Truly Unusual World request

mossfoot

mossfoot
An SF book from the 1950s that was highly influential on many a young SF writer was Mission of Gravity by Hal Clement.

I think it would be great if there was a world based on the crazy features of the planet Mesklin, a massive planet with both a super high gravity and such a fast rotation speed that the planet was oblong, with a gravity of 3G at the equator, and close to 700G at the poles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesklin

I wonder how close the Stellar Forge could replicate something like that?
 

Teh Smoo

T
As a non-landable planet? Maybe?

As a landable planet, this thing would be lethal, in a few very interesting ways. Mostly gravity at the poles.

As a good use of dev time? No.
 

trollson

trollson
Very much depends on whether Stellar Forge is bounded in the parameters it can produce. I would like to think not - much more interesting if there were potentially infinite tails to the process.

Stellar Forge is still bound to a process which generates (assumed) realistic bodies. The question is could a world like Mesklin actually form and hold together according to what we understand?

I would like to think, and its something I would have done, that Stellar Forge included some ultra-rare "anomalies" that it could throw into the mix - thinks like Ringworlds, Dysons Spheres, Rosettas, and other presumably ancient mega engineering remains, at the "handful-per-galaxy" number. No reason to tell the players...
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
trollson said:
Very much depends on whether Stellar Forge is bounded in the parameters it can produce. I would like to think not - much more interesting if there were potentially infinite tails to the process.

Stellar Forge is still bound to a process which generates (assumed) realistic bodies. The question is could a world like Mesklin actually form and hold together according to what we understand?

I would like to think, and its something I would have done, that Stellar Forge included some ultra-rare "anomalies" that it could throw into the mix - thinks like Ringworlds, Dysons Spheres, Rosettas, and other presumably ancient mega engineering remains, at the "handful-per-galaxy" number. No reason to tell the players...
Click to expand...

I'm sure the methodology behind the creation of Mesklin would have to be refined (even the author himself later said the polar gravity would probably be more like 250G instead of 700G). But I believe the premise is sound - a huge planet so the mass-based gravity is extremely high, but spinning so fast that the gravity at the equator is reduced. It might not be the exact same as Mesklin, but it would be an interesting scenario nontheless - a planet where it's safe to land at the equator, but lethal to land at the poles.
 

Teh Smoo

T
mossfoot said:
I'm sure the methodology behind the creation of Mesklin would have to be refined (even the author himself later said the polar gravity would probably be more like 250G instead of 700G). But I believe the premise is sound - a huge planet so the mass-based gravity is extremely high, but spinning so fast that the gravity at the equator is reduced. It might not be the exact same as Mesklin, but it would be an interesting scenario nontheless - a planet where it's safe to land at the equator, but lethal to land at the poles.
Click to expand...

Apparently it can't work? https://worldbuilding.stackexchange...spinning-for-the-centrifugal-centripetal-forc

I ain't running that math. But it seems like once it started to deform, it would deform MORE, and the planet would be torn apart.
 

trollson

trollson
The StackExchange topic is about whether centripetal force can balance gravity in a stable body - which seems unlikely but not impossible. It would require the body to be rigid enough to hold together. The Mesklin scenario still has a quite strong net gravity at the spin equator.

But as @TehSmoo summarises the issue is how it can get into this state. If the body is malleable enough to deform what would stop it deforming until it broke up?

One possibility might be if it started as a gas or water planet, and what remains is the core as the atmosphere or ocean was spun off. But to leave a 700G or 250G core the original body would have been star sized - or the remains very dense.

Or perhaps the body was cooling while it was being spun up, such that it became more rigid which stopped further deformation.

Actually, there are bodies approaching this state - neutron stars have the high mass and can have extreme angular momentum, up to thousands of rotations per second (millisecond pulsars). Would be interesting to compare the numbers on Mesklin with what is known to exist for rapidly spinning neutron stars.
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
Also, given the time that has passed, we should be looking at something LIKE Mesklin in concept, rather than hitting the exact numbers. Just a world that has strongly differing gravity at the poles and equator would be fascinating enough on its own
 

Teh Smoo

T
mossfoot said:
Also, given the time that has passed, we should be looking at something LIKE Mesklin in concept, rather than hitting the exact numbers. Just a world that has strongly differing gravity at the poles and equator would be fascinating enough on its own
Click to expand...

I'm still sad that Rukbat is the wrong color.
 

trollson

trollson
The first question to determine then is does the physics model used for the planetary environments include centripetal force offset to gravity?

Can this be tested?
 

trollson

trollson
mossfoot said:
Indeed - or, could it be easily implemented?
Click to expand...
The effective gravity model for Elite Dangerous will have to include centripedal forces in the context of spin stations, and may not be a negligible effect on asteriods.

I suspect that one of the issues with "Space Legs" will be how variable effective gravity will be modelled -- as you travel from the core to rim of a spin station, or in a ship under variable thrust. Even if you are "glued" to the deck by magboots, it would be required if you throw or drop an object.

It would probably be simpler to include centripedal component in any general effective gravity equation being used, rather than have special cases for different environments.
 
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