Also when interdicted, they don't have to look for you.. they absolutely already know where you are and firing.
It's like having fog of war, but the computer automatically knows where you are, what you're doing, and knows what shields you have... Where a player has to recon all this stuff.
grr
It's like having fog of war, but the computer automatically knows where you are, what you're doing, and knows what shields you have... Where a player has to recon all this stuff.
grr
Not in this case.
When I submit to a hostile NPC, I usually fire first.
I have observed the same things. NPCs have no sense of self preservation, so even if affected by heat, they don't care.
An interesting experiment would be to take a snapshot of an NPC's subsystems, create a non-engineered build based on that, and then see if it's possible to do all that the NPC does (including spam SCBs while firing beams nonstop). Even from a power management perspective, I've seen some things that make me think - "Wait, I'm pretty sure my capacitor would be drained by now if I was flying that ship."
You can find numerous examples in the history of the game where the NPCs produce impossible to duplicate performance, even when it is not a glitch. They have been documented in various YouTube videos and anecdotally by well respected players in the community. Since the evidence exists, yes, I stand by my position.
As to your position, being told by someone, whoever they may be and however important, that observed and provable behavior isn't so doesn't make it true. As an example of this, the statement that the AI flies with 4 pips in Weapons and 2 in System and "lots of boosting" is a basic conflict as they shouldn't be recharging their boost reserve.
Please note, I have not attacked YOU in any of this. Given that I have been involved in game development, although not in Elite: Dangerous, and have been party to this type of discussion, you are perhaps overzealous in describing me as ignorant. Then again, since your intention was an ad hominem attack to discredit my position by discrediting me, that is not really surprising.
They did for a while, when they didn't stand a chance they tried to run away. It was fun you had to build your ship with interception in mind and it added a nice touch of realism.
But it led to much wailing and gnashing of teeth so they got nerfed.
CMDRs often can't afford to appear to 'care' either, since to cease firing, or not use that SCB, is far more likely to get them shot down than having a few utilities malfunction.
As noted by others NPCs run small, maybe even undersized SCBs, else they would be refilling more than the total capacity of their shields in many case, because they tend to use them early.
High rank NPCs actually have good pip management. Static pip settings are for very low rank AI and CMDRs who are lazy or don't know any better. High rank NPCs keep their capacitors full as much as possible, while also keeping pips in SYS when taking fire as much as possible, and there is zero contradiction here.
I believe more than 90% of reported NPC cheats are confirmation bias. Players just assume that NPCs cheat, since that's what NPCs do in most video games. In reality FDev went out of their way to make NPCs play fair and actually not even use the full abilities of their ships. As I said, there are bugs and VERY FEW known issues but 99% of NPC combat behavior is perfectly normal given the ship they're flying.
If anyone cheats in ED it's players - thanks to engineering and synthesis players actually have access to things they blame NPCs for, like infinite ammo, indestructible shields, magical weapons and so on.
If anyone cheats in ED it's players - thanks to engineering and synthesis players actually have access to things they blame NPCs for, like infinite ammo, indestructible shields, magical weapons and so on.
Someone once made the same claim and when I asked him for proof he showed me the videos of the Skynet AI bug. Since then I am careful when someone says he has seen videos.
When I am fighting for my life (and that's what NPCs do most of the time) I stop caring for heat too. I either try to kill my opponent as quick as possible or try to get away, ignoring hull or heat damage.
How do you know it ISN'T a glitch or a bug? Surely, by definition, any/all documented instances of the NPCs behaving in a way contrary to how the person who actually coded them says they should be behaving is precisely that - a bug. If FD support close out your trouble ticket saying it is "as designed" but the person who coded that design says otherwise, then it's the support rep that's wrong, not the programmer. She knows what she wrote the code to do and how it's supposed to operate. In my experience managing software development projects I've seen a LOT more examples of a misinformed support guy saying "that's not a bug" when it is than I have of a programmer being wrong about the design they wrote the code to. They might miss the mark on the design (hence bugs) but they usually grok the design before they write a single byte of code.
If Sarah Jane Avory says she programmed the AI to behave a certain way, then I believe her. However, the AI does have bugs. Right now system security forces are fighting each other like drunk sailors, perhaps because AI falls asleep on the fire control for PAs. I also remember like it was yesterday the infamous "scrammer" bug that cost me plenty of damage while I was minding my own business. Bugs happen.
BTW, I'm not arguing that this IS the case, but rather it might be the case.
BTW, I'm not arguing that this IS the case, but rather it might be the case.
I'm more inclined to believe MoM™, than the inaccurate counting by players in combat. NPCs run out of SCBs, chaff, heatsinks and ammo. They are also affected by heat, which is quite obvious when you are using heat weapon effects on them. A 'Conda is still surprising effective on 50% power.
Jumping with weapons deployed is clearly a bug. So is the occasional NPC with rail, plasma or missile turrets.
Jumping with weapons deployed is clearly a bug. So is the occasional NPC with rail, plasma or missile turrets.
Exactly.
One thing that NPCs do very differently to players, is that they don't panic.
NPC's do cheat in various ways:
They have unlimited ammo for multicannons (and possibly some other limited-ammo weapons).
They have aimbot-level accuracy with railguns (which makes even low-ranked Eagles in CZs quite dangerous in groups).
They have amazing "eyesight" and once they have visual contact they will still be able to "see" you despite your distance or entering silent running.
They don't use an actual FSD to travel between systems, meaning they can "follow" a much longer-ranged ship by simply spawning in the target system.
They don't need an actual FSD module to "jump" at all, even to supercruise, meaning they can jump out of combat even with a "destroyed" FSD.
They do not have proper persistence in terms of shields and hull damage (this has improved but they can sometimes re-spawn in a different ship at full health).
From what I can tell there are some ways in which NPCs don't cheat:
While some NPCs carry large numbers of SCBs or chaff they are not unlimited and I have seen some NPCs exhaust their supply of SCBs (which can be over a dozen).
They are still subject to minimum distances around stars and planets, meaning that if you are fuel scooping and they approach too close to the star they will drop out of supercruise.
They used to have impossible weapons (Skynet NPC bug) and impossible turn rates (impossibly agile Anaconda, etc.) but these have since been fixed and should now be limited to normal ship weapons and performance (although they can use Engineering and ATR ships have weapons that are not available to players).
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Deleted member 38366
D
There's literally no way for an unengineered Conda NPC to
- have Shields up
- have a potent SCB running
- have all energy-hungry Weapons firing in fully glory
- have all Shield Boosters still active
...while literally blowing up and already in the death animation due to 0% Power Plant and its catastrophic failure.
No Power Management can keep a 7A Shields with multiple Shield Boosters and a 6A SCB active, plus all Weapons and Thrusters. Not at 50% Power Output, there's physically no way.
But that's what we see every single Day.
And of course there's still the NPCs flying with Grade 8 Modded Thrusters, easily capable of Turreting a Player despite that Player in a far faster and more agile G5-modded Ship.
No problem if you're an NPC and do not suffer from Inertia as we Players do.
My ship needs to slowly change vector, I need to boost to very quickly adjust that vector and it takes considerable time to reverse it. NPCs? Not so much.
They can boost without boosting, selectively boost with barely making distance (try that in your own Cutter), turn on a dime at speeds and rates that are unpossible for a Player in the same Ship due to the Flight Model restrictions, they can Hyperjump unaligned, Hyperjump through Suns or Planets, Hyperjump with deployed Hardpoints, they almost never suffer from Module damage as we Players do and a whole lot more.
So yes... They cheat, always have.
But that's been proven over and over since a very long time now. They just need those little helpers to provide the desired Threat.
So next time you see a supposedly unengineered Anaconda NPC turreting your G5-Modded Vulture or Chieftain (on 4 Pips ENG just to keep up), don't despair.
PS.
Our own Ships btw. can benefit from a few NPC Cheats themselves : via the Docking Computer.
If you pay close attention, you'll occasionally see it achieve yaw, roll and turn rates (or oscillations of these) at speeds that are well beyond the Player's normal flight envelope (low speed or high speed envelope).
That includes inertia. The DC is barely affected by it, since it runs the Ship in "NPC mode".
(if my Cutter could do some of the aggressive moves I've seen it do while on Docking Computer - heck, it'd make for a truly formidable and very agile Combat Ship instead of being the sluggish led brick it is
)
- have Shields up
- have a potent SCB running
- have all energy-hungry Weapons firing in fully glory
- have all Shield Boosters still active
...while literally blowing up and already in the death animation due to 0% Power Plant and its catastrophic failure.
No Power Management can keep a 7A Shields with multiple Shield Boosters and a 6A SCB active, plus all Weapons and Thrusters. Not at 50% Power Output, there's physically no way.
But that's what we see every single Day.
And of course there's still the NPCs flying with Grade 8 Modded Thrusters, easily capable of Turreting a Player despite that Player in a far faster and more agile G5-modded Ship.
No problem if you're an NPC and do not suffer from Inertia as we Players do.
My ship needs to slowly change vector, I need to boost to very quickly adjust that vector and it takes considerable time to reverse it. NPCs? Not so much.
They can boost without boosting, selectively boost with barely making distance (try that in your own Cutter), turn on a dime at speeds and rates that are unpossible for a Player in the same Ship due to the Flight Model restrictions, they can Hyperjump unaligned, Hyperjump through Suns or Planets, Hyperjump with deployed Hardpoints, they almost never suffer from Module damage as we Players do and a whole lot more.
So yes... They cheat, always have.
But that's been proven over and over since a very long time now. They just need those little helpers to provide the desired Threat.
So next time you see a supposedly unengineered Anaconda NPC turreting your G5-Modded Vulture or Chieftain (on 4 Pips ENG just to keep up), don't despair.
PS.
Our own Ships btw. can benefit from a few NPC Cheats themselves : via the Docking Computer.
If you pay close attention, you'll occasionally see it achieve yaw, roll and turn rates (or oscillations of these) at speeds that are well beyond the Player's normal flight envelope (low speed or high speed envelope).
That includes inertia. The DC is barely affected by it, since it runs the Ship in "NPC mode".
(if my Cutter could do some of the aggressive moves I've seen it do while on Docking Computer - heck, it'd make for a truly formidable and very agile Combat Ship instead of being the sluggish led brick it is
)
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I've used this to my advantage in the past. When I want to fly an SLF in combat, I take my Keelback which has a combo of turrets and rails. The turrets take care of themselves, and my NPC pilot can hit the mark with those rail guns like I could never hope to do with my DS4 controller.
ps - I think all NPCs on consoles should have to use a controller
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Without taking sides:
1) you cant just say the evidence exists without showing it. "I am right cause proof is somewhere on the internet." really doesn't cut it, I am afraid.
2) Its a bit weak to start with an authority fallacy ("Its been said by well-respected players!") and then accuse the other of a different fallacy. Not that his attack on you was needed, but lets keep this clear of all fallacies while we're pointing them out.