Where is the paid 'content' LEP holder get for 'free'

[Roybe]

We can do basic math though, can't we? LEP owners have gotten $45 of value out of a $180 purchase so far and the soonest we will see more paid content is the end of 2018. That means they will have only seen 1/4 of their LEP value during the first 4 years of development. Do you expect those LEP owners to wait a total of 10-16 years to break even? I doubt Elite will even be actively developed another 3-4 years from now.

So the game is still running and more content is promise...as I have said twice...you bought a pig in a poke...live with your decision.

And yes...I expect them to wait until the devs create enough paid content to feel they recieved the value they paid for. No one can help the pace the game develops. No one can predict the longevity of the game...hindsight for you IS 20/20 isn't it?


And one more side note, since the LEP owners are no longer really paying for updates...what makes you think the devs are even listening to your whining? You are no longer paying customers...you were unprotected investors...again...caveat emptor!

 

[LeoBartlet]

Incorrect. Do the math yourself here. Horizons was a $45 expansion, the LEP was $180. That means we need at least 4X standalone expansions equivalent to Horizons in order for the LEP to simply break even. That is not subjective at all, it is basic math.

DID the LEP terms explicitly state that there would be at least 4 expansions?

Also did the kickstarters get the LEP pass because they paid various amounts. Also the LEP was as low as 40 quid at one point during beta.

Edit: Just checked the kickstarter and those who paid 80+ quid got the game and all future expansions.

Kinda muddies the waters that

Mathematics is an objective field where anyone can get the same answer using the same methods.

Quite but I do believe that they said future content would be free to LEP owners which to me sounds like it could be content other than just expansions like legs and atmo. We cant put a value on that content until we know what it is and how much non LEP will have to pay.

So saying 180/4 gives you 45 might be factually correct but it fails to take into account other non expansion content that will also be free to LEP owners.

Obsidian Ant already posted this earlier in the thread. They described the content (space legs, boarding actions and landings on inhabited worlds) and described that there would be regular updates. "Regular" does not mean only one expansion being delivered in 4 years.

But there has been regular updates to the game and that content is free for the LEP holders and those who bought horizons not to mention those with just the base game.

Yay free content for all!!!

 

[Devari]

Well, then play those games.

I have been, but recently the Krait has lured me back to Elite for the moment. That should last several months. Then I will probably need some more actual content to keep from losing interest again.

 

[DeathStroke]

Quite but I do believe that they said future content would be free to LEP owners which to me sounds like it could be content other than just expansions like legs and atmo.

No, that's wrong. There's several threads excusing FD for not providing LEP holders content beyond expansions. Ship kits and paint are content, LEP holders have to pay for those like everyone else, no there's no discount either.

 

[Devari]

DID the LEP terms explicitly state that there would be at least 4 expansions?

Why would they sell it for $180 USD otherwise when Horizons was selling for $45 USD? Do you think that customers would expect to pay MORE money buying something as a pre-order years before the content was going to be delivered?

Also did the kickstarters get the LEP pass because they paid various amounts. Also the LEP was as low as 40 quid at one point during beta.

Edit: Just checked the kickstarter and those who paid 80+ quid got the game and all future expansions.

The kickstarter and beta packages were not commercially available as retail products since they were made prior the game actually launching. The price was considerably cheaper to buy in at that stage of development, which is quite common for kickstarters. The kickstarter purchases in particular would have entailed a MUCH higher risk of the game not being produced, without any of the regular customer protection rights you would have buying something at retail.

Kinda muddies the waters that

Only if you don't understand the difference between a kickstarter/beta purchase before the game launched and a LEP purchase in 2015 after the game was selling as a retail product. I am comparing the retail cost of the LEP with the retail cost of Horizons when both were commercially available in 2015.

Quite but I do believe that they said future content would be free to LEP owners which to me sounds like it could be content other than just expansions like legs and atmo. We cant put a value on that content until we know what it is and how much non LEP will have to pay.

They could offer it in various ways, either as separate paid DLC or full expansions, but either way they have to actually develop it. They are also running out of time to deliver that content, aren't they?

So saying 180/4 gives you 45 might be factually correct but it fails to take into account other non expansion content that will also be free to LEP owners.

Either way they have to come up with another $135 of paid content and we know that everything we got in Horizons is collectively worth $45. That sets a very clear expectation for the value of what the LEP owners were buying at the time they purchased it in 2015.

But there has been regular updates to the game and that content is free for the LEP holders and those who bought horizons not to mention those with just the base game.

Yay free content for all!!!

That is clearly not what the LEP was referring to. They made a very clear distinction that the regular, small "free" updates weren't what you were buying with the LEP. It was the future paid content expansions that you were buying when you purchased the LEP.

 

[LeoBartlet]

No, that's wrong. There's several threads excusing FD for not providing LEP holders content beyond expansions. Ship kits and paint are content, LEP holders have to pay for those like everyone else, no there's no discount either.

Im sure it was said by frontier community managers that there would be free content this year for LEP owners so unless its an expansion like legs or whatever then really it shouldn't be free for the LEP's if it doesnt fall into the apparently strict expansion territory.

But given they've also released the road map for the game for the year then we can assume if they stick to that it wont be an expansion.

 

[Roybe]

Im sure it was said by frontier community managers that there would be free content this year for LEP owners so unless its an expansion like legs or whatever then really it shouldn't be free for the LEP's if it doesnt fall into the apparently strict expansion territory.

But given they've also released the road map for the game for the year then we can assume if they stick to that it wont be an expansion.

What do the LEP owners care? It's free to them...everyone else will have to pay.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I have been, but recently the Krait has lured me back to Elite for the moment. That should last several months. Then I will probably need some more actual content to keep from losing interest again.

Guess who's the donkey and who putted the carrot there?

If you truly do not agree with what FD are doing (which I don't, CQC, PP and multicrew speak for themselves) don't give them money. I haven't bought a single cosmetic and I'm glad on my decision.

 

[Devari]

Guess who's the donkey and who putted the carrot there?

If you truly do not agree with what FD are doing (which I don't, CQC, PP and multicrew speak for themselves) don't give them money. I haven't bought a single cosmetic and I'm glad on my decision.

I genuinely feel that FD has done an excellent job with the Krait and have purchased around $12.50 USD of engine colors and nameplates for my ship. I have no problem making that purchase because I think that high-quality gaming content should be rewarded.

The issue of the LEP is completely separate and since I never bought an LEP I am in a situation where I will make an individual decision on future expansions that FD offers. In that regard I am currently waiting to see how Q4 of Beyond turns out. If Squadrons are just another ridiculous grindfest and it isn't possible for me to create a small Squadron that has access to a carrier (even a small one) then I am unlikely to pay for a future paid expansion. It's up to FD to decide how they want to develop the game, and it's up to customers to decide if they want to buy it.

More content like the Krait = more money for FD.
More content like multicrew = no more money for FD.

I am sure that they are making this connection themselves given the responses that the Krait has gotten so far since 3.1 launched.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Why would they sell it for $180 USD otherwise when Horizons was selling for $45 USD? Do you think that customers would expect to pay MORE money buying something as a pre-order years before the content was going to be delivered?



The kickstarter and beta packages were not commercially available as retail products since they were made prior the game actually launching. The price was considerably cheaper to buy in at that stage of development, which is quite common for kickstarters. The kickstarter purchases in particular would have entailed a MUCH higher risk of the game not being produced, without any of the regular customer protection rights you would have buying something at retail.



Only if you don't understand the difference between a kickstarter/beta purchase before the game launched and a LEP purchase in 2015 after the game was selling as a retail product. I am comparing the retail cost of the LEP with the retail cost of Horizons when both were commercially available in 2015.



They could offer it in various ways, either as separate paid DLC or full expansions, but either way they have to actually develop it. They are also running out of time to deliver that content, aren't they?



Either way they have to come up with another $135 of paid content and we know that everything we got in Horizons is collectively worth $45. That sets a very clear expectation for the value of what the LEP owners were buying at the time they purchased it in 2015.

So essentially you're taking the maximum value that it was sold at 180 and dividing that by 4 to come up with 4 expansions.

Leaving kickstarter out of the equation (even though Frontier are bound by certain conditions from them also) they still sold the expansion pass as low as 40 quid on their store during beta. It's frankly irrelevant if it was during beta because even at that time they could all but guarantee that they would release the game from beta to live which they did ofc.

Frankly Frontier could fudge the whole thing by stating they value the content thus far at 180 quid but those who paid 40 for the LEP and whatever everyone else paid got it at a steep discount.

They wont ofc because they're still fracking developing the game and people will just have to wait for the content.

Im done with this now, i'm off to get my 500 credits in SW BF2

Toodles.

 

[Devari]

So essentially you're taking the maximum value that it was sold at 180 and dividing that by 4 to come up with 4 expansions.

Leaving kickstarter out of the equation (even though Frontier are bound by certain conditions from them also) they still sold the expansion pass as low as 40 quid on their store during beta. It's frankly irrelevant if it was during beta because even at that time they could all but guarantee that they would release the game from beta to live which they did ofc.

You can't compare beta or kickstarter prices to the full price of a retail product. That makes zero sense. You need to compare the 2015 LEP prices with the 2015 cost of Horizons. That is the only comparison that makes any sense here.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I genuinely feel that FD has done an excellent job with the Krait and have purchased around $12.50 USD of engine colors and nameplates for my ship. I have no problem making that purchase because I think that high-quality gaming content should be rewarded.

The issue of the LEP is completely separate and since I never bought an LEP I am in a situation where I will make an individual decision on future expansions that FD offers. In that regard I am currently waiting to see how Q4 of Beyond turns out. If Squadrons are just another ridiculous grindfest and it isn't possible for me to create a small Squadron that has access to a carrier (even a small one) then I am unlikely to pay for a future paid expansion. It's up to FD to decide how they want to develop the game, and it's up to customers to decide if they want to buy it.

More content like the Krait = more money for FD.
More content like multicrew = no more money for FD.

I am sure that they are making this connection themselves given the responses that the Krait has gotten so far since 3.1 launched.

You said it yourself, a new ship will amuse you for so long but nevertheless, do as you will but don't come complaining on the actions on FD, after all, if the money keeps flowing, FD won't have any compromises to do.

 

[Devari]

You said it yourself, a new ship will amuse you for so long but nevertheless, do as you will but don't come complaining on the actions on FD, after all, if the money keeps flowing, FD won't have any compromises to do.

Well $12.50 is hardly a new $45 expansion and certainly isn't a $180 LEP. If FD wants to start selling full paid content DLC again they are going to have to up their game quite a bit. I suppose I could completely stop spending money and time on the game but I would rather see FD change their behavior using positive reinforcement (i.e., good content = more money and positive threads in the forums) rather than relying entirely on negative reinforcement (i.e., poor content = no more money and complaints in the forums).

 

[LeoBartlet]

You can't compare beta or kickstarter prices to the full price of a retail product. That makes zero sense. You need to compare the 2015 LEP prices with the 2015 cost of Horizons. That is the only comparison that makes any sense here.

Oh Jesus this guy.

It was a retail product available on their fracking store, You could buy the game/download then play the game all the beta told you was that "hey this game isnt 100% done" so remember that.

Even then you were bound by the same terms and conditions and more importantly consumer rights.

Really im done now.

 

[Devari]

Oh Jesus this guy.

It was a retail product available on their fracking store, You could buy the game/download then play the game all the beta told you was that "hey this game isnt 100% done" so remember that.

How can you not understand that comparing a dramatically discounted LEP price during the kickstarter or beta cannot be compared to the $180 LEP cost in 2015. Sorry but it's not complicated at all here. They valued the LEP at $180 in 2015 and have yet to deliver more than $45 of paid content with Horizons so far.

Even then you were bound by the same terms and conditions and more importantly consumer rights.

No you really weren't. Kickstarters were dramatically different in terms of what you were purchasing. Everyone knows that, I'm amazed you don't understand how a kickstarter works.

 

[LeoBartlet]

How can you not understand that comparing a dramatically discounted LEP price during the kickstarter or beta cannot be compared to the $180 LEP cost in 2015. Sorry but it's not complicated at all here. They valued the LEP at $180 in 2015 and have yet to deliver more than $45 of paid content with Horizons so far.



No you really weren't. Kickstarters were dramatically different in terms of what you were purchasing. Everyone knows that, I'm amazed you don't understand how a kickstarter workds.

Edit: I was talking about the 40 quid LEP they sold on their website not Kickstarter.

 

[Devari]

Sorry but a low-quality meme doesn't excuse your inability to do basic math here.

I give you 0/10 for not even using an amusing or relevant meme.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Well $12.50 is hardly a new $45 expansion and certainly isn't a $180 LEP. If FD wants to start selling full paid content DLC again they are going to have to up their game quite a bit. I suppose I could completely stop spending money and time on the game but I would rather see FD change their behavior using positive reinforcement (i.e., good content = more money and positive threads in the forums) rather than relying entirely on negative reinforcement (i.e., poor content = no more money and complaints in the forums).

Why would they even care to offer a new expansion if people give them double the money on useless cosmetics? You already told us how you spent 170$ on cosmetics and watching the ships of my peers tells me you aren't alone on this.

 

[Viajero]

These forums are literally the only place where someone will try to tell you that taking twice as long to deliver an expansion as planned somehow adds "value" to it.

Can you please link when the planned time for Horizons was announced?

 

[Whitehair]

@ Devari.

I see that you are accusing other posters of not understanding your point(s). Again.

I just wondered if you need someone to explain the meaning of 'Lifetime' to you? Seeing as you don't seem to understand that word.