PvP PvP is awful

[Bdragon4]

Can someone explain to me how PvP is supposed to be a fun mechanic in this game? I was bounty hunting when this guy in a hot-rodded Sidey decided to dig into me in a Haz Res. So naturally, he was wanted and I turned my guns on him. He tried a little while, but then after 15 minutes of chasing him around and shooting him, he Low-Waked off with 10% Hull. Well, I have a Wake Scanner and an interdictor, so I figured I'd keep up the chase. Here's where PvP turned to trash for me. First, the game took forever to load me into Super Cruise. Not quite long enough for him to get away, but much longer than it should be. Then after that, once I'm in Supercruise, the guy is GONE. Nowhere to be found in the instance. That 100% ruins it for me. I got nothing but ammo expenses.

I usually play Solo and I love the idea of playing Open, but instancing and lag are the absolute worst. I can't even have a good interstellar chase! I know there was a big debate over making Power Play open, but I feel like the broken instancing and the P2P connections make that whole idea useless. And this is without addressing combat logging too. People may love PvP, but its going to be hindered until the game's infrastructure changes. You just can't do a good, deep multiplayer experience on P2P.
/rant

 

[dognosh]

he logged out I guess ?
yes it is a problem

 

[Bdragon4]

he logged out I guess ?
yes it is a problem

It was the most infuriating video game moment I've had in a while. Forget Space Legs and Atmo Landings. I want dedicated servers for Multiplayer. I feel like Open Play is pretty useless without it.
I've already gone through this with For Honor, so my patience with this kind of stuff is thin. I'm going back to Solo Play.

 

[Xious]

Can someone explain to me how PvP is supposed to be a fun mechanic in this game? I was bounty hunting when this guy in a hot-rodded Sidey decided to dig into me in a Haz Res. So naturally, he was wanted and I turned my guns on him. He tried a little while, but then after 15 minutes of chasing him around and shooting him, he Low-Waked off with 10% Hull. Well, I have a Wake Scanner and an interdictor, so I figured I'd keep up the chase. Here's where PvP turned to trash for me. First, the game took forever to load me into Super Cruise. Not quite long enough for him to get away, but much longer than it should be. Then after that, once I'm in Supercruise, the guy is GONE. Nowhere to be found in the instance. That 100% ruins it for me. I got nothing but ammo expenses.

I usually play Solo and I love the idea of playing Open, but instancing and lag are the absolute worst. I can't even have a good interstellar chase! I know there was a big debate over making Power Play open, but I feel like the broken instancing and the P2P connections make that whole idea useless. And this is without addressing combat logging too. People may love PvP, but its going to be hindered until the game's infrastructure changes. You just can't do a good, deep multiplayer experience on P2P.
/rant

Wait... what? You don't normally do PVP but you happen to have a wake scanner and an interdictor?

Then you get jumped by a Sidewinder in a Haz Res and can't kill him and then you rage quit back to solo because he jumped and you couldn't catch him?

Excuse me while I clean up the beer that I just spit all over the screen.

That was hilarious, thanks.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Without a subscription fee, dedicated servers just aren't happening.

 

[Grisnir]

Without a subscription fee, dedicated servers just aren't happening.

Combat log no, his ghost will still be in the game and die, menu log yes

In OP case didnt matter, since sidey got away and logged out or high waked out

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Combat log no, his ghost will still be in the game and die, menu log yes

In OP case didnt matter, since sidey got away and logged out or high waked out

Yeah true, but without dedicated servers the point is moot.

In this instance I'm sure you're right. Sounded like the guy had long enough for a menu log.

Anyway this is just an angrybrag topic.

 

[MottiKhan]

The sidey could have low waked away from you, then dropped back into normal space, then high waked to get away. It's a valid tactic if he didn't already have a high wake system selected.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

I don't think the 'hot-rodded Sidewinder' logged.

Sounds like he was just toying with you and knew just when to leave. You can engineer a Sidewinder to go stupid fast.

I often 'harass' big ships in an Imperial Courier or Imperial Eagle - you don't expect to win but you can always escape.

 

[Grisnir]

The sidey could have low waked away from you, then dropped back into normal space, then high waked to get away. It's a valid tactic if he didn't already have a high wake system selected.

He probably high waked, since everything can masslock a sidewinder

 

[MadMark]

P2P and instancing in Elite is for me the only real game-breaker I have with this game.
I don't even want to think about how squadrons is going to work when that finally arrives.
I very much doubt I will taking part in that.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

It was the most infuriating video game moment I've had in a while. Forget Space Legs and Atmo Landings. I want dedicated servers for Multiplayer. I feel like Open Play is pretty useless without it.
I've already gone through this with For Honor, so my patience with this kind of stuff is thin. I'm going back to Solo Play.

Welcome back.

 

[h347h]

It isn't good. The best pvp in the game is in CQC. Open pvp is only fun when its Power Play related.

 

[sutex]

Agree OP
"I love the idea of playing Open,
but I feel like the broken instancing and the P2P connections make that whole idea useless.
And this is without addressing combat logging too."

Cheer up , you have a new graphic model its call a Ship !. I've been away for ages due to on-board cargo stalking me, and have this week re-installed the game, to 'see' for any improvements. Yet within days and after all these years, I'm still reading the same complaints about open play and the inherent fundamental game play core mechanics, Instancing, P2P connections, Combat
Elite Dangerous core games mechanics is still so very flawed to the point of been 'broken', it's beyond a reasonable demand by players, that a game that has been released for so long still has not addressed and fixed! combat logging. I'm at a loss as to why Frontier that talks up OPEN still allows PvP cheats ?

Whether or not the Sidewinder the OP encounter used a valid tactic is unknown?, yet Combat logging is an issue in most Combat interactions.

This simple rule which should be applied in Open to stop Combat logging
if you loose connection after engaging another player or been engaged by another player, your ship blows up, and repeat offenders your re-buys triple.
The fact this is not been done only shows that indeed ED Instancing, P2P connection is a flawed system and should be dumped for server side game play for OPEN.

No need for Crowd Funding this time, as Frontier can afford to fix this game.

 

[Jefferson613]

Agree OP


This simple rule which should be applied in Open to stop Combat logging
if you loose connection after engaging another player or been engaged by another player, your ship blows up, and repeat offenders your re-buys triple.
The fact this is not been done only shows that indeed ED Instancing, P2P connection is a flawed system and should be dumped for server side game play for OPEN.

No need for Crowd Funding this time, as Frontier can afford to fix this game.

Here's the thing about that, even if they did implement that, the player could very easily claim that the p2p connection was bad/ internet and they dced... And all it would do is make more work for support.

I would pay a monthly subscription and probably play in open more often if there were dedicated servers, cause right now playing in open is a laggy buggy mess, and takes away my enjoyment of the game when I have to wait almost a full minute to drop out of super cruise if there's more than one Cmdr... And the rubber banding ugh!

 

[ilo]

I think this will go to the history records as the first solo-player that hates PVP because the only day he plays in open didn't get killed in a second.

 

[Devari]

Can someone explain to me how PvP is supposed to be a fun mechanic in this game?

It's not. I'll give you a little history of PVP in Elite to demonstrate that it's never been balanced or fun.

During the first year of gameplay, i.e, prior to Engineers, it was mostly an issue of whether you used one of the semi-exploitive gold rush methods such as Robigo to get yourself an Anaconda or other large ship. Otherwise the income earning methods were generally too low to support proper PVP as you would be at a massive disadvantage without an equivalent A-rated ship.

During most of Horizons the game balance was dramatically shifted with Engineers to the point that certain unique PVP metas dominated PVP. Either you had the overpowered thermal shock weapons and used the heat meta to cook another player's ship, or you weren't competitive, and the meta frequently changed as certain overpowered weapon effects were nerfed and others became dominant. Unfortunately during this time there was also a certain Engineering exploit where the main PVP groups were systematically cheating and ended up with absurdly powerful ships at the absolute top end of the Engineering spectrum. The combination of continually shifting PVP meta weapons and cheaters who were using the Engineering exploits meant that PVP throughout almost the entirety of Horizons was massively imbalanced and strongly favored griefers.

Now with Beyond we have another issue where the new Engineering system is currently as absurdly powerful as the previous system was when certain players were using exploits. Unfortunately FD has done nothing to bring prior players who legitimately Engineered their ships in the old system up to an appropriate level of power in the new system. As a result anyone with "legacy" mods (i.e., modules Engineered under the prior system) are again no longer competitive with PVP against players using the new Engineering system. This means that unless you're willing to re-grind all of your Engineering modules there's no point to trying to engage in PVP at all because the ship you're fighting against will most likely be at least 15-25% more powerful with the new Engineering mods.

On top of these issues, there is still a completely ineffective C&P system and if anything the changes in Beyond actually make griefing and trolling easier than it was before because bounties are now attached to ships and modules rather than directly to players. That means that anyone who prefers griefing to proper PVP has no reason not to continue greifing other players. There is also no fix to address combat logging due to various technical limitations and the fact that the game is still very unstable and disconnects frequently occur. This means that anyone who wants to avoid PVP entirely can still use combat logging as a hard counter to being griefed.

Essentially the answer is no, PVP is not supposed to be a fun game mechanic because it has never been properly balanced since the game launched. It's also something that is nearly impossible to balance at this point so it's probably best to simply pretend that PVP doesn't exist and that Elite is simply a PVE game where certain players occasional engage in griefing and trolling behavior.

 

[Devari]

I don't think the 'hot-rodded Sidewinder' logged.

Sounds like he was just toying with you and knew just when to leave. You can engineer a Sidewinder to go stupid fast.

I often 'harass' big ships in an Imperial Courier or Imperial Eagle - you don't expect to win but you can always escape.

My Sidewinder does 665 m/s boost with a full combat fit and my Imperial Eagle does 600 m/s also with a full combat fit. Both are fully armed and armored with military alloys and are still too small and fast for anything to hit them.

 

[Zeeman]

The sidey could have low waked away from you, then dropped back into normal space, then high waked to get away. It's a valid tactic if he didn't already have a high wake system selected.

Yup, agreed. I do this if I'm clearly outmatched. I don't actually want to die...

Seems OP is upset because humans do not act like NPC's...

Z...

 

[sutex]

Here's the thing about that, even if they did implement that, the player could very easily claim that the p2p connection was bad/ internet and they dced... And all it would do is make more work for support.

I would pay a monthly subscription and probably play in open more often if there were dedicated servers, cause right now playing in open is a laggy buggy mess, and takes away my enjoyment of the game when I have to wait almost a full minute to drop out of super cruise if there's more than one Cmdr... And the rubber banding ugh!

That's the point....open is a laggy buggy mess ... And if you loose connection TOUGH ! your ship still blows up.. wonder how long before things would change then