Where is the paid 'content' LEP holder get for 'free'

[Obsidian Ant]

Actually as I rain on parade quite a bit, I will call this not very clear either. Recently Ed has been asked about premium content and he hasn't been very clear about is it coming in this year, just as "coming".

That should tell us a lot about the nature of Ed's answers. A part of his job has always been to control the flow of info. That means only letting people know things when Frontier want people to know things.

You will remember very similar things happened in 2015. Frontier (and David Braben specifically) said "Planetary Landings are a long way off" in March / April of 2015. Then a few months later they announced Horizons.

 

[Stigbob]

What??? That's a ridiculous thing to say. But let's run with it. What's the odds on said gamble? What is the element of 'chance' involved that qualifies it as a gamble? Because from i'm sitting there is no element of chance, FDev control the outcome. I don't really think it's an investment either..it was a product that was sold with the underlying being seasons of expansions. Fdev changed the conditions under which the product would be delivered. Whether someone chooses to accept that change or not is personal choice but it's a perfectly legitimate complaint to say that the product sold isn't the one being delivered.

It's a gamble because you don't know the outcome when you throw your money down, you are gambling on enough content being created and delivered to justify the larger initial financial outlay.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose that's gambling for you.

 

[Devari]

In which case, I suppose they've got more than enough money to provide refunds for every LEP owner, since it appears that the LEP will never be worth its asking price. I'd stretch to call it a con, but it's fairly close.

The issue here is simply how patient the LEP holders want to be with FD. There's no question that FD is doing very well financially as a company, but that has come at a steep cost in terms of neglecting Elite development. Technically FD can keep saying they're "planning on" making those features but we haven't even heard that consistently from them over the past few years. Lately it's more along the lines of "we'd like to do this, but no ETAs or guarantees" and Braben's recent interview where he claimed "our expansions have been free" has only added fuel to the fire there in terms of the complete disconnect between the promised game and the reality we have in front of us. The LEP holders can determine if they want to keep waiting for the content FD promised to develop or if they would rather stop waiting indefinitely and simply ask for refunds instead. FD could of course honor all of those refund requests, and it probably wouldn't even make much of a dent in their financials because they have pulled in so much revenue from Elite so far. The far more important issue here is that the PR fallout from that situation would be absolutely massive if they straight-up admitted they weren't able or willing to deliver the promised features, as that would have a much more significant impact on the confidence in their company among their shareholders and investors.

The best solution here is to for Braben and FD to start putting in the necessary development resources and simply get down to work and give us space legs. Until they give us at least a rudimentary version of that feature we have nothing but empty promises and delays which is not a good long-term business strategy for the Elite franchise.

 

[Luniticisi]

That should tell us a lot about the nature of Ed's answers. A part of his job has always been to control the flow of info. That means only letting people know things when Frontier want people to know things.

You will remember very similar things happened in 2015. Frontier (and David Braben specifically) said "Planetary Landings are a long way off" in March / April of 2015. Then a few months later they announced Horizons.

I think Legs are coming sooner rather than later .. but can we cook hot dogs? .. If not ... the game is dead (again)

 

[Viajero]

That should tell us a lot about the nature of Ed's answers. A part of his job has always been to control the flow of info. That means only letting people know things when Frontier want people to know things.

You will remember very similar things happened in 2015. Frontier (and David Braben specifically) said "Planetary Landings are a long way off" in March / April of 2015. Then a few months later they announced Horizons.

Possibly. Also "a long way off" is much more vague and continuous than the very specific and binary "maybe not this year".

Either way, lol, trying to nitpick statements like this is just foolish. Whatever will be will be.

 

[EUS]

LEP owners bought nothing except the right to not have to pay for any more paid content for this game.
Whether there's anymore of that coming, there was never a guarantee, but I'd venture a "yes". It's in FD's interest to generate money for crying out loud.
There's no scam, as there was no promise of deliverables on any time scale, or quantities of paid content. I remember getting absolutely nowhere asking FD to define anything wrt seasons in terms of quantities, and time lengths. One of a few reasons I never bought the LEP.
Also, just because this bugs me, there's no investment here, only expense.
Caveat emptor.

 

[Luniticisi]

Possibly. But "a long way off" is much more vague and continuous than the very specific and binary "maybe not this year".

Either way, lol, trying to nitpick statements like this is just foolish. Whatever will be will be.

How are you a Mod?

 

[StuartGT]

If you tell your landlord your rent check is coming over and over for months, you get evicted. If you tell your bank your car payment is coming over and over for months, your car gets repossessed. If you tell your boss your work is coming over and over for months, you get fired.

I have a mortgage, run my own business, and own my own car. Latter is paid for already, and my earnings easily pays for my mortgage As to the mortgage itself, when it was signed the contract stipulated precise timeframes for regular payment deliverables, whereas the Lifetime Expansion Pass did not.

I bought the LTXP (LEP is Lancashire Evening Post to me haha) because precise timeframes of expansion deliverables wasn't an issue for me.

I'm happy knowing that FDev are working on the expansions, and creating other very-profitable games to finance all the company's projects while expanding the Cobra engines tech for use in Elite. It's sensible business: don't put all your eggs in one basket.

The best scams give the victim just a little back. This can convince some that it's not a scam, and will draw new victims. ISK doubling scams are common in EVE, they give some people a small amount back, which convinces them go try again with more, then they don't get any back.

The Lifetime Expansion Pass would only be a scam if FDev weren't working on expansions for delivery to us, but that theory has already been debunked. All you are actually missing are specific details as to what those expansions will contain and when they will arrive, although we do know Premium Content is arriving this year and announcements are reserved for major conventions.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

That should tell us a lot about the nature of Ed's answers. A part of his job has always been to control the flow of info. That means only letting people know things when Frontier want people to know things.

You will remember very similar things happened in 2015. Frontier (and David Braben specifically) said "Planetary Landings are a long way off" in March / April of 2015. Then a few months later they announced Horizons.

Yes, I remember.

Just it feels Frontier Expo won't be this year. They would have more convincing answer by now if they would started planning it.

 

[Devari]

It's a gamble because you don't know the outcome when you throw your money down, you are gambling on enough content being created and delivered to justify the larger initial financial outlay.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose that's gambling for you.

Gambling is based on an element of chance determined from a random outcome, i.e., a roll of the dice, the cards you're dealt, a coin toss and so on. There are no random elements responsible for determining whether FD makes space legs or not. Braben and FD are determining whether FD makes space legs or not. It is 100% within their control to allocate the resources needed to develop that feature, there is no random element determining if space legs can be made or whether FD give the Elite dev team sufficient resources to develop the feature.

 

[Viajero]

Yes, I remember.

Just it feels Frontier Expo won't be this year. They would have more convincing answer by now if they would started planning it.

Yeah, with Bo´s comments about PAX and Twitchcon, running all the way to end of October there is not much room for an Expo left to be honest. If you add to that the "maybe not this year" from Ed, then I think a pattern starts to emerge. Would love to be wrong though.

 

[StuartGT]

Yes, I remember.

Just it feels Frontier Expo won't be this year. They would have more convincing answer by now if they would started planning it.

Why? Last year they only stated "upcoming special event" a few times prior to the Expo's official announcement late-July. We're only in the first week of July.

 

[Stigbob]

I do not recall any statement by FDEV about LPE content linked to any 10 year plan.

FDEV famous 10 year plan mentioned verbally at a Lavecom some time ago is probably no different from the standard long term horizon planning companies (any company) with long cycle times (multi year or so) tends to develop for scope and funding forecast purposes, nothing more nothing less. They are typically updated dynamically as the company goes.

Yep the ten year plan we've obviously both heard of is the one I'm talking about.

The point I'm making is when development ceases at the conclusion of the games "lifetime" players will know if they got their money's worth as regards an LEP, prior to that happening it's too early to call either way. I seem to remember from one of the documents StuartGT posted there's a few years left to run. But I'm easy about potential extra video game stuff expect plans to change and regard projected dates as estimates so I couldn't give you specifics.

Having said that, the games actual lifetime will be as long as it's financially viable plan or no plan shorter or longer than expected.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

What??? That's a ridiculous thing to say. But let's run with it. What's the odds on said gamble? What is the element of 'chance' involved that qualifies it as a gamble? Because from i'm sitting there is no element of chance, FDev control the outcome. I don't really think it's an investment either..it was a product that was sold with the underlying being seasons of expansions. Fdev changed the conditions under which the product would be delivered. Whether someone chooses to accept that change or not is personal choice but it's a perfectly legitimate complaint to say that the product sold isn't the one being delivered.

Emmmm, no.

1) FD really did not attach any conditions to LEP, it is covering all paid for DLCs (except cosmetics) and that's really it. Format really does not come into play and it would be stupid if it would;
2) FD hasn't changed any conditions under which product will be delivered. They are still intend to release paid for DLCs for ED and they will be covered by LEP;
3) Complaining is ok, calling LEP a scam and FD crooks because you don't like delivery schedule is not;

Being disappointed that new paid for DLC is coming more slowly that we want is one thing - I am personally disappointed but I agree that it is what it is. I never regret supporting FD, but I wish they had more throughput for new features (I guess we all do). But I never imagined call them scams or what not. Because that's loaded term meant for really worse people in the world, not overoptimistic developers.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Why? Last year they only stated "upcoming special event" a few times prior to the Expo's official announcement late-July. We're only in the first week of July.

Annoucing it and actually planning it are two different things. It seems FD is not very hot on doing it this year and it is already July. They might re-think it - hey, I *wish* they rethink it, FX 2017 was a blast, despite me not being able to make it this year - but time is like one or two weeks to decide. And by body language of Ed and David's answer, my money is on them really not being able to justify money spent to do this year. We as ED fans will disagree of course because we think FX would be worth ED title alone, but shareholders might not think same way.

 

[StuartGT]

Yeah, with Bo´s comments about PAX and Twitchcon running all the way to October there is not much room for an Expo left to be honest. If you add to that the "maybe not this year" from Ed, then I think a pattern starts to emerge. Would love to be wrong though.

Frontier also attended both TwitchCon and Pax East last year, yet still found room to fit in the Expo. There is an 8 week gap between those two American conventions.

 

[Eymerich]

LEP owners bought nothing except the right to not have to pay for any more paid content for this game.
Whether there's anymore of that coming, there was never a guarantee, but I'd venture a "yes". It's in FD's interest to generate money for crying out loud.
There's no scam, as there was no promise of deliverables on any time scale, or quantities of paid content. I remember getting absolutely nowhere asking FD to define anything wrt seasons in terms of quantities, and time lengths. One of a few reasons I never bought the LEP.
Also, just because this bugs me, there's no investment here, only expense.
Caveat emptor.

Unfortunatly, this is internet so everyone can say what he thinks.

Which is nice but this come at a price: spreading wrong statement.

What Lep did were purchase a product (guess what? a Lep, in fact) after - after underlined 10 times ! - David Braben stated that there would be expansion as seasons.

At that time no one of us, neither fd, neither Braben questioned about the time because, if you are a customer in good faith, a season is… a season (make strange to me I have do write this): which means that one season year was reasonable.

At that time, not by chance, Fd shows the first video of an srv being deployer by a cobra which were Landing on an airless planet.

This in summer 2015.

After almost 10 months, and the first delay of 2.1. (planned in march or april) of horizon, Braben said on an interview something like this (don't remember the exact words but the message was more or like this: who said a season is one year?

In the same interview or near in that time braben said the winter is coming: we all know how it went…)

Now, this was very unfair because, if ever, if that was the plan you should warn your customer before selling a product, not after. Not going to comment such behaviour anymore but was enough to me to close my wallet to Fd.

After 2 years Horizon was completed in the state it was (read: multicrew Seriously how can you trust a company which says: okay we release a garbage tool cause we haven't time/resource to improve it) and as it is now: something good, something meh, something bad.

Then, after stealing the money of the people which had faith in Fd, they have released an expansion? free to everyone and, except gas giants which will come to lep at the end of the year, there is a complete silence.

So, no: honest people which work hard for their money and gived in good faith to Fd have been, basically, cheated.

It's legal, okay all that you want: but still one thing it's a legal behaviour, one other, and much different, it's an ethic behaviour.

The first one, usually, has life short in a marketing system

 

[Viajero]

Frontier also attended both TwitchCon and Pax East last year, yet still found room to fit in the Expo. There is an 8 week gap between those two American conventions.

I hear you! Hope you are right. Not convinced yet though.

 

[Quester91]

Here's something interesting:

Wait, wait, where does that come from?

 

[StuartGT]

Annoucing it and actually planning it are two different things. It seems FD is not very hot on doing it this year and it is already July. They might re-think it - hey, I *wish* they rethink it, FX 2017 was a blast, despite me not being able to make it this year - but time is like one or two weeks to decide. And by body language of Ed and David's answer, my money is on them really not being able to justify money spent to do this year. We as ED fans will disagree of course because we think FX would be worth ED title alone, but shareholders might not think same way.

Last year's FX began being planned months before its announcement late July.

I saw David and Ed's comments as diplomatically deflecting the topic until its official announcement. They know word-slips can occur, so its natural to feel uncomfortable when needing to keep something secret yet wanting to politely respond.