Was there a personal attack? Dang I missed it.
Do we really need another PvE Centric MMOG?
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Was there a personal attack? Dang I missed it.
Elite dangerous won't be like the original elite and it won't be EVE 2.0: twitch spreadsheets in space. It won't have massive apace battles (32 server limit). It will have balance because everyone is only limited by cash. There will be a perfect PvP build because someweapons will be strictly better then others. It will require dogfighting skills instead of only being in range.
Not bad points in general but while people haven't bragged about combat they have bragged about just visiting the sights. Sure it is limited at the moment but that's just for the moment.
So, good battles, I'm all for it. But for me and many others that enjoy the Elite franchise, it isn't the focus it is just something we can partake of when/if we want.
I'm sort of interested to know how one PvP battle differs from another? The fact that it's player generated will make not the slightest bit of difference. PvP is always about shooting, how can you make it any different?
Jenner has three telepaths in a vat of goo that tells her when a thread is going to have personal attacks.
It's the old pre-crime paradox. How can we tell if there ever was going to be a personal attack if Jenner has already prevented it happening?
No not in general. I could not care less about MMO games.
But of Elite there is only one! And that one we do need desperately.
Personally I am not a fan of any MMO type game.
If ED would have been released as a pure single player offline game I would perhaps have been even happier. I have my doubts about anything involving multi player. I am into games for immersion and the multiplayer part always detracts from that.
Having said that I feel FD is doing a hell of a job to create the best Elite game yet. It even makes me want to try the online multiplayer part. And that is saying a lot for someone who turned his old back on multi player almost 15 years ago.
I have absolutely no problem with PvP being an optional part of the game. However, Frontier has got the grouping largely correct, as PvP should only ever be optional.
Personally I've found PvP utterly dull and boring. I have slow reaction times which makes it very repetitive (I always lose). I enjoy PvE far more, especially when combined with the ability to chat to other players.
Adding PvP capacity for those who can twitch is great, but let's not forget content for others - we have money too and I'd like Elite to see some of it.
I could talk about personality tests, such as Myers-Briggs, or Belbin, or PF16, or the extrovert-introvert scale. The point is that people are different. What can be an exciting, absorbing, roller-coaster ride for some may be tedious and dreary for others.
Cheers, Phos.
Personally I've found PvP utterly dull and boring. I have slow reaction times which makes it very repetitive (I always lose). I enjoy PvE far more, especially when combined with the ability to chat to other players.
Adding PvP capacity for those who can twitch is great, but let's not forget content for others - we have money too and I'd like Elite to see some of it.
I could talk about personality tests, such as Myers-Briggs, or Belbin, or PF16, or the extrovert-introvert scale. The point is that people are different. What can be an exciting, absorbing, roller-coaster ride for some may be tedious and dreary for others.
Cheers, Phos.
Indeed.
I hope FD will add elements tot the game that stimulates players helping each other out. I would like to be able to rescue another player for example when his canopy is broken, or give him some fuel when he needs it, or help him out with repairs. Stuff like that.
If the developer only adds destructive mechanisms for player interaction, then that is what you will get. If on the other hand the dev succeeds in adding mechanisms for players to help each other out, to assist one another then you will get a completely different outcome. The average human being has it in his nature to want to help others, but a game needs to make that possible. If the only thing he can do in the game world is point his gun and pull the trigger than that is the kind of interaction you will get.
It would be so great if one day in ED I could react to a distress call coming from a planet and discover a player stranded there and save his avatar's life. That would be a wonderful and memorable experience. It would be much more memorable than killing other players over and over again.
Very true!
When some people bring up the very best in PvP action - many of them will mention huge raids in WoW or Lotro, or that Burn Jita thing in Eve, or the more recent huge fight they had. They were apparently epic, unbelievable, just massive and exhilarating.
Nobody will mention the rubber-banding, dropouts, lag, server confusion or the incredible feeling that although much was done - very little had been achieved.
Elite has a pretty unique opportunity here to do something different, create incredible gaming experiences in a purposefully limited player instance - so we precisely avoid all that unpleasantness and actually have fun
PvP doesn't have to be about the 'pew pew'
I would say you can have Player vs Player without shooting.
This is what frustrates me about the PvP vs PvE debate, some of the PvE faction seem to be irrationally scared that they will be preyed upon by other players. This leads them to want solo play or all sorts of mechanisms to 'protect' them from pew pew by other players.
I want a world with rich interactions with other players, sometimes cooperative, sometimes antagonistic. Content generated by other players (witness the Freeport piracy situation, with vigilantes, 'tax collectors' etc. I may a viper pilot who offered escort for a cargo container, after a chat) is better than relying on content from devs. I want he debs to o the big stuff, Feds vs Alliance etc andlet players fill in the smaller details.
Yet when someone advocates a PvP world the G word gets chucked about and it's all talk about how they just like to shoot down innocent traders to make up for their sad existence in real life.
I would say you can have Player vs Player without shooting.
- You could have two couriers racing to deliver a package
- Simple trading against other traders to make a profit can PvP
- Explorers trying to find a dark world to open up a new trade route
This is what frustrates me about the PvP vs PvE debate, some of the PvE faction seem to be irrationally scared that they will be preyed upon by other players. This leads them to want solo play or all sorts of mechanisms to 'protect' them from pew pew by other players.
I want a world with rich interactions with other players, sometimes cooperative, sometimes antagonistic. Content generated by other players (witness the Freeport piracy situation, with vigilantes, 'tax collectors' etc. I may a viper pilot who offered escort for a cargo container, after a chat) is better than relying on content from devs. I want he debs to o the big stuff, Feds vs Alliance etc andlet players fill in the smaller details.
Yet when someone advocates a PvP world the G word gets chucked about and it's all talk about how they just like to shoot down innocent traders to make up for their sad existence in real life.
Fedhman Kassad
Banned
I do need it since there's like....none? Eve's zerg-festing gank-fest spreadsheet is populated simply because there's no alternative and it's PvE is non-existant basically.
It's because that's what people see in many other, PvP centric games... coupled with raising player toxicity and other bad stuff that happens practically in all of those communities.
Example: During technical alpha, Blizzard's Heroes of the Storm had a very small but very nice community, since proper alpha started, the toxicity of the community is raising practically every day, because they are admitting random WoW/Diablo/StarCraft players to it.
DB doesn't want that happen either, that's why he affirmed his opinion that ED is a coop game first, and a PvP game last, again in the GamesCon interview... many humans just can't handle a competitive environment where they are anonymous and can not held responsible for their actions, apparently.
For players go co-op, you need players. You can't co-op in solo!
But with co-op should come the possibility of double crossing and back stabbing.
Some of the PvE crowd are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water by seeking to avoid any possibility of player attack, they advocate little, or highly constrained player interaction.
I'll repost this here since it was merged and typically buried at the tail end of another one of these types of posts.
FAO: PvP'ers
PvP will be a part of Elite - but unlike Eve Online and other games its not going to be handed to you on a silver plate.
A 1:1 scale galaxy was never going to be PvP friendly. For starters players will probably be outnumbered by NPCs that live in that gameworld by 50:1. That alone makes it pretty much a PvE-centric game.
Also PvP works in other games because everyone is squeezed into a tiny gameworld and are literally forced to interact. This is a common mistake people coming from those games make when they think about Elite. You can't make those mechanics work in a gameworld that is pretty much infinite as far as players are concerned. And to force players to interact via choke points and limited resources goes against the whole ethos of the Elite games. They were about freedom and open world one man vs the universe gameplay - not artificial boundaries geared to steer the player down a certain path.
The various group mechanics that link solo and multiplayer modes, instances, and the vastness that is open for you to get lost in make it more of a flexiplayer game than a typical steadfast multiplayer or singleplayer online game. If you want regular PvP in a flexiplayer game you will have to seek like-minded players and organize your own events. Otherwise as the game opens up further and players spread ever further apart, you're going to grow more bored and frustrated at the lack of action if your preferred gamestyle revolves around PvP.
I'm sure FDEV will eventually implement PvP specific events that attract those that want it - something akin to NPC faction wars that you can sign up to and where you will be assigned missions that will bring you into contact with enemy combatants. But bare in mind that when you have players that are literally days travel or even weeks travel realtime apart in the same gameworld, the only way PvP will work is if those that want it stay fairly close-by and have organised their own events that draw them together at specific places at specific times. That's realistically the only way it was ever going to work in a game of this size.
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Player interaction will be constrained, as human interaction is constrained in the real world, through law and punishment... I don't quite understand where the problem is there? I'm not talking about the people that want to play solo, they can do so anyhow, but my guess would be that most players will start to play in open mode, and will stay there if the experience is desirable.
Oh well another post about Eve Online, how tiresome...
This is only because you are giving PvP more importance than it has. There is no over-riding competitive element in ED. If a player doesn't want to engage with other players today (for whatever reason) she can enjoy the game in Solo Online. If she does then she plays in the All group. 'Avoiding PvP' likely has nothing to do with it and exists only in the mind of the dedicated PvP player.
Elite is always going to feel a bit odd compared to other multiplayer games given the sheer scale of the universe, and the bottom line for me is that I want to be immersed in that universe, to do whatever takes my fancy.
Strangely, over the course of the past 6 months as the Alpha and Beta have progressed I've backed away from my initial "Elite should be single player" entrenched position, in favour of staying in multiplayer-all wherever possible. I'm even coming round to the idea that perhaps leaving the transponder on might be the way to go (OK, I can't type that without a little shudder) - given the relative infrequency that player ships pass in the night in Beta. The universe is pretty empty right now...
So, making the universe (or at least the core systems) feel interesting, alive and exciting should be the goal - irrespective of whether you can attach an artificial MMO/PvP/PvE label to it. Given the size of the universe PvP guys are just going to have to accept that most action will be against AI mobs, and those of a less confrontational position are just going to have to accept that, if they dip their toes in open waters, occasionally they're going to get bitten.
Ultimately, It should just be Elite. As per 1984 gameplay. Ignoring modern conventions. But with players in. Doing what they want. And accepting the consequences. Assuming the instancing works.
Strangely, over the course of the past 6 months as the Alpha and Beta have progressed I've backed away from my initial "Elite should be single player" entrenched position, in favour of staying in multiplayer-all wherever possible. I'm even coming round to the idea that perhaps leaving the transponder on might be the way to go (OK, I can't type that without a little shudder) - given the relative infrequency that player ships pass in the night in Beta. The universe is pretty empty right now...
So, making the universe (or at least the core systems) feel interesting, alive and exciting should be the goal - irrespective of whether you can attach an artificial MMO/PvP/PvE label to it. Given the size of the universe PvP guys are just going to have to accept that most action will be against AI mobs, and those of a less confrontational position are just going to have to accept that, if they dip their toes in open waters, occasionally they're going to get bitten.
Ultimately, It should just be Elite. As per 1984 gameplay. Ignoring modern conventions. But with players in. Doing what they want. And accepting the consequences. Assuming the instancing works.
Indeed... the whole debate is basically grounded in different viewpoints (doh). ED is a neither a pure PvE game, nor is it a PvP game... it's the simulation of a living, breathing universe, populated by PC's and NPCs, and BOTH of those are generating content for players to experience.
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