[O.A. VIDEO] Does Elite Dangerous Have a Content Problem?

[CMDR Robb Macruz]

Actually I am with you and I think like you.

But still, it is not easy to come up with a good idea of new content in the game. Just saying "others will do" is not content at all. It stays speculative.

What I say is, we, the community (I know, not all), don't present good ideas of new content. Thats not true in this strictness, but it is true in a general sense. We complain about lack of content, but there is not much content proposals here. Not much means very little.

Yes, I can easily produce ideas of new content, but I can not easily produce ideas of content which are realistic and possible to implement in a reasonable way of costs and effort and still bring good "content" into the game. And there is more: "content" is a very general word. Try to define what is ment by "content". I fail.

I kindly disagree with you, take New Vegas for example, many people thought "there's just so much you can do with this game in terms on content from mods" and guess what? people have made the game something Bethesda/Obsidian could only dream of

 

[Xenith]

Elite isn't an MMO, though, nor is it a PvP combat sim, nor anything else some people want it to be. It's a simple free-roam exploration game with some added multiplayer functionality and living galaxy simulated server-side to save resources.

This.

It's basically a re-make of their earlier games, but with multiplayer added to pay lip service to the current trend. Flying around with your friends is cool, and I'm certainly glad you can do it, but the multiplayer is optional at best.

 

[CMDR Robb Macruz]

Here's some content suggestions that I think people unfamiliar with the game expect when shopping for a space game they plan on enjoying and also I think experienced players could appreciate:
-the ability to interact with the ship beyond surfing menu gui's (wrenches, micro adjustments like hardpoints convergence, sliders that allow you to tweak lateral thrust at the cost of top speed)
-Npc interactions besides shoot or ignore
-Npc crew that bring benefit and you can actually see
-ship modules you can actually see and repair manually if you lack an AFMU
-exploration missions (faction ABC wants you to scan 12 earth likes in the formidine)
-multi part, long complex missions with high payouts instead of hundreds of simple easy short ones with mediocre payout
-planets with more than random pinata boulders that you shoot
- a compelling reason to care about the thargoids and guardians
-conflict zones or combat scenarios with structures and objectives ( honestly the featureless never ending CZ is a totally garbage mechanic. What are you fighting over? Which side can spawn more ships before the BGS changes its mind again?)
-lots more. If a dev wants they can PM me but I'm sure they wont.

you nailed it my friend, hell one of the mechanics I always liked to see on a space game is an on the go EVA repair of the ship for example

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Plenty of content, just needs to be properly fleshed out, properly connected together.....& we need multiple ways to interact with it.

For example, giving us the ability to call for help from NPC's, either for ourselves or for other NPC's in distress; the ability to demand cargo from traders (backed by net Notoriety level); or the ability to bribe System security not to scan you (with the success chance being based on your Reputation in that system).

Also, give us tools to hack data points in ways that don't trigger a trespass alert.....though not risk free.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

problem is time, when you need more than 20 hours to unlock just one thing that's not even top of the line in game item there's a problem, yeah you might have the spare time to get those 20 hours in the spawn of 3 days, some people have something called real life and those 20 hours can transform into a month, guess why people as you say want "things right now"? because Elite shouldn't be a second full time job

the game pretty much boils down to: You want to do combat? you gotta grind for credits and rebuys for a ship, then you have to grind to unlock engineers, guess what now you need to grind more to mod each module, you just grind for each module? guess what? you can't just mod at leisure, you need to grind the particular engineer to unlock another engineer which needs you to grind more to unlock the one you want, now you grinded guess what? you need a bigger ship because you grinded your combat rank and now you have to fight bigger better ships, now go grind missions for credits, oh I forgot, now grind rank for the ship you want, you just grinded rank and credits? your modules are worthless, go grind engineers once more also don't forget to grind for the module that costs as much as your ship plus the rebuy.

Yeah sure you can do combat on a Sidewinder, but as a comment on the video put it you can also mow your lawn with a pair of nose clippers, it doesn't mean it's efficient to do so

Do you really need 20 hours to get non top of the line stuff, though? If anything, I still feel its too easy to get most of the stuff in the game.

 

[yminale]

Do you really need 20 hours to get non top of the line stuff, though? If anything, I still feel its too easy to get most of the stuff in the game.

It takes about that long to reach Duke or Rear Admiral.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

It takes about that long to reach Duke or Rear Admiral.

but that *is* top of the line.

 

[yminale]

I think people need to take a deep breadth and come to realize that what you see is what you get. The gameplay isn't going to get better and pushing Fdev will only make things worse. The technology just isn't there for emergent gameplay and if it was, Fdev lacks the talent and skill to use it. Fdev is and will be a second tier developer. For player controlled content, well that probably needs a client/server model and not the barely working peer to peer model we have now. I suspect that all the updates are really prototyping for ED:2. If you don't like what you have now, then you should really just quit since it's doubtful that it will get better.

but that *is* top of the line.

Not really. getting a cutter/corvette is the easy part. You still have to engineer it.

 

[lokvette]

There is plenty of content. The issues are with it is that it feels pointless. The game has most things needed for a good game, it's giving a purpose to those things which isn't just credit gain.

This sums it up for me.

You know that saying inch deep a mile wide, add someone scateing on top of that and not being able to interact in any meaningful way thats how it is for me. I enjoy trying to move factions with the BGS, but then it still feels utterly pointless as the people your doing it for just see you as the same person they have just met even though you have been working for them for the last few motnhs,.

I know we are ment to be part of the Pilots federation or whatever the lore is, but imagine what the game would be like if flying for the Empire ment I was flying for the Empire. So many missed goals and a few of thier own is how I see ED now.

Im looking forward to what the feed back section EL posted a few days back has to offer, but with no expetations or feeling off all this is going to be good. I hope whats coming will stir my ED mojo into action but as it is its becoming harder to move my mouse over that shortcut on my desktop.

I think it hit home the other day when I read in one thread about a system where the Thargoids had hit (yeah the station when into burn mode when the server was down) and the US-- (sorry I dont even know what they are called when you have Thargoids in them) where all over the place thus Tharogids where still in the system all be it in their own instance and the chat in local was still telling everyone about how this crusie liner was still in the top 1% or what ever spam it spouts I turned off local a long time ago.

For me to feel contected to the back story or content in terms of how I see content or define it, I need to be able to see it interacting with me.

 

[DMaster]

Elite isn't an MMO, though, nor is it a PvP combat sim, nor anything else some people want it to be. It's a simple free-roam exploration game with some added multiplayer functionality and living galaxy simulated server-side to save resources.

This is what people often say, but in fact, most parts ingame are more developed, than the exploration part!

 

[Muetdhiver]

There is plenty of content. The issues are with it is that it feels pointless. The game has most things needed for a good game, it's giving a purpose to those things which isn't just credit gain.

This pretty sums it up.

Case in point : Lost Megaships. As they stand they are nice story tidbits that one can find mostly by dump luck. That's it.

They could have been the focus of really neat exploration missions, with clues leading to the lost Megaship. Sprinkle in really basic storytelling twists such
as : it contains precious AI relics and is being looted, it's already been discovered and is used a booby trapped smuggler cache, it's been repurposed as a pirate base,
it's been repurposed as an prospector basecamp and contains information about rich painite/cold diamond deposits.

What I'm saying is that FDev has a lot of content and backdrops available. Geysers, mysterious plants & organism on planets, Drydocks, Megaships, Crashed ships, Ship graveyards, etc... etc...
But it's hidden away, and hard to find or even know about some of those. Look at geysers : the only way to find them reliably is via tourism missions. How dumb is that ? Use them for other stuff,
I don't know, like an SRV race field to get to the MacGuffin before the NPC's. Oh... those don't drive lol :/

Use these places to build "ok" stories with persistant NPC's (heck you could even rip-off the Nemesis system). Tie the existing disconnected content to lots of different game loops and story hooks,
and the game will become much more alive. Also, it's easy win : the stuff is already here, just go from "bunch of disconnected blots" to "Spiderweb !".

 

[kilvenny]

Elite at its heart is a single player game. Now in a multi-player guise it needs to adopt the things that make a multiplayer game thrive. As an evolving game it also needs elements that keep giving players a reason to play. The content that needs to go on is the sort that engages the player long term.

Becoming Elite or triple Elite is no longer an end game scenario - once you reach that there is no longer a goal. - Solution - introduce player rankings. Give players an on going goal.

Multiplayer engagement - Bring in content that allows players to group together, offer command and control functionality and allow player groups to take control of stations/systems in the galaxy. Provide a means to create player group HQ and and command and control hubs. Provide a ranking system for player groups. The basis of this sort of thing exists, it just doesn't create a cohesive whole.

ED can learn from other games. What does Eve have that made players play and pay a monthly subscription for years. What was the piece of game play of combination of pieces that drew players in.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

There is plenty of content. The issues are with it is that it feels pointless. The game has most things needed for a good game, it's giving a purpose to those things which isn't just credit gain.

Pretty much. We need more direct feedback-visual & audio-from the game, as to what impact the actions have had on the Faction, Power or Super-Power you're working for. We need much more feedback on how various factions feel about us, & there needs to be more trade offs in regards to relations with various Factions (getting Friendly with one should carry a better than average chance of becoming unfriendly with another). There also needs to be a favour system that you can use to get you stuff that Credits can't buy.

 

[iFred]

There´s a big list of stuff to do in this game. Hundreds of possibilities. But all share the same Question: What for?

2 Major Things that are causing the Problems:

1st: A single commander is worthless
2nd: The Major Things happen behind the Scenes (aka "controlled by frontier")

Thats what is keeping me away from playing.

 

[lenna]

Very nice video. My answer is that YES. Yes it does have a content problem. As a personal note, i think the biggest issue here is that, it seems that they dont know how to create proper content. Game is clearly turning towards pure grind, if someone sees the latest guardian grind. And it is only gonna get worse..

I think that OA have made some valid points but I disagree that the game is turning towards grind...

I agree with the view that the guardian unlocks perhaps require too many trips to the guardian structures that have them BUT there are quite a large number of guardian sites to visit. Sure, you can limit yourself to one region or a couple of sites and grind for the required blueprints as OA suggests but I am not convinced that "grinding the same subset of sites" was FD's expectation. Ram Tah's guardian obelisk data mission (implementation of the obelisk scanning mechanics aside) is evidence enough of that IMO.

I also disagree with OA's apparent simplification of "Content Consumer" and "Content Contributor" camps - while some will favour one type of gameplay over the other there are people like myself that do not consider the distinction relevant nor the division appropriate in the context of ED.

WRT ED potentially having a content problem, I vehemently disagree with those that think it does. Sure there are things that can be improved, that is always going to be the case. However, as an LEP owner I do recognise that many of the improvements some are looking for are going to be of sufficient complexity to warrant being classified as "Premium Content" type improvements. Further more, such content is unlikely to be delivered in a timescale that the content complainers are likely to be happy with.

 

[Soon(TM)]

If this happens you know the most popular mod will be to make your CMDR naked, right?

Now that's what I call content

 

[Fosdyke]

Pretty much. We need more direct feedback-visual & audio-from the game, as to what impact the actions have had on the Faction, Power or Super-Power you're working for. We need much more feedback on how various factions feel about us, & there needs to be more trade offs in regards to relations with various Factions (getting Friendly with one should carry a better than average chance of becoming unfriendly with another). There also needs to be a favour system that you can use to get you stuff that Credits can't buy.

Yes, we need more involvement with the faction we work with. Actually there is no special bond with those ones.

 

[lenna]

Pretty much. We need more direct feedback-visual & audio-from the game, as to what impact the actions have had on the Faction, Power or Super-Power you're working for. We need much more feedback on how various factions feel about us, & there needs to be more trade offs in regards to relations with various Factions (getting Friendly with one should carry a better than average chance of becoming unfriendly with another). There also needs to be a favour system that you can use to get you stuff that Credits can't buy.

There is already a favour system of sorts with the revised mission reward system.

As for feedback, we have indicators in the game with permit unlocks for some factions and subtle changes to who greets you and the nature of the language they use on the mission/passenger boards - as well as messages delivered on rep changes and mission completion. Further more, where the BGS is concerned you can also monitor the in-system faction states/progress via the right hand MFD in the cockpit interface. It is already at a reasonable level though some INARA type graphs for faction influence and personal reputation would not go amiss.

Trade offs do occur, if you work for one faction against another faction's interests. I personally disagree with the principle that helping one faction should mean you can not also help another at a baseline BGS level. Where Power Play is concerned, if you are affiliated with one Power then you are against the others at a Power Play Level. If you retire from Power Play, then only the residual BGS consequences should persist - and I believe this is currently the case.

I can see how some may be frustrated by the lack of pace of effect where the trade-offs are concerned based on my own experience but personally I feel the balance is about right where BGS reputation pace of change is concerned.

I do get the distinct feeling that some are looking for a more RPG B&W gameplay feel, and to my mind that is not what ED is (or should ever be) about.

 

[lenna]

Yes, we need more involvement with the faction we work with. Actually there is no special bond with those ones.

I don't know about you but I do not just work with one faction... and quite deliberately so too.

As for player faction focused gameplay, I believe FD should keep such things largely as-is. I am not against some improvements in that area, but if people are expecting EvE type gameplay then I think they are expecting the wrong things from the wrong game.

The forth coming squadron mechanics may help scratch your particular itch but I would keep your expectations in-check otherwise you will most likely be disappointed.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Some things that might help, as I have suggested elsewhere.

A system in a state of war should look, sound & feel like a system at war, immediately. Same with Outbreak, or Famine, or Civil Unrest. System state should be immediately obvious-& meaningful-to the visitor.

Along with all other Faction Info, there should be a section for which Factions are currently enemies of the Faction you are looking at. An increased Rep with one faction should lead to a corresponding Rep decline with that faction's enemy/enemies.

We need more nuanced mission text based on the current or pending faction state, the type of faction employing you & the rank of the mission. This text should then be an indicator of what kind of complications you will face & what kind of chain missions might appear. It should also lead to a more situation specific "end-mission" text.

More close interrelationships between Super-powers, Powers, Factions & Engineers.

Longer lasting, but more meaningful, Bounties & Notoriety.

More ways to interact with the galaxy.

Those are key ones for me.