I recently watched my Grandmother die in a Hospital that even the Soviet Union would have been embarrassed by. Nobody gives a crap about Gloucester though; not even labour.
General / Off-Topic Mental health services...rant incoming
- Thread starter verminstar
- Start date
- Status
I recently watched my Grandmother die in a Hospital that even the Soviet Union would have been embarrassed by. Nobody gives a crap about Gloucester though; not even labour.
I am sorry you are having problems. But, coming from a system that caters to the wealthy, you would be in a worse boat in the US. At least where you are, you have a hope of treatment. Here, without insurance, the only support you can hope for would be living within the welfare system. Even with insurance, the costs are so prohibitive, that you can wind up in bankruptcy fairly quickly.
Add to these costs, the social stigma of dealing with mental illness...and the suffering caused to these people in their lives is truly horrifying.
I have no answers, and your frustration is completely understandable....just realize that what you are facing is, quite possibly, better than what you would face elsewhere.
verminstar
Banned
As an actually trained clinical neuropsychologists (yeah, a real internet expert here!) I'll just say this: the reason cannabis isn't used is primarily because there is almost no scientific knowledge about its effects on people with autism. The reason there is no knowledge is not because there is no reason to study it, but because it is a) illegal in most countries, and b) impossible to get funding to study it. Nevertheless, there is a growing body of literature suggesting cannabidiol (or CBD) has many beneficial health effects for people with a variety of mental disorders, whereas tetrahydrocannabinol (or THC) is more problematic. While having kids smoke cannabis is obviously a terrible idea (I am sure I dont need to explain the health risks of smoking...), I myself would be far more comfortable with kids eating food with added CBD than using ritalin, which is basically a form of amphetamine. For adults where cannabis is legal
I am obviously not advocating for or against anything, but I do feel it is important to keep in mind that the distinction between legal medication and illegal drugs is a cultural and legal one, not a medical or scientific one. Just my 2c.
Im not even gonna try and argue with that because yer absolutely correct...but then ye already knew that. CBD and THC are actually notoriously difficult to completely separate using old fashion cloning techniques and home made DIY equipment...to be done properly, it needs to be done by professionals who do it fer a living in a more controlled area or grown from seed.
From my point of view, I was smoking and eating edibles long before I had MS...now I merely have a more valid excuse in the eyes of society than merely cos it calmed me down. My anger issues go back into my early childhood...a real uncontrolled rage that can be very destructive if not managed.
Last time I was in the system, those real smart doctors went and made it so much worse...they did more damage in 3 months that took years to correct. No reason why one cant enjoy the medicine...I compare it to those who like a few beers or a bottle of wine in terms of how serious I take the issue and Im tee total, dont drink at all. I enjoy it...therefore I do it...I dont need another reason tbh but theres a few there anyway to choose from.
That being said, I know it can do damage to those with more complex psychological conditions like autism. Certain strains do cause extreme paranoia, that being the downsides to the benefits but heres the catch...not all strains do that, in fact its only a small number that do actually cause issues, but people tend to focus more on the negatives and judge the entire book by its cover.
Oh and we all need to quit with the references to smoking cos I actually only smoke it when Im lazy and cant be bothered making shortbread or cookies. Edibles are way better in every way and even the oil can be vaped or even sprinkled on yer friday night chicken curry and ye wouldnt even know it was there unless someone told ye afterwards.
Anyway no...I wont set my daughter on that path because put simply, its not my choice to make and it could possibly make things worse. I know what works fer me and theres no single argument here thats gonna change that, but as regards my daughter...rest assured I wont go down that route while theres even a small chance the system hasnt just spat her out yet.
She has another referral which has been marked urgent...I have the school VP to thank fer that one after she called the doctor herself and was reported to have screamed down the phone once or twice, just as frustrated as the rest of us. The school I cant fault as they have bent over backwards to help, but theres only so much they can do...on this occasion however, I am assured the school might swing things a bit more in my favour. Thats a powerful ally to have in ones corner, I can assure ye I wont bite the hand that feeds and Ill take my chances on the legal route so long as its still there.
I can look after meself and whatever damage Ive done or am doing to meself is something I can live with...at the rate Im going, Im reckoning another 15 years and thats optimistic. I tend to care a lot less about long term damage these days...bit late to worry about that now at this late stage in the game. Ill be cheating nature of her last laugh by choosing my own time to depart...I refuse to be a burden...that dont sit right with me.
But my daughter is another matter...right now Im still strong enough and ugly enough to get her through her childhood in one piece. Id rather do that without having to fall back to desperate measures. I wont have my daughter turning out just like me...I cant depart happy if she did...so no weed fer her. And she knows that when I say no, I mean no...she knows better than to defy me on that and she knows she couldnt hide it cos one of my talents is seeing angles and things nobody else sees...and because Im just better at it than she is cos Ive had more practice.
Her IQ might be better than mine...by a fairly big margin actually although ironically enough, my grammar is better...Im just lazy when I write...but Im better at being naughty and I enjoy having much less empathy than her, to the point where I can be quite cold...she get completely overwhelmed with empathy overload and she simply ceases to function fer an hour or 3. Nobody else can calm her down as effectively as me...her own mother didnt even know where to begin and simply tried to ignore the issue existed...she was mad at me fer being the genetic fault so I couldnt argue. She never said as much, but we were married fer ten years...some things ye just know even though its never talked about.
And mods, Im sorry it went into this direction but I do feel better fer having shared it with someone. It helps that nobody knows me here...anyways, its that time again. I feel the need...the need fer wee...Im a lost cause...ye probably knew that already too ^
Last edited:
That's a heartbreaking situation to be in Verminstar.
Hopefully I can make some suggestions that won't be telling you how to suck eggs. I work as a Mental Health Advocate in Yorkshire so have direct experience of getting people help through the system. Almost always frustrating but can be successful although what's available will depend on exactly where you are.
Ethelred's point about making noise is a good one. Complaints to the trust (not local services) can work, and they can be followed up to the Ombudsman where you can point to them being discriminatory or not following their own procedures and service aims. Local MP (or equivalent if they care about autism/MH), media etc are all useful at pushing the case.
You say you've tried a legal route? If you can point at other local children with similar challenges to your own and they are getting help when yours is not then they are breaking the law and that is absolutely something where you can take them to court, or start with a complaint telling them they've broken the law and you'll take it further if the support doesn't change. Something like CAB could point at a solicitor to help with this.
And frankly the 'specialist' you saw is another thing to raise.
The Patient and Client Council look like they are the place to get help with a complaint.
and the NICE guidelines on autism support for children. Worth quoting stuff like this in a complaint:
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg170
Obviously I'm not local so don't know how good these organisations are but worth getting in touch (if you haven't already) as they'll know about what local services are available including support groups and might be able to help :
http://www.autism.org.uk/services/ni.aspxhttp://
http://www.autisminitiatives.org/where-we-are/northern-ireland/
http://www.autismni.org/
Also, contact advocacy services, (not that I have a vested interest or anything). They should know the best way to work through the local system to get the help your daughter needs, and as ethlred says the right advocate can open doors. First page might be out of date:
http://www.northerntrust.hscni.net/livewell/1800.htm
http://www.northerntrust.hscni.net/services/1801.htm
Lastly there's a conference in Dublin that would be free for you and your daughter (no idea how far away you are). Might be another way to get information and connect with help.
https://www.inspirewellbeing.org/ne...hor-ron-suskind-to-speak-at-autism-conference
Lots of internet links, and apologies if you've seen/tried it all before. Wish you were local and I, or one of my pitbull colleagues, could take on your case.
Feel free to pm, all the best.
Hopefully I can make some suggestions that won't be telling you how to suck eggs. I work as a Mental Health Advocate in Yorkshire so have direct experience of getting people help through the system. Almost always frustrating but can be successful although what's available will depend on exactly where you are.
Ethelred's point about making noise is a good one. Complaints to the trust (not local services) can work, and they can be followed up to the Ombudsman where you can point to them being discriminatory or not following their own procedures and service aims. Local MP (or equivalent if they care about autism/MH), media etc are all useful at pushing the case.
You say you've tried a legal route? If you can point at other local children with similar challenges to your own and they are getting help when yours is not then they are breaking the law and that is absolutely something where you can take them to court, or start with a complaint telling them they've broken the law and you'll take it further if the support doesn't change. Something like CAB could point at a solicitor to help with this.
And frankly the 'specialist' you saw is another thing to raise.
The Patient and Client Council look like they are the place to get help with a complaint.
and the NICE guidelines on autism support for children. Worth quoting stuff like this in a complaint:
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg170
Obviously I'm not local so don't know how good these organisations are but worth getting in touch (if you haven't already) as they'll know about what local services are available including support groups and might be able to help :
http://www.autism.org.uk/services/ni.aspxhttp://
http://www.autisminitiatives.org/where-we-are/northern-ireland/
http://www.autismni.org/
Also, contact advocacy services, (not that I have a vested interest or anything). They should know the best way to work through the local system to get the help your daughter needs, and as ethlred says the right advocate can open doors. First page might be out of date:
http://www.northerntrust.hscni.net/livewell/1800.htm
http://www.northerntrust.hscni.net/services/1801.htm
Lastly there's a conference in Dublin that would be free for you and your daughter (no idea how far away you are). Might be another way to get information and connect with help.
https://www.inspirewellbeing.org/ne...hor-ron-suskind-to-speak-at-autism-conference
Lots of internet links, and apologies if you've seen/tried it all before. Wish you were local and I, or one of my pitbull colleagues, could take on your case.
Feel free to pm, all the best.
Powerful ally indeed, finger's crossed.
verminstar
Banned
Many people use terms such as 'hallucinogenic' and 'psychotropic' etc interchangeably, as a more fancy alternative to 'wacky stuff'. There is some literature suggesting a link between schizophrenia and cannabis, although causality is unclear. Originally it was assumed cannabis could trigger psychotic episodes, but more recent studies suggest people suffering schizophrenia may simply self-medicate to prevent some of the side effects of anti-psychotics. While the modern anti-psychotics are a lot better (seroquel and such), typical anti-psychotics have disastrous and inevitable effects on the central nervous system after prolonged use.
Its cheaper though (+-8 euro versus 400 euro per month, so with 50 patients thats 400 versus 20.000 euro, or an annual saving of a quarter million for a rural facility), so where I did my internship they used it a lot to pacify the patients in the geriatric ward.
Its difficult to explain sometimes but sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. The reason I researched different strains in the past was because I was trying to ease the side effects of the legal stuff. Im actually doing the same thing right now only with the MS meds which can be fairly life altering...they told me I gotta lay off the gear fer 6 weeks otherwise I cant qualify fer a drug called tecfidera which is the only thing slowing things down.
And thats not to stray onto pain meds territory...ever seen a grown man wearing a nappy? And not in a fun way either. Pain so bad all ye can do is sit and bang yer head against a wall over and over to try and force yerself to not focus on the pain by creating more pain.
Side effects? All those side effects and a whole plethora more, all from legally prescribed drugs. In the beginning, its just a couple tablets a day, but then yer taking another tablet to deal with a side effect, then another to deal with the sickness of the other one and...it escalates so fast that one day yer eating 19 tablets with yer crunchy nut cornflakes, and thats just breakfast time.
Self medicating Im back down to a couple tablets a day, aint used or needed a walking stick in 6 months, have a decent quality of life and a whole lot less pain and anger issues. I can still walk the dogs every day fer an hour in the local hills, although Ill pay fer it in the evenings.
Not bad considering I was in a wheelchair 4 years ago on pain meds so strong, I had a little bib under my chin to catch the drool from the corners of my mouth. My daughter had to witness that...that hurt me to see it so I simply stopped taking what the doctors told me to take and apart from a few things which are manageble, things have worked out rather well I think.
So much fer professionals hmm?
verminstar
Banned
Ive bounced off those places a few times, she had a guy last year who used to do home visits and take her out fer a few hours, away from the home environment and me. Sounds disturbing when ye read that maybe by he was trained to deal especially with teenage autism and to this day, she still has the guy on her phone and facebook, but the home visits only last fer 8 weeks before they get moved onto a different case.
He was good, she really liked working and talking with him and because the organisation is the mental health part that we know as CAMHS, they work alongside the social services, so ye know whoever is qualified to take a teenage autistic girl out fer lunch, then the guy knows his stuff...let them do what they do and hope things improve a little. They did after that guy, he was cool.
Problems then arose with who came next at a time when the mental health services here were under the public spotlight as being inept. They used my daughter in a short film they made and handed her a script to read which she protested was a lie and went into major meltdown on the set. A set I didnt even know existed until I got the call telling me my daughter wasnt at the zoo, she was in a bloody studio and rocking back and forth in complete lockdown.
They lied to me basically...and her and she wouldnt accept it. Its hard fer me to admit I have almost zero faith in the system and as a result, I involve meself with the bare minimum...usually just enough to fulfil the legal requirement. Hard, because I genuinely appreciate the effort to help especially with the links...links like that are cool with me and I do know of them, but like I say, we have always passed each other by like ships in the night.
But I cant start trusting the system after all thats happened in the past, and thats just the latest in a long and colourful history of disasters, mistakes and other heinous and dastardly deeds. I know the world has changed but its like my brain didnt get the memo and I find it difficult dealing with those in authority...I dont blame those who work in the system, there are some real cool guys and a few bright sparks that make a few weeks better than other weeks. Theres also some very bad people working inside the system...which is why I sorta bounce off them.
That being said, Im actually getting a bit desperate now. Shes 15 and next year is her big year and she is so not ready...even at this stage, she will almost certainly have to repeat a year due to low attendance and a reduced timetable. Number of factors but its been a horrible past 12 months lets just say with a massive change in living arrangements as Im back to living alone just the two of us again.
I need help basically...I know I do but its hard fer me to accept it even when its there. She could do something nobody else in me family has ever done and actually go places and I dont wanna be the one that holds her back cos I cant deal with the past. Is what it is m8...cant change the past, nobody can. On the plus side, think how much money they save when Im not around much...bad joke I know but at least its a smily face.
Location wise, Dublin is in the south while Im in the north in Belfast. Two hours drive if yer sane, one if otherwise and its not rush hour but its literally another country here...even the road signs and markings are different. Cool side effect too that once ye cross the border, speeding fines more often than not dont follow ye into the north so ye put put the boot down. Well thats what I heard anyway, ye understand ^
Last edited:
I'm just an outside observer, but sorry to hear about your daughter's situation. Just my outside opinion for what it's worth, maybe just forget about the cannabis and maybe have your daughter focus working on the depression so she can do better and more consistent in school for the next term. Perhaps the pdocs can help her get anti-depressants instead, and are there herbal non-prescripts in the area. Vitamin B-12 could also help if there is a deficiency. In fact, it often helps mood pretty fast. Maybe she could get involved too in some sport or exercise like tennis cycling or swimming which can help calm the mind. Of course at 15, her whole life is still ahead of her. I live in the U.S. in a state where cannabis was made legal to an extent, but I'd never tried it in my life, so I don't even know the effects personally or what the hubbub is about it. Just that it smelled bad on passing it by. Best of luck for you and your daughter.
Last edited:
I'll start by saying that I'm an internet random and you've only got my word that I am who I say I am, treat it with scepticism and do your own research.
That is shocking behaviour and really concerning to me for 2 main reasons. Firstly they didn't consult you before taking placing your daughter, a minor, in a situation that caused her great distress ie. they didn't follow the law in consulting you and misled you about where she was. Secondly all professionals should act in the best interests of the person in their care and as you describe it they were acting in their own interests ahead of your daughter's, that can be viewed as abuse.
That should have been investigated and if you haven't already I'd strongly encourage you to make a complaint (within 12 months if you need to go to the Ombudsman is straighforward, outside and you'd have to justify why it's timed as it is, easy to do), but it could also be a child protection issue:
https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-protection-system/northern-ireland/
As I said, I'm an internet random but if it hasn't already been I'd really, really want to get that investigated to understand how it could happen and make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else.
That's our experience here as well and it makes me really sad and angry. 'Austerity' has had a huge, but invisible to the masses, impact on health and wellbeing for a lot of people in the UK, people who could once contribute to their community and lead meaningful and productive lives find their support removed because it doesn't fit the financially prudent (ie. cheaper) recovery model. Most of the support is only ever short term and has led to people leaving jobs, having a measurably a poorer quality of life and in some cases much worse.
Also, the decimating of the legal aid system has meant that most can't argue their case even if there are the occasional victories: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42862904
Really sorry to hear that.
Despite what I've said above I still think there are avenues you could follow but local knowledge is also important and I don't have that. For example, in England and Wales the Care Act 2014 places a responsibility on local government to assess and provide support to any individual who presents as having a need (not necessarily tax payer funded) but that doesn't apply in NI and I don't know what the equivalent is.
That's sort of where an advocacy service could come in, and just so you know if you do contact an advocacy service they 'should' be independent of both the NHS and local government, there for you and your daughter, not for them.
Of course
That is shocking behaviour and really concerning to me for 2 main reasons. Firstly they didn't consult you before taking placing your daughter, a minor, in a situation that caused her great distress ie. they didn't follow the law in consulting you and misled you about where she was. Secondly all professionals should act in the best interests of the person in their care and as you describe it they were acting in their own interests ahead of your daughter's, that can be viewed as abuse.
That should have been investigated and if you haven't already I'd strongly encourage you to make a complaint (within 12 months if you need to go to the Ombudsman is straighforward, outside and you'd have to justify why it's timed as it is, easy to do), but it could also be a child protection issue:
https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-protection-system/northern-ireland/
As I said, I'm an internet random but if it hasn't already been I'd really, really want to get that investigated to understand how it could happen and make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else.
That's our experience here as well and it makes me really sad and angry. 'Austerity' has had a huge, but invisible to the masses, impact on health and wellbeing for a lot of people in the UK, people who could once contribute to their community and lead meaningful and productive lives find their support removed because it doesn't fit the financially prudent (ie. cheaper) recovery model. Most of the support is only ever short term and has led to people leaving jobs, having a measurably a poorer quality of life and in some cases much worse.
Also, the decimating of the legal aid system has meant that most can't argue their case even if there are the occasional victories: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42862904
Really sorry to hear that.
Despite what I've said above I still think there are avenues you could follow but local knowledge is also important and I don't have that. For example, in England and Wales the Care Act 2014 places a responsibility on local government to assess and provide support to any individual who presents as having a need (not necessarily tax payer funded) but that doesn't apply in NI and I don't know what the equivalent is.
That's sort of where an advocacy service could come in, and just so you know if you do contact an advocacy service they 'should' be independent of both the NHS and local government, there for you and your daughter, not for them.
Of course
Last edited:
verminstar
Banned
I'll start by saying that I'm an internet random and you've only got my word that I am who I say I am, treat it with scepticism and do your own research.
That is shocking behaviour and really concerning to me for 2 main reasons. Firstly they didn't consult you before taking placing your daughter, a minor, in a situation that caused her great distress ie. they didn't follow the law in consulting you and misled you about where she was. Secondly all professionals should act in the best interests of the person in their care and as you describe it they were acting in their own interests ahead of your daughter's, that can be viewed as abuse.
That should have been investigated and if you haven't already I'd strongly encourage you to make a complaint (within 12 months if you need to go to the Ombudsman is straighforward, outside and you'd have to justify why it's timed as it is, easy to do), but it could also be a child protection issue:
https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/child-protection-system/northern-ireland/
As I said, I'm an internet random but if it hasn't already been I'd really, really want to get that investigated to understand how it could happen and make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else.
That's our experience here as well and it makes me really sad and angry. 'Austerity' has had a huge, but invisible to the masses, impact on health and wellbeing for a lot of people in the UK, people who could once contribute to their community and lead meaningful and productive lives find their support removed because it doesn't fit the financially prudent (ie. cheaper) recovery model. Most of the support is only ever short term and has led to people leaving jobs, having a measurably a poorer quality of life and in some cases much worse.
Also, the decimating of the legal aid system has meant that most can't argue their case even if there are the occasional victories: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42862904
Really sorry to hear that.
Despite what I've said above I still think there are avenues you could follow but local knowledge is also important and I don't have that. For example, in England and Wales the Care Act 2014 places a responsibility on local government to assess and provide support to any individual who presents as having a need (not necessarily tax payer funded) but that doesn't apply in NI and I don't know what the equivalent is.
That's sort of where an advocacy service could come in, and just so you know if you do contact an advocacy service they 'should' be independent of both the NHS and local government, there for you and your daughter, not for them.
Of course
And whats the point in reporting it? They always close ranks and back each other up...this aint the first time thats happened and Im not the only person its happened too...its sortof a standing joke here to be honest. Last year, the suits were given a decent sized budget to spend on mental health...they spent less than half of it and some of it was poured into other schemes that only benefit one side of the community and not the other...also some suits were driving top end mercedes by years end and some money was...misplaced.
Ye sound shocked by that...ye sound very naive if ye genuinely dont know whats really going on in the very service ye work fer. Corruption is absolutely rife here and its been this way fer a very long time...long before austerity which only made a bad situation worse. I can give ye doctors names that I can call if Im looking gear I cant get anywhere else...need a doctors note to get outta work fer 6 weeks? Hundred quid fer the note.
And thats just the tip of the iceberg. True fact but last year, our mental health authority was deemed the worst in europe...worse in some respects than those countries which were part of the soviet union and are now...halfway there. They were given a year to improve...things got worse inside 3 months and now the whole system is beginning to buckle and break. Go to a typical care home or respite centre...they got more managers than patients. The staff are usually minimum wage and dont speak much english and have questionable qualifications...all the managers are local, speak perfect english and dont have the first clue about mental health because its not a care home now, its a business.
I dont complain officially because I know what will happen if I do...life will get harder in general and some services I currently get will end very abruptly. The whole country complained last year and the whole system got worse as a result...coincidence? Lets not be coy about this and act like things like this dont and cant happen inside the UK...it does. We arent protected by the same laws that you guys are...a fact that the suits know how to use to their advantage all too well.
I have neither the time, energy or resources to begin some crusade against them...they mess me about and I mess them about and have very little regard fer the law as a result. If I lived a law abiding life, then life would be a lot harder by several magnitudes.
Im trying fer my daughters sake but this is my last and final attempt...I just dont have the energy to keep trying and repeatedly failing because its my daughter that suffers the most. If this attempts fail, Ill not complain...Ill just quietly walk away while pondering alternative options and as far as the system and the establishment is concerned, the two of us will simply not be there anymore. Those are her words...not mine because she does understand very well whats happening...and she is almost at the age where she can make those choices herself and neither the system or anyone else can do anything to stop us.
If theres an alternative thats legal and makes sense and is free cos we dont have much, then Im all ears. If I had the resources, Id emigrate to anywhere that would have me so long as it wasnt inside europe cos I wanna get as far away from this place as its possible to get. I dont much like where I live, but I despise the EU even more because its a system that will fail in time. I believe that absolutely 100% ^
So just to be clear as a Mental Health Advocate I don't work for services, NHS or local government. I'm independent and work to my clients wishes which often puts me at odds with services, hence why I was suggesting getting in touch with NHS Complaint and Mental Health Advocates near you as they should operate to the same principle.
Am I naive? Maybe actually and definitely ignorant of how poor your mental services are locally and the corruption. The situation you describe with your daughter wouldn't be tolerated in the area i work, and the organisation I work for would (and did) take a health trust to court if we came across something similar.
I'd hope, naively probably, that a complaint that's taken on to the Ombudsman would get a decent response. If nothing else try calling an advocacy service, (they'll be free,) and see if they can offer anything. NHS Complaints and Mental Health might be 2 different services.
My apologies if I've upset you or gone too far, I can understand the frustration of clashing with a system like that for so long. Maybe my area, despite all the flaws, is better than many.
verminstar
Banned
Nah its not you at all, apologies if it comes across that way...I upset meself more than anything. We had a long talk last night and she has told me she wants us both to stop...just stop trying entirely when this attempt fails. Its just not worth the stress and hassle and its making the situation so much worse that doing nothing now is preferable.
And so thats what will happen and this is my last shot at the legal route. I did know better and she understands that now...painfully so, but I wasnt doing this fer me. I gave up years ago and am doing much better fer it...she will too but it wont be the failed system that fixes it. I have to do something and if the system wont help...well I have to do something.
It is what it is...Im not gonna be spending any more mental energy on it cos its a futile effort that leaves me tired and deflated. If it means breaking the law, then so be it...Id kill fer my daughter, Id die fer her...breaking a few laws is peanuts to me because Ill do whatever it takes to help her and if others dont like it, then tough. I still blame the system fer forcing me to take desperate measures in the first place...if they did their job, this wouldnt be happening at all ^
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
As an actually trained clinical neuropsychologists (yeah, a real internet expert here!
I am obviously not advocating for or against anything, but I do feel it is important to keep in mind that the distinction between legal medication and illegal drugs is a cultural and legal one, not a medical or scientific one. Just my 2c.
I'm with you until the end.
There's also validation and consistency of product to bear in mind.
Plants, or even extracts aren't in the same league as pharmaceutical drugs in that respect.
There is no validation or consistency because it is illegal. If we made milk illegal milk too would be lacking in consistency, and future milk products would not be properly validated. It says nothing about the actual product, but everything about the legal status. And for what it is worth, not a single pharmaceutical powerhouse hasn't been found guilty of fraud with their 'scientific' studies. Most of them have been fined many times. As a final note: Paxil, one of the most common anti-depressants for children has as a known and acknowledged side effect..
wait for it...
Increased suicidal behavior
Last edited:
By 'testing' the system, the officials; be they the medical profession, or the old bill; you are risking loosing her to an institution. They will take her away and you and I know; that will make things/her life, 10 times worse.
Agreed 100%: The medical profession/NHS is slow, over stretched and to them, she is just another number, or unknown quantity. YOU NEED YOUR/her GP ON SIDE, this is the biggest and best asset you can have with the NHS. Someone that knows her. Even if that means she sees that GP, for no particular reason; every week.
As to the self medication part? I don't have a clue, what works etc with her condition. If you are talking CBT, or something related. Well CBT can be legally brought in vape form, in the UK now. One assumes you are in the U.K. and so it must be available, in a form she can take. Again; your/her G.P. can help you here and if they are anti. Ask for another G.P. to treat her. Lastly: if you know for a fact, that 'your own meds' can help her, after taking advice, why not use it? But get the facts and keep it to yourself.
Use the local web and find local voluntary support. You need it. She needs it. There must be groups, locally and don't even hesitate, for any reason. Be it ego, politics or whatever; do the research and talk to them. They can and will make a hell of a difference.
We know that you are a big man, a hard man and can and will take on anyone, or anything, but as far as this is concerned. You have to be the better man and if that means, biting your lip, or going cap in hand. So be it. Your pride, your ego, your feelings and even you; are not important. She is.
verminstar
Banned
I hear ye and I agree, its not my feelings that count. I never claimed to be perfect and ye I do have issues keeping my own feelings out of the equation. She says Im a brilliant dad but a terrible role model. Cant argue with that and secretly I smile cos I dont want her being like me, so I smile cos she considers what I do to be wrong...which means that despite my worst efforts, she does know right from wrong and shes turning out better than me. I aint done much right in me life but I aint messed her up yet and dont intend to start.
M8 Im really not a hard man or some tough hombre or whatever...I can fight me own corner but I dont go out looking to start something, thats not what I do even if it comes across like it. I got enough friends that I just dont need to not including my family with whom I am somewhat...estranged is a good word. I never ever joined any paramilitary groups although many of my friends did...but Im just not that sorta guy and I avoid being in debt to them. But some my real life friends are long standing members...its difficult to explain how it works to outsiders, it just works but Im just not ¨that¨ sorta hard man. Do I give that impression? Its not intentional.
We are involved in an archery club which is run specifically fer disabled and those with autism...she likes to use the crossbow so I insisted she learn how to use it properly and shes taken to it like a duck to water. She tried the tai chi with me once but she just cant handle the triggers if anyone so much as touches her...those are her triggers which we need to try and overcome, but its gonna be something she struggles with fer the rest of her life. Its not about overcoming it, thats the wrong word, its about learning how to self manage...doctors make it worse by trying to cure it...but it cant be cured only controlled so they make it worse in the long run.
I had fer many years refused to have her on the meds because I know from experience what they will do to her...actual legal meds are just as addictive as other drugs which arent legal, and I know exactly the sorta damage they can do. But...some things work while others make things worse...a lot worse actually...but her issues are different and Im running outta ideas and Im getting more and more desperate cos fer all my resources, I just cannot fix this on me own.
Ive been investigated by social services before because of the way I am...intentionally provoking them to get her name bumped up the list was not an impulse remark, I knew exactly what I was doing when I did it. But after that happed, the school vice principle got in contact with the GP and chewed her ears off down the phone, so I now have a strong voice on the case. Its one the best grammar schools in the country so when the vice principle wades in, ye sit up and pay attention. So Im happier than I was and now all anyone can do is see what happens next...their move next and I wont dispute or argue about whatever they decide. Thats the best I can do fer now...roll the dice one more time ^
Hey bud, you might ask yourself... If you don’t teach her to self medicate, but say you might, is that a crime or more importantly something the social services would act upon before your daughter reaps any benefit.
Just to clarify this.
Paxil is NOT used in under-18 patients, because the makers got caught deliberately falsifying the data. They deliberately encouraged its use in the most vulnerable age group, where suicides were increased, while claiming that they were decreased, in Trumpian fashion -for $$$.
They were fined a huge sum: 3 billion, IIRC.
Glaxo Smith Kline Beecham were the villains. I had the pleasure of physically ejecting their representative from the precincts of my office, and have never prescribed any of their products since.
As much as I'd like V's kid to get treated, I remain quite skeptical that the meds would be useful in any meaningful way. And I'm saying that as a doctor, with a daughter in the same state.
Last edited:
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
Milk suffers the same problem right now, because like produce(ie marijuana) it's subject to many variables.
That is an entirely different thing than a drug made in a lab.
That has nothing to do with the legality or legality.
Milk doesn't even need to be as consistent in the first place; it's a food not a drug.
I don't see how some people misusing evidence is somehow an argument against it.
So what?
It's still the best tool we have.
What's up with the scare quotes?
The baloney surrounding cannabis lately is in another league altogether.
Getting back to the implications in this thread, marijuana has shown some pretty strong associations with psychosis.
Not something to be taken lightly with children I suggest.
- Status