PvP PvP Meta of the Month Club

Herbrand

Herbrand
jasonbarron said:
The Drag special can be super irritating to apply, but generally speaking missiles are not very useful against shields. Get them shields down, though, and it's bye bye hardpoints.
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AzraelDirge said:
They absolutely destroy hardpoints on anything without a shield.
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ALGOMATIC said:
Yes its an I win button against hull tanks
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Did I get this right? All I need to do to win against a hybrid tank is bring his shields down once and get a lock?
If this is true this strikes me as very poor balance, like a rock-paper-scissor where you have 20 symbols, but one of them wins against half the others.

Last week I had a duel against a hybrid build CMDR that vastly outclassed me, skill-wise; I brought his shields down 4-5 times before losing. I would have felt like cheating if I could had won by spamming packhounds.
 

ALGOMATIC

Banned
A
Herbrand said:
Did I get this right? All I need to do to win against a hybrid tank is bring his shields down once and get a lock?
If this is true this strikes me as very poor balance, like a rock-paper-scissor where you have 20 symbols, but one of them wins against half the others.

Last week I had a duel against a hybrid build CMDR that vastly outclassed me, skill-wise; I brought his shields down 4-5 times before losing. I would have felt like cheating if I could had won by spamming packhounds.
Click to expand...

That exactly right, vs bi weave fas, remove the shields, keep your distance to avoid TLBs and spam hounds as long as the shields are down. Soon the MRPs will be depleated and the weapons will start taking damage.
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Herbrand said:
Did I get this right? All I need to do to win against a hybrid tank is bring his shields down once and get a lock?
If this is true this strikes me as very poor balance, like a rock-paper-scissor where you have 20 symbols, but one of them wins against half the others.

Last week I had a duel against a hybrid build CMDR that vastly outclassed me, skill-wise; I brought his shields down 4-5 times before losing. I would have felt like cheating if I could had won by spamming packhounds.
Click to expand...

It can be easier said then done against a particularly skilled CMDR of course, and it takes more than one or two hits and there are soft counters, but yeah, missiles are OP.
 

Truesilver

Truesilver
ALGOMATIC said:
I dont agree that shield tanking prism FDL with all HD boosters aka Kurt Ansa build is an advantage over the biweave hybrid FDL.

With prism FDL you are stuck at 4 0 2 and hardly move, relying on eating damage rather than evading. A skilled biweave dynamic pip management FDL will eat the prism FDL easily. As for gimbaled multis they are countered with TLB and chaff.
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No, it is that those who have typically chosen to equip full FdL absolute hp in the past have also typically been the sort of pilots who cannot or choose not to evade. Nothing mandates the use of 4-0-2 pips. The heaviest FdL you can possibly make comes in at roughly 545 mps compared to the lightest you can possibly make at roughly 30 mps faster.

Yet the 545 mps FdL is about as fast as the fastest FdL that could be made in 2.4. The difference in thruster strength, turn rates and so on between fastest and slowest 3.0 FdL is negligible.

We need to abandon the mythology. A max hp supposedly 'fat' FdL with 3 or 4 pips to Eng is evasive as anything that we have ever seen before 3.0. This is why the combination with gimbals is OP: freedom from aiming means that single or double chaff can be outlasted at which point the advantages of auto-aim off-line gimbals in a skilled 1v1 outweigh pilot-aim on-line plasma TLB/Dispersal counters.

Herbrand said:
Did I get this right? All I need to do to win against a hybrid tank is bring his shields down once and get a lock?
If this is true this strikes me as very poor balance, like a rock-paper-scissor where you have 20 symbols, but one of them wins against half the others.

Last week I had a duel against a hybrid build CMDR that vastly outclassed me, skill-wise; I brought his shields down 4-5 times before losing. I would have felt like cheating if I could had won by spamming packhounds.
Click to expand...

It is terrible balance. I have tried to get it changed and so far failed. See my thread here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...EMISSIVE-STACKED-PACKHOUNDS-Please-test-guys!

And example vid from that thread:

[video=youtube_share;njDy9ZhTFOQ]https://youtu.be/njDy9ZhTFOQ[/video]

However, note that it depends upon how many packhounds you have and how tanky the enemy is. Also they can shield hard points via positioning to an extent and dodge / range run also.

Last night I destroyed the guns on JB's gunship in the duel he referenced earlier but it took several shield drops to do it (and the shield drops were slow because I was using a primarily laser build). I was using only one packhound rack.

However, even that was a rare occurrence for me and actually because I'd just made the rack. I usually prefer a corrosive multi in place of the rack as I feel it makes for a fairer and more interesting fight for both Cmdrs.
 
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The Replicated Man

T
ALGOMATIC said:
That exactly right, vs bi weave fas, remove the shields, keep your distance to avoid TLBs and spam hounds as long as the shields are down. Soon the MRPs will be depleated and the weapons will start taking damage.
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Pretty sure seekers will take out the guns long before the MRP is depleted. They are external modules.
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Truesilver said:
No, it is that those who have typically chosen to equip full FdL absolute hp in the past have also typically been the sort of pilots who cannot or choose not to evade. Nothing mandates the use of 4-0-2 pips. The heaviest FdL you can possibly make comes in at roughly 545 mps compared to the lightest you can possibly make at roughly 30 mps faster.

Yet the 545 mps FdL is about as fast as the fastest FdL that could be made in 2.4. The difference in thruster strength, turn rates and so on between fastest and slowest 3.0 FdL is negligible.

We need to abandon the mythology. A max hp supposedly 'fat' FdL with 3 or 4 pips to Eng is evasive as anything that we have ever seen before 3.0. This is why the combination with gimbals is OP: freedom from aiming means that single or double chaff can be outlasted at which point the advantages of auto-aim off-line gimbals in a skilled 1v1 outweigh pilot-aim on-line plasma TLB/Dispersal counters.



It is terrible balance. I have tried to get it changed and so far failed. See my thread here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...EMISSIVE-STACKED-PACKHOUNDS-Please-test-guys!

And example vid from that thread:


However, note that it depends upon how many packhounds you have and how tanky the enemy is. Also they can shield hard points via positioning to an extent and dodge / range run also.

Last night I destroyed the guns on JB's gunship in the duel he referenced earlier but it took several shield drops to do it (and the shield drops were slow because I was using a primarily laser build). I was using only one packhound rack.

However, even that was a rare occurrence for me and actually because I'd just made the rack. I usually prefer a corrosive multi in place of the rack as I feel it makes for a fairer and more interesting fight for both Cmdrs.
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I lost track of how long the fight lasted, but I was vaguely surprised how long my hardpoints lasted given how many packhound volleys I was eating. I had only 2x PA's for the second half of the fight, and I was able to shoulder into the missiles to keep them alive for a little while. But your first two volleys pretty much stripped everything else right away. And my ship is super duper tanky.
 

The Replicated Man

T
Herbrand said:
Seekers however can be countered with a couple of Point Defences, Pack Hounds can't.
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All depends on the placement of the point defense and what ship you are running in. Usually PD is worthless
 

Herbrand

Herbrand
In short, the only fair fight is one where both ships are exactly the same.

Well I rest my case - hit me up if you want a match with barebone Eagles with fixed kinetics only.
 

Frenotx

Frenotx
Truesilver said:
No, it is that those who have typically chosen to equip full FdL absolute hp in the past have also typically been the sort of pilots who cannot or choose not to evade. Nothing mandates the use of 4-0-2 pips. The heaviest FdL you can possibly make comes in at roughly 545 mps compared to the lightest you can possibly make at roughly 30 mps faster.

Yet the 545 mps FdL is about as fast as the fastest FdL that could be made in 2.4. The difference in thruster strength, turn rates and so on between fastest and slowest 3.0 FdL is negligible.

We need to abandon the mythology. A max hp supposedly 'fat' FdL with 3 or 4 pips to Eng is evasive as anything that we have ever seen before 3.0. This is why the combination with gimbals is OP: freedom from aiming means that single or double chaff can be outlasted at which point the advantages of auto-aim off-line gimbals in a skilled 1v1 outweigh pilot-aim on-line plasma TLB/Dispersal counters.



It is terrible balance. I have tried to get it changed and so far failed. See my thread here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...EMISSIVE-STACKED-PACKHOUNDS-Please-test-guys!

And example vid from that thread:


However, note that it depends upon how many packhounds you have and how tanky the enemy is. Also they can shield hard points via positioning to an extent and dodge / range run also.

Last night I destroyed the guns on JB's gunship in the duel he referenced earlier but it took several shield drops to do it (and the shield drops were slow because I was using a primarily laser build). I was using only one packhound rack.

However, even that was a rare occurrence for me and actually because I'd just made the rack. I usually prefer a corrosive multi in place of the rack as I feel it makes for a fairer and more interesting fight for both Cmdrs.
Click to expand...

Thanks for telling it as it is. Combat balance is a shambles, and if you take advantage of the more out-of-line bits of it, there's not really anything an equally skilled pilot can do other than copy you.
 

CMDR Cknarf

CMDR Cknarf
I reinforced the drives on my FAS so I can preserve my guns. I call it asstanking.

I sometimes run a high cap seeker on my iEagle so I can challenge federal mediums to a 1v1, shoot off all their guns, and pretend I'm good.
 
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