Where is the paid 'content' LEP holder get for 'free'

[Sylveria]

Maybe that's why they haven't said anything yet?

Given Frontier's lack of communication or historical ambiguity- it's not clear either way, unfortunately.

They'd be better served by improving their track record.

 

[Devari]

Damn. I forgot to say that I would not be giving everyone in the world a million dollars. Does that make me liable?


(P.S. I will not be giving everyone in the world a million dollars)

If you paid $180 for a LEP and you got ED (priced at $60 at launch) and then got Horizons (priced at $60 at launch) then if you get another update priced at $60 you will have had your money's worth. What makes anyone think there will never be such an update? I'm pretty sure there will be at least one and probably more.

Except that Horizons was actually sold for $45 USD in 2015, not $60 USD because of the automatic "discount" applied for anyone who owns the base game. FD can't get around the issue of needing to deliver adequate LEP value simply by pricing the next expansion at $135 simply to claim that LEP owners got proper "value". No one would trust FD if they tried something that utterly dishonest.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

IIRC, didn't the 2017 annual report, linked to in this thread, state that the expected lifespan of ED was another 4.5 years?

*seaches*

Found it (page 45):

That's just to appease shareholders. I am sure if it is still going strong they will continue to develop it. Basically is doesn't mean much at all. I have also read that too.

While I certainly hope to playing Elite: Dangerous for many years after that, I suspect that there's a reason why Frontier's estimate is considerably shorter than 20 years.

I don't expect the game to last another 20 years. It's just as stupid as some of the other posts in here. The difference is, is that I said it may or could be and is a possibility, no matter how small that is.

 

[Ozric]

Or are you implying that it should have been obvious in the same manner that FDEV will not provide a season per year as it is customary in entertainment?

Television shows maybe, but gaming..? Nope.

I said from the start that calling Horizons, season 2, was a bad idea cause people would stupidly jump to the conclusion there would be one a year.

 

[Devari]

That's just to appease shareholders. I am sure if it is still going strong they will continue to develop it. Basically is doesn't mean much at all. I have also read that too.

Sorry, what now? A publically traded company is required to provide accurate financial information to their shareholders. Those shareholders are making investment decisions on the basis of the information contained in those Annual Reports. Are you seriously suggesting here that we can't accept that information at face value? Do you have the slightest idea what the legal implications of what you're suggesting actually are?

I don't expect the game to last another 20 years. It's just as stupid as some of the other posts in here. The difference is, is that I said it may or could be and is a possibility, no matter how small that is.

Except we don't have to "guess" about "possibilities" here, we know exactly how long FD plans on developing Elite dangerous. They have clearly indicated a total of 7 years of development based on the information contained in their Annual Reports, which will take us to the end of 2021.

 

[Sylveria]

Television shows maybe, but gaming..? Nope.

I said from the start that calling Horizons, season 2, was a bad idea cause people would stupidly jump to the conclusion there would be one a year.

I don't think it's "stupid", but rather assumption based on historical precedence and the lack of absolutely direct information that would stop one from assumption.

Had no other company set a precedence- or Frontier simply defined what their idea of a "season" was, people likely wouldn't have relied on assumption.

 

[Luniticisi]

Frontier move to self publishing to get away from deadlines. As I mentioned before the original Kickstarter 'Alpha to release' schedule was -

Alpha - Dec 2013 - delivered
Premium Beta - Jan 2014 - err
Beta - Feb 2014 - really?
Release - March 2014 - Get'outta here!

Horizons took 2 years to roll out.

The thing here is FD learnt not to put too much pressure on themselves. I think 'Beyond' is the last time we will see a road map and feel that FD must be pretty positive they can deliver this time.

 

[Ozric]

I don't think it's "stupid", but rather assumption based on historical precedence and the lack of absolutely direct information that would stop one from assumption.

Had no other company set a precedence- or Frontier simply defined what their idea of a "season" was, people likely wouldn't have relied on assumption.

Which games company set the precedence?

It's an honest question cause I don't know of a single one that has used season to mean one expansion a year.

 

[Alex Havoc]

dear fellow LEP owners: a pessimistic attitude goes a long way here. It magically sets the default quality value of any given surprise to "nice".


Or be pragmatic about it and devide the money you've spent by your in-game hours and possibly be surprised that ED may be one of the cheapest games (in terms of currency per hour) you've ever been playing. Despite the costly LEP. If not: play more ED

 

[Devari]

The thing here is FD learnt not to put too much pressure on themselves. I think 'Beyond' is the last time we will see a road map and feel that FD must be pretty positive they can deliver this time.

Yes, if you set no actual deadlines I would also feel positive that I could deliver content at some indeterminate time in the future. Except that FD has clearly put an expiration date for Elite development as being around the end of 2021. That gives FD 3 years to deliver the "promised content" after Beyond is finished in 2018 which, according to their own Annual Report, was literally "promised" content and provides a concrete obligation that they are expected to fulfil. But possibly not a literal pinky swear type of promise. I mean technically I still don't know if that counts and would be a completely valid argument for someone to raise in this thread. Since we haven't yet had enough ridiculous arguments about what it means to sell someone an actual product that you have literally accepted money to develop.

 

[Thatchinho]

As the matter has now been posted directly courtesy of Darkfyre, I've been saved the bother of asking whether it has yet been pointed out that FD operate a Deferred Revenue policy for income from both LEPs and Horizons.

It's something which should be reassuring.

 

[Sylveria]

Which games company set the precedence?

It's an honest question cause I don't know of a single one that has used season to mean one expansion a year.

Almost every game that either EA or Ubisoft has released prior to Frontier releasing Horizons?

If you take a look back, you'll see that plenty of titles that have listed the "seasonal" models which were expected to last a year.

Rainbow Six Siege comes to mind first and foremost, but there are plenty of others that can be used for precedence.

Mind you- I personally try NOT to assume, I'm just acknowledging that it's indeed natural for one to do so when given no defining information.

 

[Sir.Tj]

Yes, if you set no actual deadlines I would also feel positive that I could deliver content at some indeterminate time in the future. Except that FD has clearly put an expiration date for Elite development as being around the end of 2021. That gives FD 3 years to deliver the "promised content" after Beyond is finished in 2018 which, according to their own Annual Report, was literally "promised" content. But possibly not a literal pinky swear type of promise. I mean technically I still don't know if that counts and would be a completely valid argument for someone to raise in this thread. Since we haven't yet had enough ridiculous arguments about what it means to sell someone an actual product that you have literally accepted money to develop.

Deadline of 2021? that's news to me. Could you link me to this?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Sorry, what now? A publically traded company is required to provide accurate financial information to their shareholders. Those shareholders are making investment decisions on the basis of the information contained in those Annual Reports. Are you seriously suggesting here that we can't accept that information at face value? Do you have the slightest idea what the legal implications of what you're suggesting actually are?

Except that statement has nothing to do with accurate financials it is a projection of the future which can change depending on circumstances and often do. There are no legal implications for projections that can change. If there were, there would be legal cases going on for virtually every institution in the country.

Except we don't have to "guess" about "possibilities" here, we know exactly how long FD plans on developing Elite dangerous. They have clearly indicated a total of 7 years of development based on the information contained in their Annual Reports, which will take us to the end of 2021.

No we don't. DBOBE said very recently that they want to continue developing the game for much longer then the 10 years that was initially mentioned if they can. As I said, that statement is not set in stone and is essentially meaningless.

 

[Viajero]

It is subjective sure.

I didn't say Frontier have taken too long to release content. Their updates have been fairly consistent. For the most part it had also been very good.

All i was saying, is that I can understand why some people are unhappy that Frontier have taken so long to release paid updates such as Atmospheric Worlds. I don't think it's unreasonable that people expected to see this far sooner than 2.5 years after the release of Horizons. I'm not talking about the whys, hows and logistics of the matter. Simple that I can understand why some people feel that way.

I am pretty sure I have heard you mention in several of your videos that you thought FDEV´s development in general was slow (paraphrasing here). If you dont think that is the case then those comments in your videos are certainly very misleading.

Many people tend to equate erroneously "taking too long in releasing what I want" with "taking too long overall with everything". I am afraid you also fell pray to that falacy in a few occasions in your vids mate.

 

[Luniticisi]

Yes, if you set no actual deadlines I would also feel positive that I could deliver content at some indeterminate time in the future. Except that FD has clearly put an expiration date for Elite development as being around the end of 2021. That gives FD 3 years to deliver the "promised content" after Beyond is finished in 2018 which, according to their own Annual Report, was literally "promised" content. But possibly not a literal pinky swear type of promise. I mean technically I still don't know if that counts and would be a completely valid argument for someone to raise in this thread. Since we haven't yet had enough ridiculous arguments about what it means to sell someone an actual product that you have literally accepted money to develop.

From what I read in that same statement FD acknowledged the fact that they have to deliver - But you are still missing the part where it said "expected lifespan" - the 'expected' lifetime of a dog is 10 – 13 years, that's not set in stone now is it.

Words in things like that annual statement aren't put in there for the fun of it. They did not say "The lifetime of the game is 4 and a half years"

 

[Devari]

Excep that statement has nothing to do with accurate financials it is a projection which can change and often do. There are no legal implications for projections that change.

Except it very much does. They are stating how many years a financial obligation will be deferred over in terms of applying LEP revenue towards future content. That is very important information. Why do you think they specified an exact timeframe in their Annual Report? I mean do you have any understanding of why those reports exist, or what the obligations are for a publically traded company to provide certain information?

No we don't. DBOBE said very recently that they want to continue developing the game for much longer then the 10 years that was initially mentioned if they can. As I said, that statement is not set in stone and is essentially meaningless.

I see, so a very specific and clear statement about the expected lifetime of Elite development in their 2017 Annual Report is "essentially meaningless". Simply because you have no understanding of what that Annual Report represents or how important it is for the information contained in that report to be accurate.

 

[Devari]

From what I read in that same statement FD acknowledged the fact that they have to deliver - But you are still missing the part where it said "expected lifespan" - the 'expected' lifetime of a dog is 10 – 13 years, that's not set in stone now is it.

Words in things like that annual statement aren't put in there for the fun of it. They did not say "The lifetime of the game is 4 and a half years"

It gives us a hard number of 7 years of total development for the Elite franchise. Unless we see a different number appear in their 2018 Annual Report that statement is considered factual information given that is published directly by FD for the express purpose of informing their shareholders about the operations of their company.

I mean seriously, do you think there are no standards that publically traded companies are held to in terms of the accuracy of information they provide? You made it sound like a specific factual statement by FD in their Annual Report somehow has no meaning when it is literally the most accurate information you will ever find about the company's operations.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Except it very much does. They are stating how many years a financial obligation will be deferred over in terms of applying LEP revenue towards future content. That is very important information. Why do you think they specified an exact timeframe in their Annual Report? I mean do you have any understanding of why those reports exist, or what the obligations are for a publically traded company to provide certain information?

Duh, no it does not. So they stop deferring the money after 4 1/2 years. So bloody what. It means nothing and is not misleading. You are trying to connect two parts of the statement that are completely seperate.

I see, so a very specific and clear statement about the expected lifetime of Elite development in their 2017 Annual Report is "essentially meaningless". Simply because you have no understanding of what that Annual Report represents or how important it is for the information contained in that report to be accurate.

I know exactly what it represents, it is you who do not and are showing your utter ignorance. How can something that is a projection of the future that hasn't happened yet meant to be accurate. By definition it cannot be and can't be until it happens.

FDev could be bought up tomorrow and the buyer could close ED down the next day, no matter what they said about the length of ED in the financial statement. If it continues to make money and FDev decide to continue development of it, nobody would blink an eyelid. Projections get updated all the time.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It gives us a hard number of 7 years of total development for the Elite franchise. Unless we see a different number appear in their 2018 Annual Report that statement is considered factual information given that is published directly by FD for the express purpose of informing their shareholders about the operations of their company.

I mean seriously, do you think there are no standards that publically traded companies are held to in terms of the accuracy of information they provide? You made it sound like a specific factual statement by FD in their Annual Report somehow has no meaning when it is literally the most accurate information you will ever find about the company's operations.

How can anything be a fact when it hasn't happened yet. Stop being foolish. It is impossible to give accurate information on something that hasn't happened.