Hardware & Technical Joystick Recommendations

I've suffered the exact same quandry and am now on my 4th T.Flight Hotas X in 3.5 years. Don't get me wrong, I love that stick and I think it's amazingly robust for the money and (at £29 a go) still reckon' I'm quids in. I am now thinking tho' that when this one goes I might switch to the T.16000. I tried one at the expo last year and it's really nice. The only problem (and it's probably why I've stuck with T.Flight's for so long) is that the thought of re-learning all the bindings and stick control muscle memory fills me with absolute horror! :eek:[haha]
 
I intend to get one of these when I can afford it: https://virpil-controls.eu/vpc-warbrd-delta-flightstick.html
[slight rant warning ]
I find the warbird base kinda silly.
I still wouldn't mount that to a desktop.

Granted I don't think there is such a thing as a "desktop flight stick".
Even a t-flight x should be mounted at about knee height in a fashion that would allow you to use the stick with your arm hanging straight down, and elbow at a relaxed 90 degree angle.

Like the mounting position in game.
Seriusly your shoulders and back will thank you.


Other than that I am loving the crap out of my mongoose and base.
Almost contemplating getting a second gimbal and the delta stick in lieu of a throttle for a left hand.
But if the virpil throttle comes with a good and decent analog thumb stick I would probably prefer that.
 
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I find the warbird base kinda silly.
I still wouldn't mount that to a desktop.

Granted I don't think there is such a thing as a "desktop flight stick".
Even a t-flight x should be mounted at about knee height in a fashion that would allow you to use the stick with your arm hanging straight down, and elbow at a relaxed 90 degree angle.

Like the mounting position in game.
Seriusly your shoulders and back will thank you.

I have my hotas attached to the arms of my chair at the moment and my arms rest on the arm rests. I would do the same thing with this (I have a seperate throttle to use). Been playing like that for over a year and find it perfectly comfortable.
 
I've suffered the exact same quandry and am now on my 4th T.Flight Hotas X in 3.5 years. Don't get me wrong, I love that stick and I think it's amazingly robust for the money and (at £29 a go) still reckon' I'm quids in. I am now thinking tho' that when this one goes I might switch to the T.16000. I tried one at the expo last year and it's really nice. The only problem (and it's probably why I've stuck with T.Flight's for so long) is that the thought of re-learning all the bindings and stick control muscle memory fills me with absolute horror! :eek:[haha]

Exactly so - even just having to disable the twist/yaw function on my T-Flight has me floundering around like a buffoon - it's very frustrating. However, yes I am very tempted by the T.16000, in part because the throttle and joystick are on separate USB cables, and so if I can mix and match further down the road, if needed.

As an aside, with 5+ years use out of my T-Flight I'm beginning to suspect I either don't play as much as others, or tend to fly in straight lines a lot more... :S [smile]

Tomorrow I will receive my third X-56 HOTAS (my 2nd replacement). Logitech claims to have fixed the X-56 problems and to their credit have performed extremely well replacing the crappy Mad Catz versions...

I did look at the X-56, but it's reputation for breaking is too much of a hurdle for me, particularly at around £250. I also like to have a mirrored/independent yaw control on the throttle... ...gawd I sound soooooooo blooming picky!!! :rolleyes:
 
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As an aside, with 5+ years use out of my T-Flight I'm beginning to suspect I either don't play as much as others, of tend to fly in straight lines a lot more [smile]

As a known SRV officiando and planetary circumnavigator I suspect I've knackered at least two by wrenching the stick around violently while learning how to control the damn thing! [hotas]
 
Well I've stopped dithering and have ordered a Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Hotas.

Will let you know how I get on converting from the T-Flight. Thanks everyone for your input - very much appreciated and what a nice community we have!

o7
 
I've suffered the exact same quandry and am now on my 4th T.Flight Hotas X in 3.5 years. Don't get me wrong, I love that stick and I think it's amazingly robust for the money and (at £29 a go) still reckon' I'm quids in. I am now thinking tho' that when this one goes I might switch to the T.16000. I tried one at the expo last year and it's really nice. The only problem (and it's probably why I've stuck with T.Flight's for so long) is that the thought of re-learning all the bindings and stick control muscle memory fills me with absolute horror! :eek:[haha]

Coming from your same route but made backwards :D ("downgraded" from a T.16000 to a Hotas X), I can grant you that if you will suffer the same kind of trauma I had about the loss of precision, but in reverse, you'll be literally entranced with the T.16000 awesome responsiveness. Still, now that I'm used to the relative vagueness of the Hotas X (Joystick Curves saved my life), its simple yet effective throttle and its superior stick ergonomics would be hard to trade back. That said I reckon that my 1st version T.16000 was a bit of a different beast from the new FCS, the latter's stick has been improved in places (better buttons feedback, ridged hat instead of the awfully slippery first version) and the throttle looks nothing short of superb for the price.

(I still have my old trusty T.16k in its box anyway, in case one day I may find the will to tinker with its failed twist pot)

As a known SRV officiando and planetary circumnavigator I suspect I've knackered at least two by wrenching the stick around violently while learning how to control the damn thing! [hotas]

As a less known SRV officiando and planetary circumnavigator :p, I can confirm that's the hardest of trials for our poor battered control gears. :D More than once during my countless attempts at recovering from tumbles I heard some worrying cracking sound and thought "eh, good on you Aken, this time you wrecked it no doubt!". Still in one piece, still almost as good as new. I'm amazed the throttle button I assigned to boost (both ships and rover) is still working considering the abuse. I had it randomly missing inputs for a couple months some time ago and thought it was due to inevitable wearing, turned out it had to be something with my frontal USB port, plugged it to a powered hub and it never gave the issue again. Bang for bucks, an awesome toy.

Well I've stopped dithering and have ordered a Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Hotas.

Will let you know how I get on converting from the T-Flight. Thanks everyone for your input - very much appreciated and what a nice community we have!

o7

I expect you'll be a happy customer, you can't go wrong with Hall sensors and the T.16000 hardiness. ;)
 
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Well now, I have some potentially ('ho ho' pun intended) interesting news.

I had put my T-Flight HOTAS into a mode that meant that yaw could only be controlled from the rocker control on the finger-tip side of the throttle, and played (very badly!) for a couple of sessions in that mode, leaving copious amounts of paint at nearly every station I visited. Honestly it has really shocked me how often I use(d) the joystick twist function to finesse the ship into or through a tight spot!

In growing frustration after yet another close-call at a station 'slot', I grudgingly reverted to the original HOTAS mode (where both joystick twist and the throttle rocker control yaw), and prepared to live with the yaw-jitter and vagueness.

And lo and behold the yaw-jitter/vagueness has vanished. Obviously I can't be sure that the problem won't return, but this strongly suggests that some interplay between the shared throttle and joystick yaw control caused the issues, and that this may have been cleared by cleaning the throttle's yaw potentiometer (by exclusive use for an extended period).
 
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Eh, what a p(l)ot twist! :p

Wouldn't surprise me that interference from both inputs could have caused some problems, the rocker always had a weird sensibility curve anyway and even though using that as an alternate yaw control was my first idea too, I've never been able to use it that way. In the end I assigned it to analog vertical thrust, extremely useful in combat to keep tail on targets on pitching manoeuvers while at the same time keeping the right thumb free for secondary fire (instead of having to use it for hat strafing), and also to gently touch the pad on those extremely rare *ahem* no-shields, 1% hull landings.

Another thing I noticed for Hotas X users, is to keep an eye on the spring tension on the bottom as that could add a bit of jitter to any axis if kept too tight. Once I tried to make the stick a bit more stiff (akin to the T.160000) to see if it helped in fine movements precision. Not much effective, quite the opposite since I started to notice deadzone jittering after not even a week: increased the deadzone a bit to compensate but the axis remained a bit jumpy, and once again when I thought "after much abuse it's finally giving up the ghost", I remembered about the tension . Reverted it back to min tension, a lot less strain on the wrist and jittering disappeared once again.

Or maybe, Thrustmaster is secretly testing self-repairing nanotechnology on their least suspect line of products. Who knows.
 
Well now, I have some potentially ('ho ho' pun intended) interesting news.

I had put my T-Flight HOTAS into a mode that meant that yaw could only be controlled from the rocker control on the finger-tip side of the throttle, and played (very badly!) for a couple of sessions in that mode, leaving copious amounts of paint at nearly every station I visited. Honestly it has really shocked me how often I use(d) the joystick twist function to finesse the ship into or through a tight spot!

In growing frustration after yet another close-call at a station 'slot', I grudgingly reverted to the original HOTAS mode (where both joystick twist and the throttle rocker control yaw), and prepared to live with the yaw-jitter and vagueness.

And lo and behold the yaw-jitter/vagueness has vanished. Obviously I can't be sure that the problem won't return, but this strongly suggests that some interplay between the shared throttle and joystick yaw control caused the issues, and that this may have been cleared by cleaning the throttle's yaw potentiometer (by exclusive use for an extended period).

I wonder if this apparent fix is coincidental? I too have suffered from jitter and/or severly reduced range on the twist input (especially left twist for some reason) and find that sometimes when I come back to the game the next day (without changing anything) it's working perfectly again only to go back to being jittery some time later.
 
Eh, what a p(l)ot twist! :p ...maybe, Thrustmaster is secretly testing self-repairing nanotechnology on their least suspect line of products. Who knows.

The obvious and only explanation, and also pun of the day winner.

I wonder if this apparent fix is coincidental?...

Highly possible and I'm really not convinced it will last so have kept my order for the T16000 HOTAS. I'm off into the black for a bit now, so will see how it's faring. Cheers.
 
Why cannot Logitech build the X series of sticks as robust as my Xbox 360 controller I bought in 2008, which still works great?
 
Well now, after a couple of sessions T-Flight X the yaw jitter did not return, but was replaced instead by pitch jitter, and so it was with some relief that the T16000 HOTAS arrived yesterday. A part of me wonders if the problems are connected to the UK's current heatwave, but whatever the cause the result was frustrating.

I'll give the new HOTAS a few more play sessions before coming to any conclusion on it, as at the moment I am still relearning muscle memory, which is proving a little frustrating.
 
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Well now, after a couple of sessions T-Flight X the yaw jitter did not return, but was replaced instead by pitch jitter, and so it was with some relief that the T16000 HOTAS arrived yesterday. A part of me wonders if the problems are connected to the UK's current heatwave, but whatever the cause the result was frustrating.

I'll give the new HOTAS a few more play sessions before coming to any conclusion on it, as at the moment I am still relearning muscle memory, which is proving a little frustrating.

So close to caving and getting the T16000 myself ... your conclusions will probably swing it one way or the other.
 
So close to caving and getting the T16000 myself ... your conclusions will probably swing it one way or the other.

Alas Alec I don't think it's going to be a 'cut and dried' decision tbh - both have their merits and I've not really come to a conclusion yet - I will write up my notes in a day or so.
 
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Dipping in on this discussion...I've been eyeing the CH Throttle stuff for a while now, and have no problem spending $400, but I just can't commit. I hear various complaints about the sensor quality and the joystick x-y springs mechanism being hard to use. Any input?
 
Dipping in on this discussion...I've been eyeing the CH Throttle stuff for a while now, and have no problem spending $400, but I just can't commit. I hear various complaints about the sensor quality and the joystick x-y springs mechanism being hard to use. Any input?

A few years ago the CH stuff would have been the obvious choice and my default recommendation, but there is actually some competition now, so it's less clear cut.

Overall quality is very good, but the design and electronics are ancient and, if one looks at it from a pure hardware perspective, I definitely understand the argument that the CH stuff is overpriced. It probably costs 40 dollars to make the entire fighterstick + throttle + pedals kit and they sell for almost 400.

My biggest complaint with CH is that the QA is often quite hit or miss. I've had four throttles, two fighter sticks, and two sets of pedals and no one sample is like another. Default firmware calibrations, especially of the throttle (both slider and ministick) are all over the place. The ministick hardware is also not consistent quality wise, though all of my samples have been usable.

The opening for the ministick is too narrow to allow for the full range of motion, but this is a problem with almost every part with similar functionality. I bored out the hole it passes through on my second set and it vastly improved the range of motion and accuracy.

A minor problem is how light the Fighterstick is; without something to hold it down, it's very easy to move out of position.

On the plus side, the buttons/hats are of excellent quality as are the pots used. The plastic casing is also very durable. Parts are relatively easy to repair or replace if something goes wrong, and most of what is likely to go wrong are very simple fixes. After 5000+ hours of use my first set still works nearly like new after simply being dusted out and having some loose wire connections tightened up. Out of my eight products, only one of my buttons has ever had an issue and this was fixed by cleaning it. None of the pots has ever failed or become jittery due to an issue with the pots themselves...and if they do, they can be removed easily and cost five dollars to replace.

CH's software is solid. It's also ancient, but in a good way. It works well, it's powerful, and it's very lightweight.

The precision of the analog pots is only 8-bit, but when properly setup, actual precision exceeds that of many sticks with 12 to 16-bit hall sensors.

I don't have any issues with the clear distinction between the x and y axes. It felt a little awkward at first, but if anything, it helps accuracy and makes for much easier isolation of inputs.

In the end, I don't think there is anything at or below the CH price range I'd rather have for Elite: Dangerous, but I'd caution those who aren't mechanically inclined that these controls often need some tinkering to get the best performance out of. Closest competitor is the X56, but even the Logitech revisions have their share of issues. I've used the Warthog, but I don't really consider it a good alternative to CH for Elite...the stick itself is too heavy and requires too much force for prolonged combat sessions in a space sim and the lack of good analog axes for the vertical and lateral thrusters automatically makes it inferior in this regard---yes, it can also be modded to mitigate these issues, but at that point I'd rather have something even better. Stuff like the X52 isn't even in the running for me and the T-Flight HOTAS X is missing critical axes for complete control.

I'd almost certainly find a set of VKB or Vipril sticks/bases paired with MFC Crosswind pedals, or a similarly high-end setup to be superior, but that's another huge jump in price over the CH stuff.
 
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A minor problem is how light the Fighterstick is; without something to hold it down, it's very easy to move out of position.

I'm not sure if that stick has suction cups or options to mount them - but if so, spray a little hairspray on them, press down and a good wiggle, and it won't move without some considerable effort :D
 
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