If someone from Fdev streams themselves unlocking all the Guardian tech. I will eat my eye patch.

[Jex =TE=]

I measure which games I should play and in what way by what I find fun, so it's the single most important yardstick. Never touching with a ten foot stick the sort of choices people who only ever complain make is also a factor in my gaming choices, and probably why I'm a happy gamer.

If you do an optional entertainment thing in a way you don't like you are not just doing it wrong, you are missing the whole point of why the thing exists.

We don't judge gameplay by what you think, arbitrarily. You also didn't address my post. I wasn't asking how you judge a game but by how the industry does and they design and make games.

You're not an authority, at all, on good game design. If you think the Guardians is then you've proved to everyone else what a low bar you set yourself and how you are not qualified to hold an opinion. Nobody in any gaming circle from designers to reviewers to gamers to critics are advocating a game play mechanic where you do the exact same thing 20 times.

So why are you arguing what seems to be FOR this type of gameplay - presumably you want more of this developed? That would be changing it from 18 to 50 - you'd be happy with that?

V2 engineers is really really easy, absolutely no grind involved at all. Especially with the mat traders and pinned blueprints.

V3 engineers.

 

[Skeloton]

We don't judge gameplay by what you think, arbitrarily. You also didn't address my post. I wasn't asking how you judge a game but by how the industry does and they design and make games.

You're not an authority, at all, on good game design. If you think the Guardians is then you've proved to everyone else what a low bar you set yourself and how you are not qualified to hold an opinion. Nobody in any gaming circle from designers to reviewers to gamers to critics are advocating a game play mechanic where you do the exact same thing 20 times.

So why are you arguing what seems to be FOR this type of gameplay - presumably you want more of this developed? That would be changing it from 18 to 50 - you'd be happy with that?



V3 engineers.

Worst bit is that it involves nothing but time as an obstacle.

 

[Stigbob]

We don't judge gameplay by what you think, arbitrarily. You also didn't address my post. I wasn't asking how you judge a game but by how the industry does and they design and make games.

You're not an authority, at all, on good game design. If you think the Guardians is then you've proved to everyone else what a low bar you set yourself and how you are not qualified to hold an opinion. Nobody in any gaming circle from designers to reviewers to gamers to critics are advocating a game play mechanic where you do the exact same thing 20 times.

So why are you arguing what seems to be FOR this type of gameplay - presumably you want more of this developed? That would be changing it from 18 to 50 - you'd be happy with that?

Why would I care what the industry go by ?, I completely ignore 99% of released games and make my own decisions based on my own preferences. One of which is never ever mimicking the playstyle of people who are obviously dreadfully unhappy with the outcome of their own choices.

Which in this thread would be don't grind.

V3 engineers.

I don't care mate I thought V1 was fine.

 

[Soon(TM)]

FDev need to change all the grind into progression and gib Immersion!

Grind+immersion+good mechanics+fun= Progression

 

[Jex =TE=]

Why would I care what the industry go by ?, I completely ignore 99% of released games and make my own decisions based on my own preferences. One of which is never ever mimicking the playstyle of people who are obviously dreadfully unhappy with the outcome of their own choices.

Which in this thread would be don't grind.



I don't care mate I thought V1 was fine.

LOL why care what the industry thinks? When we're arguing good game design we have to go by some standards. If you go by your own set of standards no wonder we're having issues communicatiing.

Can you also stop trying to steer the conversation off point and something about grind. We're not discussing that - we're talking good game design vs bad game design.

You hold that Guardians repetition is good game design? I'm actually not sure so it's a genuine question but I'd like to pin you down to an answer here and so far, it's been good chatting with you for what it's worth over the various threads

 

[Stigbob]

LOL why care what the industry thinks? When we're arguing good game design we have to go by some standards. If you go by your own set of standards no wonder we're having issues communicatiing.

Or no wonder I'm happier with my gaming choices than you, depends how you look at it. You need to know your own preferences to make good choices.

Can you also stop trying to steer the conversation off point and something about grind. We're not discussing that - we're talking good game design vs bad game design.

ED is a very well designed game, that's one of the reasons I like it. Grinding is all about people making the game boring for themselves, which is a much bigger issue here than design.

You hold that Guardians repetition is good game design? I'm actually not sure so it's a genuine question but I'd like to pin you down to an answer here and so far, it's been good chatting with you for what it's worth over the various threads

The repetition isn't by design it's by player choice. I'm looking forward to doing some well designed alien and mysterious guardian stuff when and if I feel like it, but then I've no intention of grinding at it so there's no reason for me to be worried.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

V3 engineers.

There has only been 2 versions of engineers. This one and the previous version.

 

[Drelthar]

Engineers are pretty irrelevant to what this thread is about to me.

This is about trying to get Frontier to listen to the players about this frankly, horrible design, which seems literally set up to make people log out and back in multiple times to perform the exact same action over and over again.

It's a massive shame, because, on it's own, that action is pretty cool and unique. Only when having to do it over and over again does it become hideous.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Or no wonder I'm happier with my gaming choices than you, depends how you look at it. You need to know your own preferences to make good choices.



ED is a very well designed game, that's one of the reasons I like it. Grinding is all about people making the game boring for themselves, which is a much bigger issue here than design.



The repetition isn't by design it's by player choice. I'm looking forward to doing some well designed alien and mysterious guardian stuff when and if I feel like it, but then I've no intention of grinding at it so there's no reason for me to be worried.

Could you explain how it's "very good design" when most of it is unfinished?

Also, repetition is very much in the design, esp. in guardians - what part of 18 times don't you get?

Repetition is in trading, A - B, back and forth - in hyperspacing.

I can prove ED is not a wel ldesigned game, quoting the devs themselves when it comes to making missions and them saying they were very limited with the mission maker that had. On top of that, all of the half finished products, all released buggy, broken or not up to standard and need a day 1 change (Eng v1 - which is why I kept correcting you).

From Galnet to being poorly worded and written to CG's being completed when they weren't ebcause reasons to the TG's attacking the space station - in exactly the same way, same voice over guy, same fires.

This is demonstrably bad game design by industry standards - nobody is interested in yours or mine personal standards.

Repetiton is player choice - no it isn't, not for the guardian mechanic - it's design into the game and if you say no again, you are literally arguing against reality and I can only assume the Stigbob I've been chatting to in the other threads has been taken over by something that has incredibly poor arguments.

You cannot keep repeating yourself - it doesn't make you right.

There has only been 2 versions of engineers. This one and the previous version.

Nope, V2 came right after the launch of V1 - when they had to increase storage and change it massively because literally the entire forums went ape.

 

[Stigbob]

Could you explain how it's "very good design" when most of it is unfinished?

Also, repetition is very much in the design, esp. in guardians - what part of 18 times don't you get?

Repetition is in trading, A - B, back and forth - in hyperspacing.

I can prove ED is not a wel ldesigned game, quoting the devs themselves when it comes to making missions and them saying they were very limited with the mission maker that had. On top of that, all of the half finished products, all released buggy, broken or not up to standard and need a day 1 change (Eng v1 - which is why I kept correcting you).

From Galnet to being poorly worded and written to CG's being completed when they weren't ebcause reasons to the TG's attacking the space station - in exactly the same way, same voice over guy, same fires.

This is demonstrably bad game design by industry standards - nobody is interested in yours or mine personal standards.

Repetiton is player choice - no it isn't, not for the guardian mechanic - it's design into the game and if you say no again, you are literally arguing against reality and I can only assume the Stigbob I've been chatting to in the other threads has been taken over by something that has incredibly poor arguments.

You cannot keep repeating yourself - it doesn't make you right.

You said earlier on they've made £120,000,000 from it, that's some pretty solid proof of great game design right there. Obviously I don't know where you got the figure from though, so pinch of salt.

 

[MottiKhan]

Eventually, I'm sure FD will get around to a balance patch on the Guardians. Until then, I'm ignoring them. I don't see anything on offer that interests me enough to do the lather, rinse, repeat of unlocking them.

But I have to say that the engineers are much better after 3.0. The first two iterations were pants. At least this one makes more sense.

 

[Stigbob]

Nope, V2 came right after the launch of V1 - when they had to increase storage and change it massively because literally the entire forums went ape.

It was just the serial whingers, grinding then complaining that's just a normal workday for FDEV.

 

[Logarius]

Could you explain how it's "very good design" when most of it is unfinished?

Also, repetition is very much in the design, esp. in guardians - what part of 18 times don't you get?

That's what I tried to explain to Stigbob in my last posts...

As a side note, maybe we should just recenter the thread towards the original topic.
When is the stream organized?

 

[Conch]

You said earlier on they've made £120,000,000 from it, that's some pretty solid proof of great game design right there. Obviously I don't know where you got the figure from though, so pinch of salt.

so NMS was on launch also good, they made quite some money of it..??

 

[Ralph Vargr]

That's what I tried to explain to Stigbob in my last posts...

As a side note, maybe we should just recenter the thread towards the original topic.
When is the stream organized?

In the year 2084, for the centennial collectors boxed edition release...

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Nope, V2 came right after the launch of V1 - when they had to increase storage and change it massively because literally the entire forums went ape.

Sorry, but functionaly it was exactly the same. An increase in storage does not equal a new version of engineers. Removing some commodity needs for engineered modules and tweaked a few ranges is not a new version . That is a slight tweaking of the existing one. It was still the same process.

There are only 2 versions of engineers. Nothing has changed massively until 3.0.

 

[MottiKhan]

Sorry, but functionaly it was exactly the same. An increase in storage does not equal a new version of engineers. Removing some commodity needs for engineered modules and tweaked a few ranges is not a new version . That is a slight tweaking of the existing one. It was still the same process.

There are only 2 versions of engineers. Nothing has changed massively until 3.0.

They removed commodities in the 2nd iteration. That was pretty major.

They also changed mat gathering to yield 3 mats/data instead of 1. It wasn't just the storage increase.

<edit> commodities </edit>

 

[Maka Gucci]

V2 engineers is really really easy, absolutely no grind involved at all. Especially with the mat traders and pinned blueprints.

It's much easier than it was admittedly. But it's totally dismissive to act as if there is no grind required when sitting in Deep Space waiting for random HGE's is still a thing, and while trading for g5 mats is such a slap in the face. The amount of CDC's required to g5 the number of HRPs in your average combat build, still demands hours of sitting in Deep Space, doing nothing but chasing signal sources.

That's not to speak of unlocking the engineers in the first place, and all of the guaranteed monotony that comes with delivering repeated quantities of rares.

Be objective, and be honest. It wont undermine your point so much.

 

[Stigbob]

That's what I tried to explain to Stigbob in my last posts...

As a side note, maybe we should just recenter the thread towards the original topic.
When is the stream organized?

The bit I repeatedly explained to you, is that you don't need to do it beyond collecting carrots. The grind is a purely self inflicted thing there's only so many carrots you need.

so NMS was on launch also good, they made quite some money of it..??

I wouldn't know I used knowledge of my own gaming preferences plus having a look at what they were actually making in gameplay video's and didn't buy it.

What happened to the crazy lad who threatened to go round to the NMS office with a rifle when they announced a delay ?.

 

[MottiKhan]

The bit I repeatedly explained to you, is that you don't need to do it beyond collecting carrots. The grind is a purely self inflicted thing there's only so many carrots you need.

Now I want carrots. What is it with food here?

Steamed lightly, of course. None of that raw rabbit food for me.

Mmm. Rabbit.