why mining in this game is total waste of time is because 99% of the crap you find in the asteroid belts is WORTHLESS.

In EVE you can mine different things and still get a profit out of it, even with basic rubbish like Veldspar.

But in Elite, mining anything other than LTDs is a massive waste of time. Not to mention effort with micromanaging the hellish hopper and venting rubbish constantly.

As for the pirate part of it... it also sucks camelballs since the only cargo worth going after is LTDs. Anything else is a ginormous waste of effort.

It's either LTD's or BUST.

Which makes 99% of the mining (and pirating miners) part of the game WORTHLESS.

 

[jasonbirder]

The reason why mining in this game is total waste of time is because 99% of the crap you find in the asteroid belts is WORTHLESS.

Imagine that WORTHLESS...Its not as if Mining generates steady profit (even more if you focus on the 3 Ps and throw in some Mining Missions too) more than enough to run and maintain a small mining ship and enough profit on the side to incrementally upgrade from small to medium to large miner (be that a T9 or whatever you prefer)

99% of the mining (and pirating miners) part of the game WORTHLESS

Ahhh, sorry..."can't immediately earn billions of credits to buy a Corvette and a gazillion rebuys" I see now!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

But in Elite, mining anything other than LTDs is a massive waste of time. Not to mention effort with micromanaging the hellish hopper and venting rubbish constantly.

The filters in 3.0 basically remove the entire micromanagement/venting aspect, provided that your refinery has at least as many slots as the number of materials you're interested in. The only things I've had to vent/dump since I got the filters set up has been spare limpets.

Painite and Platinum also have excellent sale prices (and higher drop rates) than LTDs ... five or six more can get decent effective profit/tonne from mining missions.


Agreed fully on piracy, though: the ultimate problem is that piracy has basically never been profitable (or even viable) in Elite-like settings, because making it practical for both pirates and traders to profitably exist is extremely difficult - it's just a way to add some opposition to the trader role and some targets for bounty hunters to shoot. Adding a wider variety of high-value NPC targets is only papering over the real issue that the role was never designed - from Elite I onwards - to be something a player did.

 

[quelcertoleo]

Wasn't this post originally intended by the OP about LTD piracy only? Why all this chatter about mining?
I understand (and support) that mining is utterly ignored as an activity, but it is not the original question asked by the OP.

 

[BarFly]

Hello,

i also do sometimes quite a bit of mining.
and lately the prices of Painite and Platinum are ~ 120,000 Cr and ~ 50,000
The cargo full of that, with 100 Palladium, 40 Painite and 50 Platinum (which is not unrealistic) pays almost 9 millions with my mining Python.
There is some micromanagment, but i don't bother about a 'Low' astro with just 5% Palladium and the rest Indite etc..
I'm running with 2 class 2 Mining Lasers a 4A Refinery and 2x 3A collectors, 1x 5A collector + 1x 1A prospector
https://eddp.co/u/18AtGV5U
You only get problems if you run into a lucrative astro right at the beginning, when your cargo hold is still full of limpets. I really fill up all the cargo with limpets.

 

[Rariano Majoy]

Once you interdict the target there are different techniques to fetch the cargo from the benefactor:
1) shield tanking
2) disabling drives and "bumping" the target to a stop
3) disabling the FSD, eventual point defence and all hardpoints, this will make the target "surrender" (my favourite technique)
The usual technique from 2.4 (disabling the powerplant) does not longer work, FDev is aware of the thing but so far no patch has been issued, so for now stick to one of the above methods.
Personally I do a mix of 1) and 3), it depends on the target.

I have tried to do the steps that you indicate but, almost always occurs to me that destroyed the ship before being able to disable -for example- the module FSD... you equip a ship with weapons not improved by engineers? I say that because I use MC´S with engineering upgrades and that can be my problem.

In any case and with respect to the gains of credits of this profession, I still think that it is unprofitable-especially thinking of players of high levels-but, where if it is profitable, at least for me, it is in the fun and it is not the fun precisely what we look for in any game?

Fly Safe !

 

[quelcertoleo]

I have tried to do the steps that you indicate but, almost always occurs to me that destroyed the ship before being able to disable -for example- the module FSD... you equip a ship with weapons not improved by engineers? I say that because I use MC´S with engineering upgrades and that can be my problem.

Hola! (deduced from your nick)
As a general rule of thumb: if the target rank is lower than "competent" then it will have useless hull so yes, the target will be easily destroyed in the process. T7s and T9s are the exceptions, I'm able to neutralise even novice T7s/T9s with some careful shooting. It takes trigger discipline to do it correctly.
The target has to be in the correct aspect also. E.g., if you shoot the lower hardpoint of a target while seeing the up side of a target then you will just impact the hull and cause damage to the target without hitting the module. You need to know where the module is located, this means knowing each ship in detail. For example, T7s have a hardpoint above, one below and two in the front. No point in shooting the front hardpoint when facing the back of the target.

As for the weapons.
Before 3.0, to disable the powerplant, the weapon of choice were Cannons. It really did not matter which mod (I went for lightweight), the important thing is the experimental effect which had to be High Yield. However these were terribly nerfed in 3.0 so cannons no longer work, at least not for me.
To disable the FSD I use pulse lasers, the mod or effect is irrelevant. The important thing, as written above, is shooting from the correct aspect, and at close range. I usually shoot only when below 500m. In my case I have long range pulses on my Cutter and efficient Beams on the python, but it is really irrelevant.
Multicannons are not a good choice (especially if corrosive!) because they do some damage to the hull. Lasers are more accurate. Multicannons work though with heavily armoured targets (rank master or above). Always shoot at close range (approx 500m, this makes for some interesting maneuvering with the cutter)
Disabling hardpoints and point defence are a very different matter. There's no other way than using seeker missiles for that. In the linked video WiggyB is using regular seeker missiles in a salvo of three (to have more possibility with point defence). I use Packhounds for this task, to me they are way more effective and I can carry a single packhound (engineered for ammo capacity grade 4) leaving some more hardpoints free.

In any case and with respect to the gains of credits of this profession, I still think that it is unprofitable-especially thinking of players of high levels-but, where if it is profitable, at least for me, it is in the fun and it is not the fun precisely what we look for in any game?

Fly Safe !

Completely agree. It is not about the credits, it is precisely about having fun

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Makes you wonder where those NPCs supposedly got those LTDs from

(after all, the LTD yields in Icy Rings are essentially close to non-existent)

 

[Rariano Majoy]

Hola! (deduced from your nick)

Ooooh thank you so much for the class! I will try to put the practice all your advice as soon as you get home after work

And, yes, I'm Spanish. I thought you were going to find out how badly I write in english and not the shame of the president we have -even worse is the president they have in the EEUU at least this is a consolation to the spaniards: others are worse than us -

Makes you wonder where those NPCs supposedly got those LTDs from

(after all, the LTD yields in Icy Rings are essentially close to non-existent)

I totally agree

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Man at this exact moment im mining in EVE and asking myself WHY ED don't have a similar minig process...

Mining in ED requires to much effort to a low return, (very low return BTW), and also are a RNG fest and annoying because of those non sense limpets

EDIT:

At this exact moment, i've already covered the money i've wasted in my new ship/rebuy - im ming a lowprice bulk mineral, widouth any stupid limpet flying to death or "EXPIRING".

They should add the Elite II mining robots that one just shoots into a planet or asteroid and let them work.

 

[jonesskill]

Every single asteroid in Elite Dangerous has persistent reserves and refreshes after 2 hours. You can skip the RNG-fest bit by remembering where you found the good ones and returning to them in future. A reference point like a RES centre (which also significantly increases yields) or one of the rare ring-embedded stations helps, of course - or mine belt clusters rather than ring systems.

Combining that with wing operations - faster prospecting, cleaner collection, high-end wing trade bonuses - and selling Painite in Boom for 100,000 credits a tonne ... and you can earn money comparable to high-end mission running. Mining is probably the profession with the largest gap between 'casual' and 'min-maxed' earnings.

The limpets could be smarter, but if you position your ship correctly - align with the axis of rotation and get your nose right up to the rock - they can pick up the fragments and scoop them into your hold pretty much as they're mined, and you never lose a single one. (Belt cluster asteroids, which don't rotate, are easier to practice on)

Don't give excuses man, limpets are the dumbest game implementation i ever see, specially when they are dumb like they are actually. (Not only in mining, those little s transform a little 300m run in a 1KM marathon trying to allign with the cargo hatch - with the ship stoped - )