WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Justifying unbalance sure seems to be a popular thing on these forums. Such a damn shame.
Mercs of Mikunn - 3 Year report: The Once Secret BGS mechanics and how to figure out exploits
- Thread starter Walt Kerman
- Start date
Justifying unbalance sure seems to be a popular thing on these forums. Such a damn shame.
That's a less than stellar response.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Well sorry man, thats basically whats going on here.
There is only so many times people can explain it to ya. You've been trying to justify what happening here for 3/4's of this thread lol.
Walt has not only proven its being done. Hes went into great detail in why its wrong.
The same go with Risk and Reward in other parts of the forums.
Then you have failed to understand what I've said.
Do you even BGS? Serious question.
Regardless, have a fulfilling day.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Yes.
Regardless on what side the various people in this thread position themselves, the Q4 update coming this year will (according to FD) give the Exploration data a complete overhaul and grant it a much bigger impact on the BGS. Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Exploration data pretty much the only part in the BGS workings where both the amount of transactions and the total value are factored in how it affects a Systems %?
So it'll be interesting to see how that will turn out. Until that update comes and we test and see the results, we can discuss further on the matter but shouldn't expect or demand any changes beforehand.
The BGS needs fine tuning and no sledgehammer methods. And yes, it's been going on for years and probably will continue to do so. Change that is supposed to last never comes easy or quick.
So it'll be interesting to see how that will turn out. Until that update comes and we test and see the results, we can discuss further on the matter but shouldn't expect or demand any changes beforehand.
The BGS needs fine tuning and no sledgehammer methods. And yes, it's been going on for years and probably will continue to do so. Change that is supposed to last never comes easy or quick.
To the best of my knowledge, no.
1 system = 1 trade, as far as I know. I certainly treat them the same, and it hasn't tripped me up yet. Yet.
Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
Exploration data currently has the lowest possible impact per transaction. It is however storable - the only BGS manipulator that properly is. In the recent bad old days it used to take approximate 4 hours collecting data exploration to counter 20 minute murder spree. With the new C&P system, the time taken to accumulate the same amount of negative BGS points has increased. I've got out of the habit of collecting 200 systems a day since 3.0 dropped.
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Balance went outa window in 2.1 anyway.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
It all matters the minute other players are involved.
And like you admitted on your own in the BGS thread i asked about.
Why is it we engineer our ships? But we dont end up using them for late game activities?
The depth of the BGS is something people that people dont even know about. They arent going to use the tricks either that veterans have either. All the information needs to be upfront.
Also, its pretty crappy when you engineer a ship. Pre 3.0, because its much easier now.
But its crappy when all that engineering you have done. Is shelved besides a barebones ship and a FSD.
Again, this is all something we learn early in the game when trading for a CG or hauling for Credits. NPC's are a challenge for the beginner but nothing more than a farming tool for a vet. So any Vet such as myself can use the Barebones ship, in which we do to make an impact.
Why would we play and learn the game, the skill, the outfitting, the engineering and the knowledge. Just to park all of those things we learned? Just because its easier when a trick is found. A trick no one else knows.
We should be using what we worked for, we should getting paid for what we worked for and we should have recognition for what we worked for.
Again, were not doing any of this here. You dont need any of that stuff,
You dont need to progress in this game. And to the people that have progressed feels like their time was wasted. A lot of us out there feel that way.(yes i get it some wont but a lot of us do).
And now people that havnt progressed can use a smaller ship and make a bigger impact compared to the person that put in the time. Not only that, the person that hasnt progressed as far is rewarded the same with this "one click feature". A SOLO/PG type 7 can be effective as a loaded out anaconda built for Open in defenses carrying the same load.
Again, WE DONT NEED ANYTHING WE WORKED FOR.
And its Bull.
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Jane Turner
Volunteer Moderator
Noone forced you to engineer your ship!
BGS-wise a medium pad ship is generally more use than a large one - it gives you more options. Likewise a multi-role ship is King. Cobra then Python. Flexibility and keeping your options open is the key. Engineering is irrelevant to the BGS because PvP is entirely irrelevant to the BGS, and a unengineered ship is more than a match for NPCs.
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WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Nailed it.
To your edit: How many threads do you see complaining about how this game is a grind. And then they find out this?
Are you joking right now?
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speak for yourself, my experience is rather different. Engineering has allowed me to build a BGS toolkit of different ships for different jobs. I could do it all in a cobra, i wouldn't enjoy it half as much.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Same here. I use a Python, But thats irrelevant.
What I am saying is you dont need it
I can buy a new account. And have the same impact as my engineered ships for open. As a barebones type 6 does does in PG. Now if I took that Type6 with this information thats clearly new to people here, but something thats been around for a while. The guy with a second colonia account. Can fly out there. And tank a whole players system skipping 75% of the game and features we paid for. The whole expansion that is Horizons is completly useless besides planetary landing for the bases that are out there.
You dont need to progress in this game.
And if the guy doesnt know about the 1 click feature. RIP that faction. Along with other no floor methods in which I wont go into.
Doesnt this make people scratch their heads at all?
Do I need to stream it? Maybe ill just stream it.
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While you have to take a longer path, that is also an exploit because it multiplies your effect by 5 in a way the devs did not intend. Also I never called you a cheat, but you are still using exploits as pretty much half the groups in this game are doing.
And I did respond to your points both in a post and and edit I posted straight to the OP.
^^^ Since you must have missed it because you also posted this:
Again, by definition, using the game design may be intentional, but the exploit is by defintion using that design to a players advantage in a way the designers did not intend.
Thanks [up]
That's because some, like Monkey, don't want change, understandably because they use it to have a massive effect on the game just like my group does. Its odd because we have some of BGS people who have been playing for years who by now have accumulated enough money to buy many large ships defending the poor player in the small ships, saying they should be able to affect the game equally, while these exact mid game players keep coming in here horrified.
Change is rarely welcomed with open arms. They are afraid the space they have built for themselves will be too large to manage if we switch to an effort based system.
Im refering to value by utility really. In other words, how valuable is the work to the faction. Bounty hunting all day should be worth far more to a faction in influence gain than one or two turn ins. You can even use transactions to achieve a value based system. By iterating transactions into smaller chunks like murder is, where every murder is a transaction, you essentially achieve a value (utility) based system where effort reflects your influence reward.
...so the entire mechanic, but people have been confusing what I mean when I say value.
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The transactional nature of the BGS is no secret to anyone who has tried for about 5 mins to get information, or found the BGS subforum here.
I would say by now, lack of knowledge of 1-click a BGS player only has him- or herself to blame for, whereas the players and player groups who figured all of this out have shared this around with interested parties. This knowledge has helped us through random traffic peaks, like sudden popular skimmer massacre missions and their disastrous effects. (Not to mention the joy of figuring out the mechanics. I see some request for clear instructions/manual. You miss the best part then! And even when you know the mechanics themselves, there is so much more depth to follow...)
The bit that is the biggest protection against random money grinders and mercenaries is exactly what you are objecting against. Whereas the best part is that knowledge and skill wins out over straight value grinding, and how to best apply your understanding of a set of basic rules that interplay in deeply complex ways. I think it's brilliant that ED allows us to have essentially multiple games overlaid on top of each other that don't hurt each other too much: 1) the straight I-just-do-what-I-want, not-caring-about-BGS-or-PP, 2) BGS faction work, and 3) Power Play --- which bleed into each other, but rarely truly mess up the game of someone involved in another.
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BTW, to clear any sense of self-interest. A value based system would almost certainly help AEDC factions, as the vast majority of the systems we work with are in well-trafficked areas. Rather than hurt the factions, it would make them steamroll through the galaxy without direction. Popular bounty hunting areas would constantly expand. It would entrench factions with many assets with virtually no ability to counter. (which wouldn't be fun for anyone) Large factions would soon eat up large areas of the bubble.
Just because someone doesn't want to add a few extra stops to their trade routes, or stay in the CZ or res for longer stretches... You also don't have to min-max every trip. Only 1-clicking will kill your joy in the game.
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I talked to an empire group that was 3 years old and have been heavily involved in their power play faction who didn't know just two weeks ago. There is a lot of conflicting information floating around. Sure it was available to you readily within your bubble in elite, but its the opposite of intuitive. You are kidding yourself if you thought most players know this.
You wouldnt steam roll anymore than you do now with value. Random traffic helps the station owner now just like it would in a value or utility based system.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
How many people circle davs hope? Relog and do it again? 1-clicking maybe a kill joy. But when it comes to being effective. no matter the case. People are going to chose whats effective over gameplay.
You're only hindering yourself in not doing so.
(By the way this used to be effective. Now that 3.0 dropped. Its super easy to get mats in other places than davs hope. Material Trader and buffs to Materials in general is a huge plus. Before 3.0 Davs hope was the most efficient. Oh and any credit fountain also proves this.) Oh and Healies for Feelies 2.0. Materials for days. AFK too.
I dont care if its a game, or cutting coupons for a grocery store, maybe buying something 75% off from newegg eh? How about them video card prices that are finally dropping after bitcoin tanked? People werent buying those cards.
People are going to be effective. Its all about effectiveness. There are people in the know. And there are people fighting a lost fight before it even started.
And thats a problem my dude.
Wanna know what this game is? One giant psychology experiment. You get to see how people act when given whats available. Think about it. Its pretty neat though.
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Grinders without imagination don't get very far. You can 1-click all you want, it won't matter if I block you in constant conflict elsewhere, just to keep you busy, and wear you out.
I understand effectiveness.
Moreover, BGS is about longevity. If you don't keep it fun for yourself, you burn out, and the moment you don't play, all your gains are likely to be lost.
I understand effectiveness.
Moreover, BGS is about longevity. If you don't keep it fun for yourself, you burn out, and the moment you don't play, all your gains are likely to be lost.