Can we get back to the car crash telly of watching the "game" please. I feel like the community bashing commentary doesn't do anyone any good...
The Star Citizen Thread v8
- Thread starter Yaffle
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Is there a delivery schedule for 3.3 to the Test zone? Any update on Bind Culling?
Sure. How about this vid, it shows the mining in 3.2. It works and is somewhat skill-based (with difficulty dependent on the material being mined). Maybe not revolutionary, but it is the inclusion of an actual gameplay mechanic that generally speaking works. To compare, it seems to be a small step up from the basic mining mechanic in NMS/ED, though with less modules involved compared with the more comprehensive ED system. The SC implementation does seem a few steps below the proposed new mining system of ED coming Q4. All in all not super exciting, not super terrible: a nice step forward.
Unfortunately, this vid also shows that the flight model is still very weird. When he starts moving around the rock the acceleration/deceleration is still very much reminiscent of 'no clip mode', without any indication there is any kind of mass/gravity influencing the flight model. It doesnt really compare with flying a massive T9 in a ring, which to me is somewhat essential to get that 'space mining' vibe. As someone else posted elsewhere, a design choice seems to be that all attention is on the rock itself; there isnt really much chance of anything happening. SC needs the equivalent of mining in a RES, where there are external threat to take account of. It would also make the crew aspect of mining more relevant because the current SC system is perfectly doable solo.
[video=youtube;_zlMpxORIm8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zlMpxORIm8[/video]
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Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Yeah, pretty much. For some it is not a matter of trying to "save" the money already possibly wasted by backers. That would be a mess, and probably would have to involve authorities. It is rather about raising awareness of the huge risk and minimizing further money to be wasted. I.e. if you firmly believed Theranos or Enron or Madoff funds were a scam, before they got exposed, would you just step out of the way and allow people to further invest in that money pit? You would? Ok, then what about if it was friends, relatives? There is imho a huge hole in regulation and control of crowdfunding that CR is fully exploiting sine die. Some think raising awareness is important for that hole to be filled.
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These additions are so iterative that it makes me wonder if they'll ever get around to building the universe. Can't see the forest for the trees if you will. Yay mining, yay exploration, yay whatever. So what do we do with them?
Well, I wouldn't just yell 'ENRON IS A FRAUD' day after day, week after week, month after month to the same six dudes who already agreed years ago. If people want to 'warn others', this is really not the place for it. You kinda have to warn people who, I dont know, dont yet agree with ya.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Well, I wouldn't just yell 'ENRON IS A FRAUD' day after day, week after week, month after month to the same six dudes who already agreed years ago. If people want to 'warn others', this is really not the place for it. You kinda have to warn people who, I dont know, dont yet agree with ya.
I disagree that a thread about Star Citizen is not the place for it. The discussions about the actual gameplay offered by the demo are as fundamental to this discussion as anything else happening around its development, especially given the game is not released yet and backers money is at risk. Every day. And pretty much every day there are news about it worth to discuss, it seems.
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As with all of CIG's feature mechanics though (and as I've said before, I don't have a particular issue with it as far as it goes), this is "mining tier 0.0" - according to Twerk, as with so many things in the game, it's going to get so much better "soon". Also, remember it's firmly locked behind a $140 paywall* once 3.2 is released to the PU, until such time as ship buying in-game becomes a thing.
*the Prospector seems to be currently unavailable on the RSI website but that site is such a mess I can't tell if I can buy it/upgrade to it or not.
Incidentally, I was watching the latest "Redacted" discussion on Twitch with Twerk, Wtfosaurus and Crucian yesterday (content starts at the 9 minute mark). Well worth a look if you can stomach the 2 hour running time and the intense theorycrafting, because it exposes a lot of the fault lines currently running through the project and the backers' dreams of how the game is going to turn out.
I intentionally left that out of my assessment, as I am unaware of any concrete changes/improvements that have been detailed, shown and given a solid release window. So I'm judging it 'as is', which is decent mechanic IMHO. And yeah, the stuff around it is silly. I dont think I need to point out the daftness of charging serious cash for the privilege of testing one specific feature in a very early alpha version of a what might become a game.
Fine, but then it isn't about 'warning others'. Either you want to warn others, in which case you go to places where these others actually post such as reddit or spectrum, or you just want to 'discuss' it here. But you cant have both.
Here's Tony Z's take on it
He starts off OK...
...but then gets a bit lost in the thrill of crewin' up and blowin' up asteroids.
Anyway, to each their own - I've never done any mining in ED, and I highly doubt I will be in SC either.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Fine, but then it isn't about 'warning others'. Either you want to warn others, in which case you go to places where these others actually post such as reddit or spectrum, or you just want to 'discuss' it here. But you cant have both.
Not sure why you think those are exclusive, for anything related with SC including its development.
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It's going to put the idea to rest, that "crowd" is a viable method to fund video game development. While in reality it's nothing more than a repeat of crowd funded oil drilling:
[video=youtube;kiyc0enBwfk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiyc0enBwfk[/video]
It's just a new old marketing spin.
Like it or not, but all that money wasted on "crowd funding" is lost for real developers with real products. There isn't a limitless supply, some great games have never been made, because crowd funding helped redirecting these millions to clever marketing pros with no idea about game design.
Goose4291
Banned
The problem with mining IMO in both games (Elite being used because its currently properly up and running) is that harvesting materials in game for false economies simply doesnt give anyone an incentive to do it, beyond credits (which are easier to acquire in other methods).
If you had economies impacted by the delivery of raw materials affecting production of tradeable goods, you'd see a lot more folk doing it IMO.
Why do you imagine so?
In the end what you get is credits - why do people have this conviction it makes a magical difference who you sell it to? Go to interface A or B exchange goods for cash.
Just so that I understand this correctly.
If, as Chris Roberts has stated when pressed, that the PU is the "released" game (ignore the development title Alpha), then you have to pay double the cost of a normal AAA title just to be able to perform a single core function in the game?
If, as Chris Roberts has stated when pressed, that the PU is the "released" game (ignore the development title Alpha), then you have to pay double the cost of a normal AAA title just to be able to perform a single core function in the game?
Like EVE? Honestly, I don't think SC is ever going to reach that level of BGS simulation - in fact, I'm not sure it's currently intended to. Players are apparently going to be outnumbered xxx-1 by NPCs in the 'Verse and as far as I'm aware, the impact of your trading actions are supposedly not going to make much more than a tiny dent on the overall economy.
Then again, as with all things Star Citizen, that could all change if CR decides a human-impacted economy would in fact be cool.
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Goose4291
Banned
Because if it takes me (handwavium made up timings) 40 minutes to mine 30k of credit profit that I can do in one A-B trading run, and there are no extra benefit of doing this, why (as an atypical player) would I choose the former?
Note; I'm not talking about proper player economies a la eve etc.
What Im saying is that if for example harvesting and delivering raw materials to a station had additional benefits (such as increasing availability of tradeable goods), the BGS and long term goal type players would be more.inclined to do it.
I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning - wouldn't adding "additional benefits" presuppose having a proper player-impacted economy running in the background (a la Eve or possibly ED, I rarely do any trading in ED so can't really comment on the mechanics of the economy in that game)?
Goose4291
Banned
Not necessarily. I think an example of what I mean is in order (in ED terms to make it easier to understand, what with it being a working game):
Without player interaction, the BGS generates a base level that reflects NPC trading in terms of produced goods, and the demand for them.
Players supply the raw materials (through mining), which increases the number of goods produced/lowers the prices of them (due to increased economies of scale).
This means the goods produced at that station are more plentiful, and cheaper than a station which hasn't been interacted with by players.
This increases the attractiveness of the system to player traders, as the low cost of goods means their profit margins are bigger, meaning that if a player faction was to put the effort in at the first point (supplying the station) they're helping their economy grow, and meaning they're getting more indirect help from the main non-aligned playerbase.
Naturally, this attracts player pirates to the region.
Which draws the 'white hat' bounty hunters in. And of course, their players aren't likely to be happy with this boat rocking either, leading to PF's taking up arms against the pirates.
Leaving you with a workable economy controlled by the players, which isn't a 'player economy' in the style that generates a metric tonne of Eve Fear on these forums, rewards a miner outside of cr/hr (which the current system doesn't beyond the simplistic transaction based BGS we have at present), generates player agency at all levels and creates emergent gameplay.
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