Yet another problem with Punishment

[M00ka]

I was under the impression that one of the aims of the new C&P was to curtail the murder-hobos and in this regard, going by the forums at least, it has failed. The worst thing that can happen to these types of players is their ship gets destroyed - so they have to pay the insurance and whatever extra that is required. But since it seems they all seem to be billionaires, credits aren't a problem to them.

What I would like to see is an extra penalty if the player exceeds a Notoriety of 7. Instead of his modules just becoming hot, upon ship destruction all modules and weapons, well the entire ship is replaced by a stock standard one, same as they would have got if they just bought one from the shipyard. All the modules/weapons etc that were on the ship are gone, including any that were modified.

At least this way, they are punished by the one commodity they can't buy - time, time it will take to get all those mats to get the ship back to G5 God mode again.

I know I will cop flak over this, probably even a little abuse, but there needs to be some mechanism in the game that gives consequences to actions, and so far we really don't have one that works.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

What I would like to see is an extra penalty if the player exceeds a Notoriety of 7. Instead of his modules just becoming hot, upon ship destruction all modules and weapons, well the entire ship is replaced by a stock standard one, same as they would have got if they just bought one from the shipyard. All the modules/weapons etc that were on the ship are gone, including any that were modified.

You know you can get notoriety from NPCs?

There may be ways to discourage gankers, but this is not the way to do it. But you are quite right that the current C&P is failing in that regard.

 

[babelfisch]

I was under the impression that one of the aims of the new C&P was to curtail the murder-hobos and in this regard, going by the forums at least, it has failed. The worst thing that can happen to these types of players is their ship gets destroyed - so they have to pay the insurance and whatever extra that is required. But since it seems they all seem to be billionaires, credits aren't a problem to them.

What I would like to see is an extra penalty if the player exceeds a Notoriety of 7. Instead of his modules just becoming hot, upon ship destruction all modules and weapons, well the entire ship is replaced by a stock standard one, same as they would have got if they just bought one from the shipyard. All the modules/weapons etc that were on the ship are gone, including any that were modified.

At least this way, they are punished by the one commodity they can't buy - time, time it will take to get all those mats to get the ship back to G5 God mode again.

I know I will cop flak over this, probably even a little abuse, but there needs to be some mechanism in the game that gives consequences to actions, and so far we really don't have one that works.

Interesting thought but doesn't work well with the fact that killing players (and NPCs!) is part of the game. That's also true for murder hobos. Your idea would make these player types leave the game rather than adding consequences to their behaviour (like making med-high security systems dangerous for them).

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

For all rubberbanders: I think you have to high wake to see any notoriety updates.

 

[verminstar]

I was under the impression that one of the aims of the new C&P was to curtail the murder-hobos and in this regard, going by the forums at least, it has failed. The worst thing that can happen to these types of players is their ship gets destroyed - so they have to pay the insurance and whatever extra that is required. But since it seems they all seem to be billionaires, credits aren't a problem to them.

What I would like to see is an extra penalty if the player exceeds a Notoriety of 7. Instead of his modules just becoming hot, upon ship destruction all modules and weapons, well the entire ship is replaced by a stock standard one, same as they would have got if they just bought one from the shipyard. All the modules/weapons etc that were on the ship are gone, including any that were modified.

At least this way, they are punished by the one commodity they can't buy - time, time it will take to get all those mats to get the ship back to G5 God mode again.

I know I will cop flak over this, probably even a little abuse, but there needs to be some mechanism in the game that gives consequences to actions, and so far we really don't have one that works.

Problem being that ye get notoriety from npc as well as players, so its potentially punishing players who really are just playing the game as well as those gaming the game. It doesnt make the distinction between the two which is why it makes a normal players life harder, and doesnt even touch the issue of ganking and griefing. Maybe slows them down now and then but not by much and certainly doesnt stop them.

Minor stuff like fines and trivial crimes need to be handled better while I will somewhat agree that those committing worse crimes are punished harder. But only somewhat...there needs to be a clear line drawn between those players killing npc and just playing the game, and those who are anti social. Currently everyone is treated the same ^

 

[Marra Morgan]

Currently everyone is treated the same ^

Which, in my opinion, is fine.

 

[babelfisch]

But only somewhat...there needs to be a clear line drawn between those players killing npc and just playing the game, and those who are anti social. Currently everyone is treated the same ^

I think it's good that the game handles players and NPCs the same, for me that's definitely the right direction. The only difference between mindless killing of NPCs and mindless killing of players is the way you look for your victims. If we can't change the way we punish players you can only make players safer by buffing the environment in certain areas.

If I want to kill NPCs I don't need to go to CGs, Alien sites and capitol or starter systems.

 

[verminstar]

Which, in my opinion, is fine.

Is it? The sheer amount of salt over this would suggest otherwise and it doesnt make sense to boot...that means that a player just playing the game gets punished the exact same as someone griefing noobwinders. How does that make sense? Thats like comparing a mass murderer and a shoplifter and saying they are the same so are punished the same...

 

[verminstar]

I think it's good that the game handles players and NPCs the same, for me that's definitely the right direction. The only difference between mindless killing of NPCs and mindless killing of players is the way you look for your victims. If we can't change the way we punish players you can only make players safer by buffing the environment in certain areas.

If I want to kill NPCs I don't need to go to CGs, Alien sites and capitol or starter systems.

Just to pick up on that, I agree and like the way the system works, I just feel that small stuff is punished too harshly and that some stuff that should be better explained isnt...not in the game anyway but thats hardly a new issue, just a rehashed old issue of assuming players will work it out themselves or read it on the forums.

 

[babelfisch]

Is it? The sheer amount of salt over this would suggest otherwise and it doesnt make sense to boot...that means that a player just playing the game gets punished the exact same as someone griefing noobwinders. How does that make sense? Thats like comparing a mass murderer and a shoplifter and saying they are the same so are punished the same...

He is talking about the consequences for killing NPCs and the consequences for killing players. They are the same and that's a good thing. You are talking about the amount of ships that get killed and the consequences for that. They could indeed be harsher on the higher end.

Just to pick up on that, I agree and like the way the system works, I just feel that small stuff is punished too harshly and that some stuff that should be better explained isnt...not in the game anyway but thats hardly a new issue, just a rehashed old issue of assuming players will work it out themselves or read it on the forums.

Yes, I agree with that. The game desperately needs an ingame encyclopaedia. What I don't want are tooltips that stop you from playing until you confirmed that you understand it like the other generic modern games are doing it.

 

[PeLucheuh]

Is it? The sheer amount of salt over this would suggest otherwise and it doesnt make sense to boot...that means that a player just playing the game gets punished the exact same as someone griefing noobwinders. How does that make sense? Thats like comparing a mass murderer and a shoplifter and saying they are the same so are punished the same...

Are they really punished the same for just playing the game :S

Notoriety and Murder

• If the victim is a Commander (a player rather than an NPC) then you pay 10% percent per point of notoriety of the difference between your base rebuy cost, factoring in engineering, and the victim’s rebuy cost. If your cost is less than your victim’s, this will be zero. This is to de-incentivise destroying smaller ships than your own. This number, as well as others in the Beyond update, will be revisited and tweaked after launch to make sure the game is as balanced and enjoyable as possible.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Is it? The sheer amount of salt over this would suggest otherwise and it doesnt make sense to boot...that means that a player just playing the game gets punished the exact same as someone griefing noobwinders. How does that make sense? Thats like comparing a mass murderer and a shoplifter and saying they are the same so are punished the same...

Murder is murder. Whether it's an NPC or a player CMDR should not make a difference.

 

[verminstar]

Murder is murder. Whether it's an NPC or a player CMDR should not make a difference.

Even when a clean npc fires on you first and ye get notoriety fer defending yerself? Does the npc get notoriety fer firing first? Such a solution only works so long as the npc play by the same rules...they dont so in that respect I think its detrimental to normal gameplay ^

 

[Marra Morgan]

Even when a clean npc fires on you first and ye get notoriety fer defending yerself? Does the npc get notoriety fer firing first? Such a solution only works so long as the npc play by the same rules...they dont so in that respect I think its detrimental to normal gameplay ^

If a clean NPC fires on you first, it becomes Wanted and you can defend yourself legally.

 

[verminstar]

If a clean NPC fires on you first, it becomes Wanted and you can defend yourself legally.

No. thats not whats happening at all...the second ye fire back, ye get bounties and notoriety and incoming five O...so no, ye cant defend yerself legally. The only option to avoid escalating yer own notoriety is to brave sir robin outta there asap...is that working as intended?

 

[Marra Morgan]

No. thats not whats happening at all...the second ye fire back, ye get bounties and notoriety and incoming five O...so no, ye cant defend yerself legally. The only option to avoid escalating yer own notoriety is to brave sir robin outta there asap...is that working as intended?

Nope, you're categorically wrong here.

The only only time you'll incur a legal penalty for firing on an NPC who attacked you first is if you have Report Crimes turned off - which is a deliberate choice made by the player.

 

[M00ka]

Nope, you're categorically wrong here.

The only only time you'll incur a legal penalty for firing on an NPC who attacked you first is if you have Report Crimes turned off - which is a deliberate choice made by the player.

Don't forget there is a delay incurred when an NPC, either clean or wanted, fires on you first. You have to complete the scan on them before you fire, doesn't matter if they turn up red or not. If you don't complete the scan and open fire you will be rewarded with a wanted status and magically acquire a legal penalty.

So tell me, do NPCs have the same delay ?

 

[Marra Morgan]

Don't forget there is a delay incurred when an NPC, either clean or wanted, fires on you first. You have to complete the scan on them before you fire, doesn't matter if they turn up red or not. If you don't complete the scan and open fire you will be rewarded with a wanted status and magically acquire a legal penalty.

Nope, as of 3.03 you dont have to wait for the scan to complete if the NPC (or player) is already Wanted.

 

[verminstar]

Nope, you're categorically wrong here.

The only only time you'll incur a legal penalty for firing on an NPC who attacked you first is if you have Report Crimes turned off - which is a deliberate choice made by the player.

No, yer wrong because thats exactly what happened to me...unless yer suggesting I just imagined it?

 

[Marra Morgan]

No, yer wrong because thats exactly what happened to me...unless yer suggesting I just imagined it?

*sighs*

Look, I'm not going to sit here playing the "no you're wrong" game all day.

I'm stating how the system is intended to work, and as it works for me as I go about my nefarious life of crime in the game.

If you are experiencing anything other than as it's intended, file a bug report.