The Star Citizen Thread v8
- Thread starter Yaffle
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Interesting, but having googled various sources, I'm now not 100% sure exactly what the vision is for SC's economy. All I can glean reliably is that there will 90% more NPCs than citizens and there are various nodes of production which players can own but not influence, oh and players will never be able to influence the economy except sometimes when they can a little bit.
Jacques d'Orleans
Banned
To be quite frank, the 1 million+ backers lost their money the moment they gave it to Chris Roberts. Simple as that.
This man is notorious for overscoping his projects, delays without end and wasting budgets for unnesseary crap.
This was well known already before the Freelancer development a game which only was released because the Publisher (in this case Microsoft) stepped in, fired Roberst and cut the scale of the game back to a doable size thus making it realeasable.
All those overhyped fossils of the 1980's/1990' like Roberts, Schaefer, Molyneaux and so and so forth have made great games in the past, but they have no clou how modern game development works.
They're just full of themselves and living of their merits from the past.
The development of SC shows that in a astonishing way, the game is developed on the fly with no proper foundation, with no plan what is important and what not and with an engine who's already at the brink of collapsing.
The engine was chosen for the old game project before the community vote which changed the whole project, at that moment they should also have changed the engine and should have made one from scratch.
IMHO, right now it looks like SC and also SQ42 will be either never that what was promised by Chris Roberts or as a worst case scenario both games will never be released.
Again IMHO, the silence about SQ42 speaks volumes about the state of that game.
It could really be that one moment when stubborn Chris realises that he can't go on with his project because of >insert reasosn of your choice< he either pulls the plug or releases a final patch and that was it.
And I'm quite sure, if there would be a publisher, either Chris Roberts and most of his cronies would have been already removed from the project to safe it or the project would have been already shut down and written of as a loss.
TBH, i really couldn't care less if you guys stretched your credit card, mortgaged your house or blew your 401k up Chris Roberts southern end just because you believed in Chris Roberts pribble and prabble.
I really don't give a rats a*s, you want to learn the hard way, fine, go learn the hard way.
But don't come then and whine about you have been frauded and cheated. There were so many warning signs (and no, I don't mean Derek Smart, eff him) which you willfully choose to ignore.
It's your money, or better it was your money, it's gone. Accept that and write it off as a loss.
IMHO, this project will continue for at least three more years and then the inevitable end will come, and that will be the folding of CIG and the bursting of the bubble. Prepare yourself for a rude awakening.
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2400 Baud modem....I knew it......[video=youtube;dwZ5RLmBXrw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwZ5RLmBXrw[/video]
Live from Croberts office....2400 Baud modem meshing servers with 1000000 citizens in same instance......
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That sounds less like incentive and more like forced to do it. I thought you were meaning something fun like an incentive.
How about we populate enough NPCs to do the boring bits? Then we can concentrate on the more exciting stuff
Actually - with clever use of symbols and an appropriate protocol and backend for interpretation / distribution - even 2400 baud could maintain a few hundred players simultaneously.
The problem these days is, for example, state changes described in a few hundred Kb of XML instead of using, let’s say, the bittage of a few characters.
The problem these days is, for example, state changes described in a few hundred Kb of XML instead of using, let’s say, the bittage of a few characters.
You missed this other gem:
Scruffpuff said:
It's worth noting the kinds of games that came out at the tail end of when modems were still a thing and what they did to get around that whole problem. Ok, so they were 56k, not 2.4, but still: 2003 saw the release of two rather spectacular games in this regard: EVE, that would host hundreds of players (later thousands) in a single combat area, and Planetside, that would do something similar, but as an FPS.
The cleverness involved in solving the bandwidth issues in both cases — not just on the client side, but in the server architecture, where it also becomes a problem at this scale — is well worth looking into, and there are numerous presentations and conference keynotes that describe them.
Goose4291
Banned
I think WWII online should also get a mention from that era. It always amazed me how many people it could.support
And yet still see fit to bring it up.
As it is, that you see the quote as "vilification" and I do not is proof that it is subjective.
The truth is...the argument that referring to the Star Citizen community AS A WHOLE somehow infers a degree of specificity as regards individuals is wrong
The Star Citizen community...as a group...is toxic and cultish. That isn't just my opinion, but the opinion of others. It is a big reason why many backers pull out...the community is seen as hostile to critics and newbies.
Does the mean every Star Citizen player is hostile or toxic or engages in cultish behaviour?
No. It does not. The majority of the backers probably don't even read the various forums. But the community is defined by those who are most vocal, by those most ardent in its defence, by those who are seen as the communities leaders.
I am sure most individual Star Citizen backers, for example, would be horrified at the threats made to SidAlpha and his daughter.
But the visible "leaders" of the community...the most vocal defenders...took the opportunity not to simply condemn those threats but to throw out wild conspiracy theories and some even blamed SidAlpha.
What type of sick twisted person makes death threats against a child because her father published an opinion about a GAME?!
What sort of person then posts that it was SidAlphas fault and something he should have expected simply by publishing a video. Just look at Montoyas video on the subject and then come back and tell me his response is acceptable. An "apology" or condemnation followed by conspiracy theories and victim blaming is NOT an apology or a true condemnation. It is an attempt to deflect attention. That Montoya - and others - could not simply condemn the threats but had to throw out "False Flag" theories and more is one of the reasons the COMMUNITY - again, not individual backers - is seen as toxic. Because it is THEIR behaviour which taints that community simply because they are vocal, they are loud and they make sure everyone can hear them.
Most people, when reading the word "community", would not assume that it literally referred to "everyone" who makes up that community. That isn't how English works. Such literalness is usually to be found only with those who are, for whatever reason, defensive. As it is, sure...other groups have their share of crazies. But few groups appear as accepting of such behaviour as Star Citizen and it's vocal leaders and high profile "celebrities".
And yes...the balance may be shifting. Criticism may be more tolerated as more people (appear to) wise up about the game and its' true state. But that doesn't change that SCs community is seen as hostile, toxic and cultish or that they engage in actions which perpetuate those descriptors. It doesn't mean every or even most backers fit that description...but it only takes a few to taint the community. These people have engaged in death threats, deflection, victim blaming, conspiracy theories and more. They deny evidence and throw out wild guesses and unlikely scenarios in an attempt to avoid facing the truth about he game head on. That behaviour is, in the popular vernacular, cultish and toxic and because these people are vocal and loud and visible, they are the ones who define the community and how it is seen.
And these are also the people we expect to play with, to group with. And I'd prefer not to even be in the same instance as them. That that is the nature of the community is important. You can avoid the bad players easily in a single player game. Its less easy in an MMO.
As it is, if you feel something is "vilification", report it. If you feel the issue wasn't handled correctly...escalate. Just don't expect your subjective idea of what vilification is to be the yardstick by which posts are deleted or moderated.
I think any hope that CIG will release the game, at least, as promised, is gone. And I regret that 1 million backers will lose their money. I for one would LOVE to play Star Citizen....as it was supposed to be.
But...we aren't going to get that. We aren't going to get anything close to it. CIG will need years simply to add the promised content and thats not counting the gameplay, mechanics and whatever else was promised.
Never mind addressing the lack of design, the lack of a working engine and so on.
I am sure people will point out 3.2 as evidence CIG are making progress. Unfortunately, progress isn't what the game needs.
It needs a working viable engine tied to a decent design.
And it doesn't have that nor any sign it is going to get one.
I am going to be sad when SC finally sinks. But I don't expect that anytime soon. The only question I have is if CIG will stick around long enough to release some semblance of a game - and I think it will.
And as much as I regret that 1 million+ backers will lose their money, as much as I regret that I wouldn't be playing the game that was promised, I cannot say I think I will feel much pity for the toxic backers of the Star Citizen community who made the failure inevitable by refusing to hold CIG to account. They had their chance to pull out, they received lots of warnings, they were told time and time again that the game that CIG promised was not the game that CIG were going to deliver.
The game COULD have been delivered. That it now cannot be delivered, at least as promised, is due mainly to the mismanagement of Chris Roberts. Assuming it wasn't deliberate.
I still hope that I am wrong. That the hope in my heart is right, even while the sceptic of my mind is telling me it isn't. But unless major, major changes are made to how SC is being developed, the game you and I were looking for is dead. Anyone investing in this, anyone preordering items and paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for the privilege of letting Chris Roberts act as a director or giving Sandy her chance at stardom either needs to write it off or seek a refund (or try).
Because, I suppose, in a way, Star Citizen did fulfil its promise and did make dreams come true. Just the dreams of a very select handful of people, paid for by everyone else.
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Well, that's the first time i've seen a non-buggy mining thing, and my god, this is what has taken them months to develop? Basically point, hold, let go if it gets too hot, rinse and repeat. Its no different to ED, except more bars to watch, and so many stages....
Typical of CIG, hype something to hell, make it pretty (good if it works of course!), and then deliver a pretty much bog standard mechanic.
BDSSE!
Yeah, like Shroud of the Avatar!
Oh.... erm.... not a great example.
Something that I've ben curious about for a while.... Clipping and falling through "solid surfaces".
I can understand a little bit of "clipping" (collision detection inaccuracy) for "nobbly bits" like door handles or handrails where the "mesh" doesn't quite match the display as presented to the user, but can't quite see how this "mesh" fails to cope with, say, the floor of a spacecraft.
How is it that the handling of these "meshes" is failing to notice an entire floor?
I can understand a little bit of "clipping" (collision detection inaccuracy) for "nobbly bits" like door handles or handrails where the "mesh" doesn't quite match the display as presented to the user, but can't quite see how this "mesh" fails to cope with, say, the floor of a spacecraft.
How is it that the handling of these "meshes" is failing to notice an entire floor?
I'm absolutely no expert on this, and I really hope someone knowledgeable can properly answer - but in my experience in the continued "evolution" of the Freelancer since the early days, and it's many iterations and revisions - is that the constant "refactoring" of various shiny components has left some of the erm, defining geometry and bounding boxes and other bits of such unimportance - left far, far behind.
It's not falling through floor. You just don't understand game development. How else would you produce a sandworm if it couldn't burrow into the ground? You just hit a pipeline leading directly to this feature.
Of course, because 9 out of 10 SC owners haven't played SC yet to know how it looks like!
Jacques d'Orleans
Banned
Of course, because 9 out of 10 SC owners haven't played SC yet to know how it looks like!
9 out of 10 SC "owners" have already moved on and forgot to mention it.
whoopsie post
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Dos not compute. More information required
A whoopsie doesn't need to compute. It simply is!
Consider it something your cat left in your shoe on purpose, a real mistake that someone owns up to, a failure by someone unqualified to perform the task asked of them by someone who knew they were incapable, of the failure of equipment supposedly overdesigned for the job, and the complete inability of a genuine expert to explain and demonstrate his/her expertise.
Those are all whoopsies.
However, the biggest whoopsie of all time, is not buying an Idris.
*also - and so far I have filled many lulzbuckets with todays Reverse the Verse.
"I do the C++ - not the Flash" has got to be one of the most amusing things I've heard all year
And it gets better! According to this - their grouping system is going to be limited, even under Spectrum limits.
They are sill imagining how criminality works.
The guy who designed and implemented cash trading cannot work out how to trade cash between entities Entities only exist and possess themselves. They are still trying to work out what can be "traded".
They have no solid idea of what "groups" are or how interaction between individuals works. It's too big of an idea and there is too much data to test. They don't have enough time. Missions cannot be "shared" in - the pickeruper is the only one who can complete.
Dear lulzbucket - I'm only 19:44 in and have to retire for a bit and refresh the beer supply. I honestly cannot wait for the further joys that await within
Dear dear luzbucket - everything is still at the delightful tier zero implementation. What on earth was Item 2.0 about?
Christ I give up - my sides hurt and I think I laughed out a lung
Multiplayer instances maximum of 8! <lulzbucket explodes>
[video=youtube;_0exUk2mt6E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0exUk2mt6E[/video]
8 is apparently due to legacy systems that have been to busy to devote time to update. Hmm I wonder why that is. I do love that "technical guy" offers no technical explanation whatsoever. Oh this is good!
Oh - they are aiming for the game to be a shiny IRC
They expect server populations to expand past 50 clients "what do you take me for?"
An inexperienced n00b perhaps who continually says 3.0 and no versions beyond?
Why on earth are they iterating upon browser dependencies? Stick to standards and browsers matter not one bit - unless you are completely lost and standards are too much for you.
Their "party" ownership and limitation mechanics are broken beyond belief.
Peeps - this isn't even cutting room floor dross - but it is a "joke free program"
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Jacques d'Orleans
Banned
From the comments of the video you posted:
- Imagine in a few decades they will still be making these videos and be really old with grey hair and wearing dressing gowns and walking with a stick
- as Chris has added a few hundred more mechanics (like real time simulated toenail wear and tear and growth) to the game.
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