Where is the paid 'content' LEP holder get for 'free'

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Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
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Just to Clarify a couple of things.

1) Lifetime Expansion info from FD at point of Kickstarter.

Really big expansions are likely to be paid for while we also intend for some smaller free updates. If you have pledged to to £80 tier or above you will receive all expansions for free.

As far as I'm aware that hasn't changed since.

2) Falcon posted this a while back.


  • [*=1]I'm a Lifetime Expansion Pass holder, do I get access to Elite Dangerous: Horizons?
Absolutely. You're entitled to every expansion we release for Elite: Dangerous!



  • [*=1]Do I also get to try the beta of Elite Dangerous: Horizons?
Yes. The Lifetime Expansion Pass also grants access to the beta of the Elite Dangerous: Horizons expansion season when it opens on November 24th.



  • [*=1]I didn't pick up the Lifetime Expansion Pass during the Kickstarter, is it available again?
The Lifetime Expansion Pass was removed from the Store on September 14th 2015. We may make it available again in the future, but have no plans to do so at this time.


Support-Falcon

Again as far as I'm aware this hasn't changed.



3) The most recent post from FD was this one by Zac.

Hey Astral! This is a very reasonable and understandable post. Hopefully I can put your mind at ease a little.

In addition to all the content talked about at Frontier Expo, we also have some pretty cool things in the works which will be available to purchase. We're not ready to talk about them just yet so we can't give you any details but rest assured that the lifetime expansion pass owners will be looked after and will be getting their hands on premium content as part of their lifetime expansion pass before the end of 2018 and the Beyond series of updates.

I hope that helps,


Zac

The game is still being actively worked on and additional content being produced. We are currently partway through the Beyond updates and as such no-one outside FD knows what the next expansion/season call it what you will payment structure and how it affects the LEP holders, anything else is pure speculation and conjecture.

Until FD releases information on the next series of "expansions" etc and spells out how the customer base will receive it, I can't see why people are getting their knickers in a twist.

Wait and see.
 
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Serious question here .. When the LEP was sold for $180 - if you just brought that did you get ED and Horizons with it?

At that time the LEP was sold for $180 USD in 2015 it did not include the base game, which was an additional $60 USD. You can clearly see this on the sales pages where it was stated that the LEP required a copy of the Elite base game in order to run. That means someone who purchased the LEP in 2015 would have paid a total of $240 towards Elite content and will have only received only $105 worth of paid content by the end of 2018, i.e., $60 base game plus $45 for Horizons. You can clearly determine here that FD has to either develop another $135 worth of paid content, which is equivalent to three Horizons expansions, in order to make up that difference. There is supposed to be some sort of paid content released at the end of 2018 but they still have three Horizons-equivalent expansions worth of content to deliver, including space legs, boarding actions and landing on inhabited planets as per the original LEP description.
 
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Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
At that time it was sold for $180 USD and did not include the base game, which was an additional $60. You can clearly see this on the sales pages where it was stated that the LEP required a copy of the Elite base game in order to run. That means someone who purchased the LEP in 2015 would have paid a total of $240 towards Elite content and has only received only $105 worth of paid content as of the end of 2018, i.e., $60 base game plus $45 for Horizons. You can clearly determine here that FD has to either develop another $135 worth of paid content, which is equivalent to three Horizons expansions, in order to make up that difference.

And until development of ED stops or Frontier make an announcement on either you have no idea what's going to happen.
 
At that time it was sold for $180 USD and did not include the base game, which was an additional $60. You can clearly see this on the sales pages where it was stated that the LEP required a copy of the Elite base game in order to function. That means someone who purchased the LEP in 2015 would have paid a total of $240 towards Elite content and has only received only $105 worth of content as of the end of 2018, i.e., $60 base game plus $45 for Horizons. You can clearly determine here that FD has to either develop another $135 worth of paid content, which is equivalent to three Horizons expansions, in order to make up that difference.

Cheers, While I don't agree with you that FD HAS to provide another $135 worth of expansions, seeing as the value of the LEP doen't have to match the value of the updates. That was never said anywhere. Considering the LEP was also valued at £35 at some points shows that.

Also if FD do decide that they want to match the value of the $180 LEP all they have to do is release the two updates we are expecting (Legs/Atmos), value them at $67.50 on release, then a week later reduce the price. (not that I think that FD would do such a thing)

Look the issue here is 'where is the content' - best answer we have is 'It's coming' .. not once have we heard anything to the contrary... not once. But we have heard multiple times 'It's coming'.
 
Until FD releases information on the next series of "expansions" etc and spells out how the customer base will receive it, I can't see why people are getting their knickers in a twist.

Wait and see.

Honestly, do you not see why LEP owners might possibly have their "knickers in a twist" over the issue? We have over 50 pages of discussion in this thread alone and many other threads have been created on the topic over the past several months. The main issue would be the quality and amount of paid content that has been delivered so far. It is difficult looking at the development history over the past 3.5 years to understand how FD will possibly make up the difference in delivering adequate paid content over the next several years during the expected development lifetime of the game. FD has yet to provide any details to address this beyond a vague statement about being "looked after" which as you can imagine may not be considered a satisfactory response at this point.

I don't even have an LEP and I can understand why this is an important issue for FD to address in detail to their customers.
 
If FD has been working hard on space legs, boarding actions and inhabited worlds this entire time, and have some significant progress to show us by late 2018/early 2019? Then I'm fine with that. I seriously doubt it's the case though, considering the low-quality and delays we've seen with Horizons content, the underwhelming Thargoid "content" and the quality of what we've gotten so far from Beyond. I really have trouble believing that with what we've seen from FD so far that Elite is being adequately developed.

I didn't say they were working hard on these things this entire time. In fact, I said that it wasn't their main focus. Beyond is currently their main focus right now, but IMO there is sufficient evidence that they've had some people working on the foundation technologies required to support these features once they're ready to go into full production. No matter how I may question certain aspects of the game's design, Frontier doesn't seem to be putting the cart before the horse.

As for why they haven't show what the current state of these features are? Given how every single word out of Frontier's proverbial mouth tends to get treated as a legal contract by some members of this community, I really can't blame them for keeping their cards close to their chest, rather than laying them on the table for all to see.

My issue goes far deeper than whether Elite has the proper architecture to support adequate player interactions, which is something that FD can't really "fix" at this stage. My issue here is that FD doesn't seem to properly understand their own game or rely on the community to provide useful feedback. They seem to "know" how they "want" the game to be played and this often has no relation to how the game is currently played or even how it has been designed to operate. The issue with the C&P rework wasn't just that it was misguided and ineffective, it was based on an understanding of the game that was fundamentally disconnected from the experiences described by players on these forums. Much like when FD arbitrarily decided to nerf gimbals, only to find that was utterly misguided due to the implications of the flight model and combat system the game has had since launch. FD quite honestly does not seem to understand their own game much of the time and that is a problem when trying to actually improve core gameplay features.

My take's a bit different from yours. Frontier has repeatedly said they're designing the game they want to play, but I get the overall impression that the game they want to play would be considered far too niche for a broad player base. So they dial things back after feedback. It certainly doesn't help that the project's lead was moved to another game a year ago. From my point of view, Sandro's priorities seem to be very different from Michael's, and this has given the game a bit of a split personality, IMO.

I would suggest here, as I have in other threads, that FD is certainly capable of producing good content for Elite when adequately supported with the resources they need, but these resources have not been provided during much of Elite's development due to FD's focus on other products. As a result I'm far more critical of the underlying reasons for why Elite isn't being properly developed than I am about FD's ability to make a good game, although admittedly I am not impressed by the way they have been using what limited resources they do have available, i.e., the Engineering rework and C&P rework in beyond were unnecessarily complicated and in many ways created more new problems than they "solved".

Again, my take is a bit different than yours. I've been working for two years, trying to put together an inventory team for my store that functions well. Having the right number of people is almost as important as having the right people. As bizarre as it sounds, having a larger team, even if they're all brilliant workers, doesn't always translate to getting more work done. Work gets done twice by accident, people either get in each others way or fail to support each other sufficiently, productivity inevitably drops, and of course little old me gets spread thinner. And this is retail work!

As I understand it, software and game development has this effect even worse. Simply throwing money (and warm bodies) at a problem doesn't make things go faster, but instead slows things down and wastes money. No matter what we may think of how Frontier uses the resources they have available, David Braben has certainly demonstrated that he heads up a successful game development and publishing company, which knows how to bring successful games to market. As such, I suspect that the development team for Elite: Dangerous is the size it needs to be, which gives the company the most bang for its buck.
 

Sir.Tj

The Moderator who shall not be Blamed....
Volunteer Moderator
Honestly, do you not see why LEP owners might possibly have their "knickers in a twist" over the issue? We have over 50 pages of discussion in this thread alone and many other threads have been created on the topic over the past several months. The main issue would be the quality and amount of paid content that has been delivered so far. It is difficult looking at the development history over the past 3.5 years to understand how FD will possibly make up the difference in delivering adequate paid content over the next several years during the expected development lifetime of the game. FD has yet to provide any details to address this beyond a vague statement about being "looked after" which as you can imagine may not be considered a satisfactory response at this point.

I don't even have an LEP and I can understand why this is an important issue for FD to address in detail to their customers.

Not really, I'm a LEP owner from KS day 1 and I've had more than my monies worth out of the game, but as I said until FD make an announcment it's all speculation and not worth getting stressed about until they do.

I've known them for a long time and yes they get things wrong at times but they're not in the business of shafting their customers.
 
Cheers, While I don't agree with you that FD HAS to provide another $135 worth of expansions, seeing as the value of the LEP doen't have to match the value of the updates. That was never said anywhere. Considering the LEP was also valued at £35 at some points shows that.

Also if FD do decide that they want to match the value of the $180 LEP all they have to do is release the two updates we are expecting (Legs/Atmos), value them at $67.50 on release, then a week later reduce the price. (not that I think that FD would do such a thing)

Look the issue here is 'where is the content' - best answer we have is 'It's coming' .. not once have we heard anything to the contrary... not once. But we have heard multiple times 'It's coming'.

You do realize that if FD actually did this, executives at EA would be laughing hysterically about how in comparison, they really don't look that bad any more?

I mean sure, a company can deliberately decide to self-destruct their own business model, but that would be the worst possible decision for both the Elite franchise and for FD as a company.
 
Look the issue here is 'where is the content' - best answer we have is 'It's coming' .. not once have we heard anything to the contrary... not once. But we have heard multiple times 'It's coming'.

Professional Companies have a roadmap which they present to their customers. So they know what and when is coming.

I understood we have a season per year. But somehow after Horizons there came nothing.

Again, from a business perspective, it would be beneficial for FDEV to present a roadmap to the customers. Not only for the sake of the LEP-holders (like me), but also to get players excited and paying for upcoming expansions. Otherwise, the game would eventually stop to earn money.
 
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Not really, I'm a LEP owner from KS day 1 and I've had more than my monies worth out of the game, but as I said until FD make an announcment it's all speculation and not worth getting stressed about until they do.

I've known them for a long time and yes they get things wrong at times but they're not in the business of shafting their customers.

That's not really the question here. Whether you bought a much cheaper, discounted LEP that has already provided adequate value, or whether you personally trust FD to somehow make everything right, that is still not an adequate customer relations response for this sort of issue. "Trust FD" isn't a great answer at this point after we've seen a planned year of Horizons content delayed over 2 years, with missing features and other problems, and have no concrete details about what to expect for paid content going forward. FD absolutely has to address that issue at some point and waiting until the end of 2018 to do so isn't exactly encouraging.
 
You do realize that if FD actually did this, executives at EA would be laughing hysterically about how in comparison, they really don't look that bad any more?

I mean sure, a company can deliberately decide to self-destruct their own business model, but that would be the worst possible decision for both the Elite franchise and for FD as a company.

As I said, I don't think FD would do that, but they also don't have to match the value of the LEP.

My view here is that FD aren't saying anything yet because creating a big fuss now for, lets say, Space legs would be counter-productive, not for us CMDRs that are waiting on new stuff, but for the people FD want to sell new copies of the game to - the general gamer.

By the time the expansion comes out a lot of the hype would have died off. It's far better to have short'ish (say a couple of months) announcement to release, than announcing it 6-7 months early. all the hype would start at the announcement and fade over time.
 
So they are damned if they do say they are and they are damned if they don't regardless of whether they are going to deliver or not.

Can you guys actually hear yourselves. This forum is turning into a nut house.

Turning into a nut house? I'm fairly sure this forum took the exit to Arkham years ago. The only question is whether it leads to DC's or Lovecraft's. :D
 
Professional Companies have a roadmap which they present to their customers. So they know what and when is coming.

I understood we have a season per year. But somehow after Horizons there came nothing.

Again, from a business perspective, it would be beneficial for FDEV to present a roadmap to the customers. Not only for the sake of the LEP-holders (like me), but also to get players excited and paying for upcoming expansions. Otherwise, the game would eventually stop to earn money.

Well FD has been mum about expansions and money keeps rolling in so I will guess that's not actually true.

Also companies act differently from each other - not everyone has roadmap, not every game pass sold has clear definition what it contains. Again, it depends on situation. It is quite clear FD thinks it is good business to keep cards close to their chest as long as they can and publish things when they are ready. Hype culture is really something very speculative and it can bring you tons of sales and it can burn you. FD got burned. So they are back to thials.
 
If I remember rightly Ed and Zac on a stream confirmed premium content for LEP in 2018 and downright stated it would not be pay to win.

As Horizons is downright defo not pay to win either.....
 
Not really, I'm a LEP owner from KS day 1 and I've had more than my monies worth out of the game, but as I said until FD make an announcment it's all speculation and not worth getting stressed about until they do.

I've known them for a long time and yes they get things wrong at times but they're not in the business of shafting their customers.

This /thread
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
It is difficult looking at the development history over the past 3.5 years to understand how FD will possibly make up the difference in delivering adequate paid content over the next several years during the expected development lifetime of the game.

Define adequate.

Professional Companies have a roadmap which they present to their customers. So they know what and when is coming.

Not if they're sensible they don't, because when they inevitably miss the deadlines they set in stone to the public, they get torn apart.

I understood we have a season per year. But somehow after Horizons there came nothing.

No one at Frontier ever said a season per year. It's yet another case of people jumping to conclusions and then getting angry when FD don't follow their own personal definitions.

it would be beneficial for FDEV to present a roadmap to the customers.

They did. They have twice in fact, at least the Beyond one seems to be keeping more on track than the Horizons one :D
 
If I remember rightly Ed and Zac on a stream confirmed premium content for LEP in 2018 and downright stated it would not be pay to win.

As Horizons is downright defo not pay to win either.....

At the same time, the $40 USD I paid for a second multicrew account is giving me some very tangible in-game benefits, i.e., additional power pip and rebuy discount. This was very specifically addressed by Sandro where he stated that is entirely permitted use for a second account even if it provides significant in-game benefits. That is not technically pay to win, because I am not literally buying an in-game advantage that applies to my main account, but it's definitely setting a precedent for heading directly into pay to win territory. I would not be at all surprized if future paid content works in a similar manner of being "not technically pay to win but gives you a clear and significant in-game advantage".
 
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