People are starting to stretch in their defence of the flaws

[JohnMiller1132]

As far as the AI is concerned I think people are expecting way too much. They have unrealistic expectations and this is their fault and not frontiers. They should keep in mind that this is a game. Trying to add all that AI and every little variable would probably be a huge task. This is a game and not a Dinosaur documentary. A game based on books and movies that were science fiction. In the video with the Spino you could clearly see the Hadrosaur was running. I am sure the AI will be fine in the launch game.

PCRM4Life, With all due respect, I don't know if you're thinking of me while talking about AI hype.

If you are, please allow me to explain a little here. Way back in March, my first post was about Dino behavior and AI. I think I had been way too abstract at first as I misled people to think that I'm talking about Next-Gen-Sci-Fi AI or "The Jurassic Sims". What I really mean is - to have a decent, engaging AI that feel like the movies in such that it challenges park management gameplay and security concern. To me, investing on Dino AI worth every penny spent as it is one of the better ways to improve replayability value.

For details, please refer back to my much earlier post here.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ns?highlight=more+realistic+dinosaur+behavior

As for the Spino chasing-takedown animation ,as said, I think it's important to learn more about what happened split-second before the cinematic animation kicks in to make a conclusion. I have reason to (*edited) worry that the chasing sequences has already been bundled together with the Cinematic Killing Animation.

 

[DinoTamer]

Constructive criticism should always be welcome.

Of course, but you can not deny that complaining about details as specific as the accuracy of the animations is redundant, especially in a game with console version. Keeping in mind that you can not modify every tiny detail of every animation of every animal, it is not more sensible to suggest possible ideas within the mechanics already established (such as the issue dealt with in another thread about the invulnerability of park workers) instead of complaining all the time that the game is not perfect ?Constructive criticism it's something perfect, I agree, but if it is to provide ideas, not to complain to developers about something that a person has taken for granted due to personal hype.

 

[Baryonyx]

Of course, but you can not deny that complaining about details as specific as the accuracy of the animations is redundant, especially in a game with console version. Keeping in mind that you can not modify every tiny detail of every animation of every animal, it is not more sensible to suggest possible ideas within the mechanics already established (such as the issue dealt with in another thread about the invulnerability of park workers) instead of complaining all the time that the game is not perfect ?Constructive criticism it's something perfect, I agree, but if it is to provide ideas, not to complain to developers about something that a person has taken for granted due to personal hype.

I don't think it'd too much to ask that the herbivores actually run from carnivores instead of standing there.

Or walk in groups rather than stand in threes having a chat.

Stuff like that doesn't really seem like it needs much individual programming. It's just a generic, sweeping behavior.

 

[DinoTamer]

I don't think it'd too much to ask that the herbivores actually run from carnivores instead of standing there.

Or walk in groups rather than stand in threes having a chat.

Stuff like that doesn't really seem like it needs much individual programming. It's just a generic, sweeping behavior.

Yes, I understand your point of view and in a way I give you the reason, but I'm almost sure (and I think that you too) that from Frontier are aware of it.

That is why I do not agree to say that we see only good things without taking into account the defects, and that because the game is not perfect we are in a case like No Man's Sky (as you mentioned before). That game was denounced as a scam, and I do not think this is the same case

 

[Lora Craft69]

To the OP: I am not even going to dignify that with a response!

 

[Lora Craft69]

This. If you don't like what you've seen about the game then just don't buy it. Play something else. Problem solved.

I 100% agree with that.

 

[Baryonyx]

Yes, I understand your point of view and in a way I give you the reason, but I'm almost sure (and I think that you too) that from Frontier are aware of it.

That is why I do not agree to say that we see only good things without taking into account the defects, and that because the game is not perfect we are in a case like No Man's Sky (as you mentioned before). That game was denounced as a scam, and I do not think this is the same case

I've mentioned Frontier haven't misled people the way NMS did. They haven't promised things that haven't appeared.

I'm comparing the way NMS was mediocre until 6 months later. I get the feeling that will be the case here.

 

[Andrew2018]

I specifically remember the OP adamantly saying this game will have only 28 dinosaurs at release and was attacking everyone that disagreed with him. The game looks great. We have seen the AI change with lespscand bounds. We know that Frontier listens to the fanbase. Heck there is even a noticable difference in the types of AI in the game compared to what we saw in March. We all know you will never be happy no matter what frontier does as you have never once had a positive thing to say.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

What's actually happened is you've just fallen victim to frontiers honestly out of touch marketing department,

Frontier engaged us last month, but have unsportingly dropped it and gone cold, while you're expecting some level of competency in "hype building" that we expect as standard. It simply hasn't happened.

Frontier on one hand check all the modern boxes, they're running games as services and their games have large, thriving communities, far better than other games. Yet their marketing acts like frontier is a naughty dog or squaresoft.

Don't get me wrong i'm really glad frontier exists, they make games that i want to play at my age, a perfect match. But you can't fanboy out on frontier thats just not what they do. If you need any evidence, look over at elite. Their core game has been languishing for months from nonexistent or poor community management.

Frontiers games quality all follow a certain pattern which i described in a previous post. If you want an indication of how frontier develops and release games, pro tip... BOTH elite and planet coaster have been released and evolved with the same level of quality and functionality, so just go look there. 2/2 gives me no reason to think jwe will be any different.

What id do is cancel any preorder, play it on your terms, and instead of making anything your chosen one, take it as it comes. Also id gladly change my opinion if frontier gives me a reason to before launch. The best part is, once its announced to your own non hype influenced assessment theres a good chance jwe will be good to your judgement!

And having said all that ive got 1.6k hours, spend hundreds in the cosmetics store and have 3 accounts for elite. Go figure

Me personally? They still havent announced a sandbox mode. I'm staying on my side of the fence until this is confirmed. Given i was actually right in frontier dont care about their retail offerings either, no improved deluxe edition, 80% steam sale at the moment. Im too busy playing elite. I only write this because if frontier had actually cared and included a soundtrack or artbook i would have instantly paid $70. But frontier dont care.

 

[Norsepath]

funny thing is that you've complained about exactly everything first you claimed that only 28 species of dinos where in the game... atleast 42 are proven to be in the game.

viewing attractions where you claimed only 2 diffrent types. 3 are confirmed if not more. BTW I won the bet

then you complained about the map size bulding area were you stated your argument on the old gameplay from matanceros (beginning island) we do know that the map size will be bigger then planet coasters biggest map in some of the isles

You've clearly only been negative about this game so far because thats your statement about the game. you don't have to buy it if you're so negative about it...

Comparing this game for the No Mans Sky before it's even released is just sad...sorry for my language but everything you've complained about is based on development build material an unfinished game!

I can tell that you have already made up your mind off what you feel about this game apparently.

 

[Baryonyx]

I've had plenty of positives to say. The dinosaurs look great, I've praised the fact there's missions and a sense of progress.

The poor AI and lack of cosmetics needs mentioning because it's the only way Frontier will improve it is if people complain about it been bad.

I hope the games great, but I've got a feeling it will be a let down when people realize how limited the actual building side is and how little there is to do to make things look unique.

 

[Lora Craft69]

I've had plenty of positives to say. The dinosaurs look great, I've praised the fact there's missions and a sense of progress.

The poor AI and lack of cosmetics needs mentioning because it's the only way Frontier will improve it is if people complain about it been bad.

I hope the games great, but I've got a feeling it will be a let down when people realize how limited the actual building side is and how little there is to do to make things look unique.

In your OP you attacked not only Frontier but also the community, that's why I didn't even wanted to answer it at first.
I think Frontier is well aware of what their fan base wants by now and the AI and animation transitions have been brought up quite a lot and looking at the 20 mins video from IGN I saw a real difference with the demo gameplay from before, that tells me they are working on it.
Personally, I was never expecting this to be a creative park builder, for me the dinosaurs are the attractions and the variety I want, I also don't care that every main street of every island will look somewhat the same.
I do hope with time they will bring out dlc's to add things.
If I wan't creativity I just start up Planet Coaster and play that.

 

[Andrew2018]

In your OP you attacked not only Frontier but also the community, that's why I didn't even wanted to answer it at first.
I think Frontier is well aware of what their fan base wants by now and the AI and animation transitions have been brought up quite a lot and looking at the 20 mins video from IGN I saw a real difference with the demo gameplay from before, that tells me they are working on it.
Personally, I was never expecting this to be a creative park builder, for me the dinosaurs are the attractions and the variety I want, I also don't care that every main street of every island will look somewhat the same.
I do hope with time they will bring out dlc's to add things.
If I wan't creativity I just start up Planet Coaster and play that.

That is what has baffled me. They have never shown this as anything like planet coaster. It wasn't a game to put down a million different looking decorations. You build dinosaurs and manage the park. I have never expected to build decorations and am happy not to. They have stated that the high end paths will have some sort of decorations like benches.

 

[Baryonyx]

That is what has baffled me. They have never shown this as anything like planet coaster. It wasn't a game to put down a million different looking decorations. You build dinosaurs and manage the park. I have never expected to build decorations and am happy not to. They have stated that the high end paths will have some sort of decorations like benches.

Not looking for Planet Coaster but it needs something otherwise every park is gonna look bland, dull and sterile.

Never said I want millions of options. Just something... Statues or fountains, sign posts etc so I can make the parks actually look like parks.

 

[Kevin Kyle]

I think I will wait for the game to be released and maybe an update or 2 before I get too excitied about what it has and doesnt have. My only complaint at this point is that kids and the petting zoo was removed even though I understand why. To me, they should make the kids like the people in that old game "Driver". It was impossible to run over anyone. They were all just way too fast. I wish they would put the kids back in and do a similar thing with them. That way no kids would get ate.Just the slow adults would be vulnerable. Like most games, Im confident things will get better with time.

 

[Andrew2018]

In your OP you attacked not only Frontier but also the community, that's why I didn't even wanted to answer it at first.
I think Frontier is well aware of what their fan base wants by now and the AI and animation transitions have been brought up quite a lot and looking at the 20 mins video from IGN I saw a real difference with the demo gameplay from before, that tells me they are working on it.
Personally, I was never expecting this to be a creative park builder, for me the dinosaurs are the attractions and the variety I want, I also don't care that every main street of every island will look somewhat the same.
I do hope with time they will bring out dlc's to add things.
If I wan't creativity I just start up Planet Coaster and play that.

I think I will wait for the game to be released and maybe an update or 2 before I get too excitied about what it has and doesnt have. My only complaint at this point is that kids and the petting zoo was removed even though I understand why. To me, they should make the kids like the people in that old game "Driver". It was impossible to run over anyone. They were all just way too fast. I wish they would put the kids back in and do a similar thing with them. That way no kids would get ate.Just the slow adults would be vulnerable. Like most games, Im confident things will get better with time.

What do you mean removed? Frontier has never stated they were In than removed.

 

[Kevin Kyle]

It was mentioned somewhere but I dont recall where that was. It was some time back when this all began.

 

[Astaran]

I think especially us older gamers have been burnt so often in the past, that we've become a rather suspicious bunch of people. We've all held high hopes for a game in the past, only to see those hopes terribly disappointed on release day. When I look at the footage and videos of Jurassic World: Evolution I think "Damn, this looks so amazing.", but at the same time, there's this nagging voice in the back of my head that says "Careful, it might become the next big disappointment." That's why I haven't pre-ordered the game yet and why I hope Frontier releases another (more final) gameplay video before release. It always boils down to the usual pre-release "hope vs fear"

Let me exemplify this with the AI discussion:
If the Dinosaur AI is only half as impressive as the Dinosaur animations and their models, then there's nothing to worry about. The attention to little details in animation and color schemes still blows my mind away. Since the Dinosaurs are clearly the main attraction of the game and the Devs have spent a great deal of time to make those Dinosaurs the best looking Dinos in any game so far, I have high hopes that the animal AI received the same level of attention. But as a matter of fact: We simply don't know much about the final game AI yet. Animal behavior in the earlier (gameplay) builds looked somewhat "static" (e.g. the groupings of three Struthiomimus who face each other and then talk about the weather or about whatever Struthi wasn't in the group at the moment). Then again, trailers of the game clearly show groups of herbivores moving together through the paddocks in herdes.
We've also seen gameplay videos in which a large carnivore attacked a Triceratops, while a second Triceratops just stood around, minding its own business. It would be somewhat disappointing if the animals were artificially locked into "1vs1" duels, despite scientific evidence that at least some would actually cooperate to defend themselves from predators. For all we know, Triceratops would form defensive formations to fend off the attacker (there's an example from JP Lore in the Lost Worlds novel, when a herd of Triceratops formed a defensive ring to fend off the attack of a pack of Velociraptors).

The scenes of herbivores fleeing from attacking carnivores (most famously the Triceratops running from the Raptors or the scene from the Spinosaurus dossier) could be fully functional game AI, but also simply scripted animations for the trailers. Until we see this behavior taking place in actual gameplay footage, we simply don't know the truth. Again: hope vs fear


"Cosmetics":
Another aspect that's frequently mentioned is the perceived lack of "cosmetics" like trash bins or banks. I wouldn't degrade those items to a purely "cosmetic" status (as in they do not effect the rating of your park in any way, shape or form). On the contrary, I'd argue that those details should have impact on your park rating and the overall satisfaction of your visitors. Having a nice little picnic spot next to a Sauropod enclosure or a scenic route with benches, hedges and stationary binoculars around the T-Rex paddock should make your little visitors happy and increase park rating. At the moment, the construction part of the game looks a bit bare bones to me. Therefor, such items should be part of the initial game release or at least should be added in a later patch (if the fixed release date is an issue). Additional items and/or collections of items can still be sold via DLCs at a later time.


To conclude, I do not think that voicing concerns is equal to being "overly negative of the game". Constructive feedback is vital for improvement and to iron out possible design flaws before they can become an issue in the final release. As we have seen, Frontier took some of the feedback from testers in the first gameplay video to the heart and showed an improved version of the game in the latest IGN gameplay video. Therefor I hope they also read and listen to concerns about AI, "cosmetics" and the immortal (Power ) Rangers and either address it in a Dev Diary or a new gameplay video.

 

[blubbit]

There's a question here with an answer that might calm everyone or raise concerns. How old are the demo builds we've seen?

From the past to today, developers have used old builds when demoing their game. We know that the March demo was an older build. How old is unknown (idk where you're getting the information that it was a recent build, please link me if you have it), but it certainly explained why grass was growing through pathways or why dinosaurs were behaving as they were. It was very clear that much of that behavior was not intentional, specifically the herbivore AI being unresponsive to predators.

There is clear evidence that the demo build AI is not how it is meant to be. Trailers of the game depict the herbivores fleeing or becoming defensive against their predators. The trailers, in my opinion, are the expectation and standard we should set for Frontier, because that's how the finished product is intended to look, or akin to that. We've seen in the most recent profile Spinosaurus taking down a fleeing hadrosaur. In the March demo, the animation of the Ceratosaurus attacking the Struthiomimus suggests that the two animals are meant to be in movement when the animation triggers.

There is a lot of evidence that suggests that what we see in the most recent showcasing is not the intended final product in terms of the AI, and that the herbivores are meant to react to the carnivores and not just stand around as if they don't exist.

As for cosmetics, that's something I cannot comment on. Much of the actual park building portion of the game has not been seen.

I think likening it to No Man's Sky might be a bit of a stretch here. Calling No Man's Sky's launch "mediocre" is putting it gently. Hello Games received major backlash because they simply lied about features that would be in the game. This coupled with the fact that there was not much to the game inherently and huge overhype from its following resulted in a very huge impact on gaming in general. Like how many games are likened to Dark Souls if they're hard, many games are likened to No Man's Sky if they fail to meet expectations, especially if they're ambitious games.

Frontier may have been hyperbolic to boast their game, but I don't think they've flat out lied about features. Evolution is not an overly ambitious game like NMS was. To paraphrase JP, Frontier is standing on the shoulders of geniuses and taking the next step. In many regards, Frontier has also been very transparent about Evolution, whereas Hello Games was always secretive in nature.

That being said, I do think we should ground our hype a bit. It's still a video game. The AI won't be as advanced as we imagine it. Every single aspect about the game is the result of design. Every roar and behavior of the dinosaur will be manmade, that means limits do exist, and we will be able to see them. We must keep that in mind too and not make silly excuses for these limitations or perceivable errors.

In the end, we all just want this to be a good game. Everyone's concerns are rightful.

 

[Baryonyx]

And Frontier have just announced they're changing the Spinosaurus roar because of complaints and feedback.

That's why threads like this are important. Because it lets Frontier know their flaws so they can fix them

If nobody complained they'd think the AI and lack of cosmetics, and in this case, the Spinosaurus roar, were all fine.