PvP A newbie's questions about PvP...

[Labladorite]

I am new to PvP and I would like to ask some questions. I am a shield tank Fer-de-Lance pilot.

1. Is there a Discord server that I can join and talk to other combat pilots?

2. Which is better for PvP - shields with better overall resistance values or shields with better absolute HP?

3. Should I sacrifice one of my hardpoints to carry a Feedback Cascade rail gun (in respect to random encounters)?

4. Should I sacrifice one of my utility mounts to carry Chaff (in respect to random encounters)?

5. I often see full multi-cannon builds. I don't doubt that they deliver a considerable amount of Dakka, but just how effective are they for PvP?

6. Seeker missiles, are they any useful?

7. Should I use Burst lasers or Beam lasers?

8. What weapon should I get for my Huge hardpoint in order to utilize it as much as possible?

9. Gimballed weapons, are they a terrible idea?

10. What are the most useful weapon experimental effects for PvP combat?

Thank you in advance for your assistance. I have been pondering on these questions for the past three weeks and I'm about to lose my mind.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Fair warning, not a PvPer, but i listen to them a lot so pick things up. I'm sure a PvPer will be along soon to give you the real deal and correct any errors i make.

First thing i will say is PvP can be a bit of rock, paper, scissors. There is the "meta" that can change with time as people discover new techniques or FD make changes. So, let's imagine the current meta is to run heavily kinetic resist shields, becaue the meta says people should use kinetic weapons. So you do that, and then you run into someone running all lasers... ooops.

Of course, in big ships you can usually fit enough modules to get high resists across the board... with a lot of engineering.

And i think that has to be the first thing that is stressed, if you want to be competitive you will need to do a lot of engineering.

On to your questions:

1) Yes, there are. The main one is known as CGI (Galactic Combat Initiative), you can google their Discord. Personal recommendation, i don't like it, although probably the best place to get advice. Salt levels are off the scale there. Personally i'd recommend the PvP Hub (again google it). Salt levels are much lower. However, its not so much designed to to educate people with direct advice, but to help people find PvP duels, solo and wing. But people there tend to be decent and will offer advice. FD also run the Galactic University where some PvPers i think hang out. Not sure how useful it is for learning there, but some good PvPers did used to hang out there. Two other Discord PvP groups i'm aware of are Cobra Kai (i'm a member) who are focused on being the "good" guys, protecting people and running interference against bad guys. And the Alliance PvP defense force (forget the name actually) who protect the alliance through PvP. There are many others though.

Check out this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/253560-Public-Elite-Dangerous-related-Discord-servers

2) AFAIK, high resistance is still the meta. Although i guess it depends on ship and loadout.

3) This is one of those rock, paper, scissor issues. But many (most?) PvPers do carry SCBs, and without something to stop recharge you are going to be facing some drawn out fights.

4) Tricky one. I'm going to go with no for PvP. AFAIK, most decent PvPers use fixed weapons, so chaff is useless. Higher tier players are very good at hitting targets as well. Also chaff can be used as fixed by deselecting the target while chaff is going. And if you are flying a big ship, then chaff isn't so useful anyway. Maybe on a small ship, but then you usually need those hardpoints more.

5) Again, back to the meta and RPS. I'll leave this one to those who can speak more authoritivly on the topic.

6) They can be quite good for taking out external hardpoints once shields drop. However, if your opponent is carrying PDTs then you might just be wasting hardpoints. I've seen a few PvP vids with people using them. PvPers tend to prefer pack hounds, as PDTs struggle against them. ECMs are rare as far as i know, beause they are tricky to use i think, but those i suggest are the hard counter to pack hounds.

7) Very much depends on your build and ship really. Basically those sorts of questions are best left for when you are talking about specific builds. However, beams are tricky as they produce a lot of heat and PvP ships tend to run hot with the requirements for dirty drives, often requiring overcharged PP to power things like SCBs and SBs. I think this is one reason PvPers tend to favour kinetics sometimes. There is an engineering mod that allows beams to dump heat... as long as you hit the opponent.

8) Very much depends on what sort of build you are going for. Personally i enjoy a huge cannon with force shell to play pinball with ships, but i don't think that is recommended for PvP. By the way, as you say "my huge hardpoint" (singlar) that implies you are considering using either the FdL, Anaconda, or Cutter. Fair warning, the Anaconda is probably the worst of those 3 for competitive PvP. Cutter is a fat cow but can shield tank very well. The FdL is very popular for PvP. Overall though, you need to say what ship you are considering for specific advice.

9) Not always. Not all PvPers bother with chaff, so can be good against those, and you can always unlock the target if you are good without it and use them like fixed. You basically trade ToT for raw damage. However, the ToT usually more than makes up for it, as long as your opponent isn't chaffing. Meta says fixed though.

10) PvP battles tend to be long drawn out affairs when both opponents are equally matched, so i'd say the most important ones are those that shorten the length of battles. So feedback cascade is an obvious choice. Having corrosive on a weapon (ususally a MC) is also good for getting hull down quicker.

As I said, keep in mind i'm not much of a PvPer, and some of my advice might be lacking.

 

[Labladorite]

Thanks a lot for your answers, they have helped me greatly. Though I must say that the RPS aspect of all this really bothers me... I will seek out further help from the Discord servers that you have provided. Also,

8) By the way, as you say "my huge hardpoint" (singlar) that implies you are considering using either the FdL, Anaconda, or Cutter. Fair warning, the Anaconda is probably the worst of those 3 for competitive PvP. Cutter is a fat cow but can shield tank very well. The FdL is very popular for PvP. Overall though, you need to say what ship you are considering for specific advice.

I believe I have stated my ship in the beginning of the thread;

I am new to PvP and I would like to ask some questions. I am a shield tank Fer-de-Lance pilot.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Thanks a lot for your answers, they have helped me greatly. Though I must say that the RPS aspect of all this really bothers me... I will seek out further help from the Discord servers that you have provided. Also,



I believe I have stated my ship in the beginning of the thread;

Ah, sorry, missed that.

Yeah, FdL is a pretty standard choice for PvP. You have to shield tank because you'll die if you try to hull tank in one. It puts the paper in rock, paper, scissors.

Watch out for people with cascade. Good thing the FdL is fast, if you need to use one, boost the hell away and dodge like crazy before hitting that SCB.

Good luck with your PvP endeavours!

 

[Arguendo]

I am new to PvP and I would like to ask some questions. I am a shield tank Fer-de-Lance pilot.

1. Is there a Discord server that I can join and talk to other combat pilots?

GCI would be your destination. It has changed a bit lately, and the level of discussions and general conversations have improved a lot. They have specific channels for exactly those questions of yours.

2. Which is better for PvP - shields with better overall resistance values or shields with better absolute HP?

Depends on your opponent. Are they running PAs, which deal quite a bit of absolute? Are they running thermal, kinetic, or explosive weapons?
High resistance and high MJs is the obvious answer, but one usually has to give, atleast a little. For an FDL, shields seem to hover around Reinforced Prismatics with 2xHD, 1xRA, 1xTh boosters, or variants thereabouts.

3. Should I sacrifice one of my hardpoints to carry a Feedback Cascade rail gun (in respect to random encounters)?

Yes. SCBs are free healthpoints if the opponent doesn't have Feedback Cascade.
Note; for wing fights the answer depends on what your wingmates are bringing.

4. Should I sacrifice one of my utility mounts to carry Chaff (in respect to random encounters)?

Yes. You don't generally need more than 4 boosters and 1 Heatsink launcher, so the last one is nice to put a chaff launcher on. Never know when someone brings gimballed weapons, and that takes down their TOT considerably. For Bi-Weave FdLs (not yours quite yet I presume) it becomes even more important imo, as a gimballed weapon is a direct counter to Bi-Weave regen.

5. I often see full multi-cannon builds. I don't doubt that they deliver a considerable amount of Dakka, but just how effective are they for PvP?

They need to be fixed and you need to be good, as they require very high ToT. There are better options for maximum oompf, which is why you don't see many of them anymore. They are fun, but only really effective in the right hands.

6. Seeker missiles, are they any useful?

Against hulltanks they are extremely OP.

7. Should I use Burst lasers or Beam lasers?

Burst imo. Beam requires too much distro draw, so DPE should be higher on Burst.

8. What weapon should I get for my Huge hardpoint in order to utilize it as much as possible?

Most common I see on FdLs are PAs and Gimballed MCs, though some put lasers there. I go for PAs.

9. Gimballed weapons, are they a terrible idea?

They are not a great idea, but people use them. Most commonly they use a mix of gimballed and fixed though, as gimballed have a hard counter in chaff and then you have dispersal PAs to worry about.

10. What are the most useful weapon experimental effects for PvP combat?

Decide on weapons first, then experimentals.
For PAs; Target Lock Breaker and Dispersal are the goto experimentals.

Thank you in advance for your assistance. I have been pondering on these questions for the past three weeks and I'm about to lose my mind.

A trip to GCI will save your mind in the future

 

[Mean_Mr_Grinch]

I am new to PvP and I would like to ask some questions. I am a shield tank Fer-de-Lance pilot.

1. Is there a Discord server that I can join and talk to other combat pilots?

2. Which is better for PvP - shields with better overall resistance values or shields with better absolute HP?

3. Should I sacrifice one of my hardpoints to carry a Feedback Cascade rail gun (in respect to random encounters)?

4. Should I sacrifice one of my utility mounts to carry Chaff (in respect to random encounters)?

5. I often see full multi-cannon builds. I don't doubt that they deliver a considerable amount of Dakka, but just how effective are they for PvP?

6. Seeker missiles, are they any useful?

7. Should I use Burst lasers or Beam lasers?

8. What weapon should I get for my Huge hardpoint in order to utilize it as much as possible?

9. Gimballed weapons, are they a terrible idea?

10. What are the most useful weapon experimental effects for PvP combat?

Thank you in advance for your assistance. I have been pondering on these questions for the past three weeks and I'm about to lose my mind.

I started with the FDL for my pvp ship. It's got some quirks to it and takes a lot of practice to fly it well. May I suggest a hull tank/bi-weave assault ship? It's easy to fly and you'll probably learn faster in it. Anyway, on to your q's. Now I'm not one of the best so take this with some salt.
2. It depends on your ship and what shields you're using. If you have low shield stats you want every mj of shield strength to count. So res aug booster with bi-weaves is what you want. Bear in mind that the more boosters you add the longer your regen and broken regen time. With these builds you want your shields to come back fast. Banks are usually worthless on these builds. Then there's the opposite. Prismatics or class A shields. These you want high shield points. So a bunch of hd boosters and maybe a res aug booster or 2. You want high points with these because when your shields break they're gone for the rest of the fight. These builds usually benefit from banks.
3. Simple answer is yes. Most people carry rails on a pvp fdl. This is 2 fold. 1st is to try to make banking less effective with feedback cascade. The second and more important reason is you need a weapon that can hit at a far distance, otherwise your target will keep his distance and pound you with rails.
4. Again, this depends on your set up. If you're a bu-weave hulltank you only need 2 or 3 res aug boosters. The other spots are up to you. I like heat sinks. If you're a shield tank it's harder to sacrifice a utility spot for chaff. Especially since a lot of pvp'ers use fixed weapons. You'll see the really good pilots do it, but they're very good at dodging and disappearing.
5. They're still pretty good at pvp. But don't let gimballed weapons be a crutch. Learning how to use plasmas and rails is a requirement if you want to get better. But starting with gimballed weapons is a good way to get started
6. Yes, extremely. But in my eyes they're op and take less skill so I don't use them. Plus, ammo limitations.
7. There's used for both. I'll get more into it if you want.
8. Lots of options. I like either a corrosive mc, or a oc'd plasma with oversize. Be aware you need to build your power plant for low heat if you go with oc'd plasmas.
9. Not at all. They're great when learning. Again, dont let it be your crutch.
10. A lot are good. Here's just a few I like. Target lock breaker, dispersal, corrosive (does not stack use on smallest hardpoint), drag drives, oversize, etc.

Edit - let me add a couple things. Before you bother engineering any of that stuff you gotta unlock Palin for g5 dirty drive thrusters and the Dweller for g5 charge enhanced distro. These are the most important part of your build and you'll be a step behind everyone if you don't have these mods.

If you wanna chat in game send me a friend request. I'm Mr. Grinch.

 

[The Replicated Man]

I am new to PvP and I would like to ask some questions. I am a shield tank Fer-de-Lance pilot.

1. Is there a Discord server that I can join and talk to other combat pilots?

Ninja'd!

2. Which is better for PvP - shields with better overall resistance values or shields with better absolute HP?

Better resistance is better for any build, however its good to balance said resistances as you can get diminishing returns if they are too high and the resistance is wasted.

3. Should I sacrifice one of my hardpoints to carry a Feedback Cascade rail gun (in respect to random encounters)?
Up to you, if you are a crack shot, go for it, it helps a lot against shield tanks. You can also use it to snipe modules once the shields are down.

4. Should I sacrifice one of my utility mounts to carry Chaff (in respect to random encounters)?
Again, it's up to you. If you are running into more gimballed users than fixed, than it might be a good idea.

5. I often see full multi-cannon builds. I don't doubt that they deliver a considerable amount of Dakka, but just how effective are they for PvP?

Quite effective I am afraid, if you are in a 1v1 and your opponent has a single chaff launcher and is running fixed guns (Plasma or rails etc) it enables you to fly a LOT more evasively and the Time On Target is awesome. That being said, chaff will make your day harder and double chaff users will wreck you.

6. Seeker missiles, are they any useful?

Don't get me started on these! I mainly fly hybrid builds (Light fast regen shields and heavy armor) and all it takes is 3-5 seekers and all my guns are gone. Very effective against hull tanks and hybrid ships.

7. Should I use Burst lasers or Beam lasers?

Up to you really, I would recommend Pulse as bursts are meh, I personally run 3 pulse lasers on the FDL (1 huge 2 med) and 1 med beam and 1 feedback rail. The beam cuts into the enemies hull once the shields drop and takes out modules quickly.

8. What weapon should I get for my Huge hardpoint in order to utilize it as much as possible?

Again, it's up to you and your flying style. Multicannon, Plasma, Beam, Pulse or a Cannon! All viable on the FDL

9. Gimballed weapons, are they a terrible idea?

See my comments up there ^^^

10. What are the most useful weapon experimental effects for PvP combat?

Target Lock Breaker & Dispersal Field on Plasma, Corrosion and Emissive on Multis, Drag on seekers, Feedback and Superpen on Rails. Scramble Spectrum and

Emissive on Pulse/Burst lasers, Thermal Vent on Beams. Force Shell for Cannons.

Thank you in advance for your assistance. I have been pondering on these questions for the past three weeks and I'm about to lose my mind.

No worries. I put my responses between your questions in the quote.

Once you join GCI you will have access to all the different builds out there.

07

 

[Labladorite]

Thanks all of you guys for your answers. I have read all of them carefully and I believe I have taken a step to the right direction.

 

[Sebastian Rooks]

Hmmm...Now I've got a question.

In regards to #5 and #9. What about the latency issues with P2P instancing? I've seen a few rather well known PvP players recently state that gimballed weapons are the solution to latency problems. Can someone corroborate this?

Rooks o7

 

[Morbad]

The game has aggressive latency compensation and even with fairly absurd pings, you will hit what you shoot at, as long as you saw the hit occur from your perspective.

The most obvious effect of latency in combat in Elite: Dangerous isn't needing to manually compensate for it (you can't) or it's impact on hits and misses, but the orientation each CMDR percieves their opponent to be in, and gimbals or not has no effect on this, except perhaps, to make a ship that looks like it's firing at you while facing 90 degrees off bore to look a little less odd.