Hardware & Technical PSA: HDMI audio is amazing

OK, got it, you have one wire with a single plug per speaker not separate + and - plugs.

Yeah, one wire per speaker, one black, one red. I got ya now, if you switch +/- within one wire that might impact audio quality I guess? But switching red/black between speakers is definitely same quality just left/right switch

you can set for the highest playback sample rate in windows.

That impacts only spdif and only in windows, ED will ignore whatever audio setting you set for 'default' in audio device settings (as I'm assuming you mean that)
 
Yes, apparently people can switch +/- of one cable, or so it seems from what babelfisch describes, still trying to wrap my head around it

Edit: don't get me wrong, DIY is cool and all, but if you are DIYing your own cables then accidental switch between + and minus is not really an option or you're 'doing it wrong yourself'

That's not about DIY but has been the standard connection for speakers (both professional and home equipment) for MANY years until XLR arrived. Just because you have never seen it doesn't make it DIY...

PS
Here is a list of speaker connectors you probably never heard of.
https://www.ramelectronics.net/Speaker-Cable-Connectors-Explained.aspx
Not everyone uses cinch (the picture you linked above).
 
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That's not about DIY but has been the standard connection for speakers (both professional and home equipment) for MANY years until XLR arrived. Just because you have never seen it doesn't make it DIY...

XLR:
Originally manufactured as the Cannon X series, by 1950 a locking mechanism was added (Cannon XL)[2] and by 1955[2] a version surrounding the female contacts with a synthetic rubber polychloroprene insulation using the part number prefix XLR.[3][4] There was also an XLP series which used a hard plastic insulation, but was otherwise the same.[2] ITT Cannon originally manufactured XLR connectors in two locations Kanagawa, Japan and Melbourne, Australia. The Australian operation was sold to Alcatel Components in 1992 and then acquired by Amphenol in 1998. ITT Cannon continues to manufacture XLR connectors in Japan.

Chinch (RCA):
The name RCA derives from the Radio Corporation of America, which introduced the design by the early 1940s for internal connection of the pickup to the chassis in home radio-phonograph consoles. It was originally a low-cost, simple design, intended only for mating and disconnection when servicing the console. Refinement came with later designs, although they remained compatible.

RCA connectors began to replace the older quarter-inch phone connectors for many other applications in the consumer audio world when component high-fidelity systems started becoming popular in the 1950s. However, quarter-inch phone connectors are still common in professional audio, while miniature phone connectors (3.5 mm) predominated in personal stereo systems.

I'm quite old and have not used XLR in my life, RCA however has been a standard even in communist countries I come from (but to be fully truthful, yes, I do remember having to plug 1.5 metre sized speakers with separate + and - cables, so you're right, there exist speakers that have separate input for each 1/4th of a stereo cable, I am still to see any PC speakers that have this setup though, and if HDMI vs SPDIF differs on them will be surprised as they just forward differences in voltage)
 
Running PCM 5.1 over HDMI through a NAD T758, Focal Chorus (726 + 706 + 700) and REL T9 sub.

I can definitely recommend going down the PCM 5.1 route if you can afford it.
 
Running PCM 5.1 over HDMI through a NAD T758, Focal Chorus (726 + 706 + 700) and REL T9 sub.

I can definitely recommend going down the PCM 5.1 route if you can afford it.

I understand some of these acronyms! Could you share your view if hdmi onto normal speakers without any 5.1/7.1 will result in better sound output for ED, or should be same as SPDIF?
 
I understand some of these acronyms! Could you share your view if hdmi onto normal speakers without any 5.1/7.1 will result in better sound output for ED, or should be same as SPDIF?

Stereo PCM will be identical regardless of S/PDIF or HDMI. HDMI just has greater bandwidth, meaning more PCM (ie uncompressed) channels.
 
XLR:
Originally manufactured as the Cannon X series, by 1950 a locking mechanism was added (Cannon XL)[2] and by 1955[2] a version surrounding the female contacts with a synthetic rubber polychloroprene insulation using the part number prefix XLR.[3][4] There was also an XLP series which used a hard plastic insulation, but was otherwise the same.[2] ITT Cannon originally manufactured XLR connectors in two locations Kanagawa, Japan and Melbourne, Australia. The Australian operation was sold to Alcatel Components in 1992 and then acquired by Amphenol in 1998. ITT Cannon continues to manufacture XLR connectors in Japan.

Chinch (RCA):
The name RCA derives from the Radio Corporation of America, which introduced the design by the early 1940s for internal connection of the pickup to the chassis in home radio-phonograph consoles. It was originally a low-cost, simple design, intended only for mating and disconnection when servicing the console. Refinement came with later designs, although they remained compatible.

RCA connectors began to replace the older quarter-inch phone connectors for many other applications in the consumer audio world when component high-fidelity systems started becoming popular in the 1950s. However, quarter-inch phone connectors are still common in professional audio, while miniature phone connectors (3.5 mm) predominated in personal stereo systems.

I'm quite old and have not used XLR in my life, RCA however has been a standard even in communist countries I come from (but to be fully truthful, yes, I do remember having to plug 1.5 metre sized speakers with separate + and - cables, so you're right, there exist speakers that have separate input for each 1/4th of a stereo cable, I am still to see any PC speakers that have this setup though, and if HDMI vs SPDIF differs on them will be surprised as they just forward differences in voltage)

We weren't talking about PC speakers specifically. But I am glad that you finally realised that there are other connectors than cinch and that you understand that it's indeed possible to connect them the wrong way.
 
Stereo PCM will be identical regardless of S/PDIF or HDMI. HDMI just has greater bandwidth, meaning more PCM (ie uncompressed) channels.

S/PDIF sadly isn't supported by the ED client, since it outputs 5.1 uncompressed in PCM format which doesn't provide surround through optical natively. 5.1 via HDMI inputs will work, though.

This is from ED person, so is surround the only thing lacking?
 
XLR:
Originally manufactured as the Cannon X series, by 1950 a locking mechanism was added (Cannon XL)[2] and by 1955[2] a version surrounding the female contacts with a synthetic rubber polychloroprene insulation using the part number prefix XLR.[3][4] There was also an XLP series which used a hard plastic insulation, but was otherwise the same.[2] ITT Cannon originally manufactured XLR connectors in two locations Kanagawa, Japan and Melbourne, Australia. The Australian operation was sold to Alcatel Components in 1992 and then acquired by Amphenol in 1998. ITT Cannon continues to manufacture XLR connectors in Japan.

Chinch (RCA):
The name RCA derives from the Radio Corporation of America, which introduced the design by the early 1940s for internal connection of the pickup to the chassis in home radio-phonograph consoles. It was originally a low-cost, simple design, intended only for mating and disconnection when servicing the console. Refinement came with later designs, although they remained compatible.

RCA connectors began to replace the older quarter-inch phone connectors for many other applications in the consumer audio world when component high-fidelity systems started becoming popular in the 1950s. However, quarter-inch phone connectors are still common in professional audio, while miniature phone connectors (3.5 mm) predominated in personal stereo systems.

I'm quite old and have not used XLR in my life, RCA however has been a standard even in communist countries I come from (but to be fully truthful, yes, I do remember having to plug 1.5 metre sized speakers with separate + and - cables, so you're right, there exist speakers that have separate input for each 1/4th of a stereo cable, I am still to see any PC speakers that have this setup though, and if HDMI vs SPDIF differs on them will be surprised as they just forward differences in voltage)

We ran into this issue on speaker wiring because I was describing the effect of running one speaker in anti-phase to the other, and the difference in sound quality it makes compared to when it is wired correctly. For this I apologise :rolleyes:

Back to the topic, a reduction in phase information passed to the speakers from the amplifier (or computer ... or sound card, etc.) will have a derogatory effect on sound quality. So it is quite possible that HDMI is correctly passing all the necessary sound information, such as level, frequency, timing and phase, whereas the alternative SPDIF is not. But I am only guessing about this. However, it would help to explain the difference in perceived sound quality.
 
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We weren't talking about PC speakers specifically. But I am glad that you finally realised that there are other connectors than cinch and that you understand that it's indeed possible to connect them the wrong way.

Yeah, if you are using 1950s tech in your house and connect them with individual wires you're good to go, still would suggest getting in with the times and trying to see what the hdmi output gives vs the old ones, let us know if you feel the difference
 
We ran into this issue on speaker wiring because I was describing the effect of running one speaker in anti-phase to the other, and the difference in sound quality it makes compared to when it is wired correctly. For this I apologise :rolleyes:

Back to the topic, a reduction in phase information passed to the speakers from the amplifier (or computer ... or sound card, etc.) will have a derogatory effect on sound quality. So it is quite possible that HDMI is correctly passing all the necessary sound information, such as level, frequency, timing and phase, whereas the alternative SPDIF is not. But I am only guessing about this. It would explain the difference in perceived sound quality.

Pretty sure one thing they already agreed/admitted to: lack of surround on PCM/spdif explains that there is and will be difference when comparing SPDIF and HDMI, question now is where the rest comes from as it is not just dolby on/off
 
Pretty sure one thing they already agreed/admitted to: lack of surround on PCM/spdif explains that there is and will be difference when comparing SPDIF and HDMI, question now is where the rest comes from as it is not just dolby on/off

Ahh ok, surround effects are handled by differences in phase, so that makes sense. Thankyou.
 
Yeah, if you are using 1950s tech in your house and connect them with individual wires you're good to go, still would suggest getting in with the times and trying to see what the hdmi output gives vs the old ones, let us know if you feel the difference

You completely missed the point of the entire discussion (one that you started because you didn't understand what someone else was talking about).
 
S/PDIF sadly isn't supported by the ED client, since it outputs 5.1 uncompressed in PCM format which doesn't provide surround through optical natively. 5.1 via HDMI inputs will work, though.

This is from ED person, so is surround the only thing lacking?

Multi-channel over S/PDIF (in games) requires real-time compression using something like Dolby Digital. It's far more efficient and better sounding to skip this and use HDMI where no real-time compression is required.
 
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Multi-channel over S/PDIF (in games) requires real-time compression using something like Dolby Digital. It's far more efficient and better sounding to skip this and use HDMI where no real-time compression is required.

Interesting, wonder if that is why so little on this topic can be found (I mean except the quote I put above there is literally no comment from FD about the audio differences, so maybe that is it)
 
Yeah, I've use optical and HDMI audio to my display and surround sound speakers' receiver since I got the game in early 2015. I also increase the sample quality for the outputs in Windows.
 
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Interesting, wonder if that is why so little on this topic can be found (I mean except the quote I put above there is literally no comment from FD about the audio differences, so maybe that is it)

Well, it's really a function of the sound card you are using IF you are using S/PDIF and not ED's responsibility to convert your audio into the format you desire.

I don't use a sound card and dump the multi-channel 5.1 PCM audio through the video card.
 
You completely missed the point of the entire discussion (one that you started because you didn't understand what someone else was talking about).

Sorry dude, you can start your own discussion on how to connect things from 50s and if they impact sound quality, this is about tech from 90s/00s, yes you are technically right people might still be using one wire per + and - to connect their retro speakers, but that is not what the discussion is about, so yeah, we're looking for people to share their experiences using normal (as in these days used) connections and noticing a huge disparity between spdif and hdmi

Yeah, I've been using HDMI audio to my surround sound system since I got the game back in early 2015. :)

Can you connect your speakers just for a test to spdif and confirm that it sounds like crap?
 
I found this comment on https://www.cnet.com/news/hdmi-vs-optical-which-digital-audio-connection-to-use/

Both HDMI and optical pass digital audio from one device to another. Both are better than analog (the red and white cables). Both can pass multi-channel audio, like Dolby Digital. Both cables can be had pretty cheap.
The biggest difference is that HDMI can pass higher-resolution audio, including the formats found on Blu-ray: Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio. These formats can't get transmitted across optical.
 
I found this comment on https://www.cnet.com/news/hdmi-vs-optical-which-digital-audio-connection-to-use/

Both HDMI and optical pass digital audio from one device to another. Both are better than analog (the red and white cables). Both can pass multi-channel audio, like Dolby Digital. Both cables can be had pretty cheap.
The biggest difference is that HDMI can pass higher-resolution audio, including the formats found on Blu-ray: Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master Audio. These formats can't get transmitted across optical.

Yeah, ED is definitely using something to get 5.1/7.1 through hdmi which it doesn't get on spdif, just there is little if no information about what exactly
 
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