The Star Citizen Thread v9

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
thanks for the heads-up, Youtube search "TheYamiks Pay to Win : crowdfund [Star Citizen]

It is true that it is a dead horse, both the fact it is indeed P2W and that many fans try to rationalize it with the usual "but it all can be achieved in game!" fallacy. But man... those bloopers at the end of the vid are worth it :D
 
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Also TheYamiks has a voice and expression that simply cracks me up. His first few videos about ED made me a subscriber, always good for a laugh that guy ^^
 
I can't link to it, because naughty words in video.. So search TheYamiks on youtube to find it. It's worth it.
I just watched that video and the bloopers section again shows how the ships have no apparent mass, and instead behave like they are made of balsa.
 


With the expected reaction by those deluded fools*. Tbh, everytime I discuss SC with someone I tell them to go to this subreddit and also read Spectrum, in most cases after doing that there is no need to any discussion anymore.
They're all in for arude awakening when SC implodes and I will have the laugh of my lifetime.

*Sleutelbos is the only one posting reasonable stuff over there atm.
 
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6 years, 185 million US rupees and that's the result?
Look at that lagging sh*tshow:
[video=youtube;-saq7TWFNvc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-saq7TWFNvc&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 

Oh boy... if anything that just reinforces my theory that there are only around 50 to 100 "names" on "either side"... Sleut, who is openly critical of both FDev and this thread, posts over there and instantly someone jumps in with a whole load of false equivalence about ED...

Same MO as people going on Voldsmart's twitter asking him about his games, as if their status has any indication on the deficiencies of SC...

Guys over there instantly mark anyone who has ever said anything remotely positive about ED as "not one of us" and try to reduce the validity of any points raised because "You like the other game so your views are invalid..."
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Oh boy... if anything that just reinforces my theory that there are only around 50 to 100 "names" on "either side"... Sleut, who is openly critical of both FDev and this thread, posts over there and instantly someone jumps in with a whole load of false equivalence about ED...

Same MO as people going on Voldsmart's twitter asking him about his games, as if their status has any indication on the deficiencies of SC...

Guys over there instantly mark anyone who has ever said anything remotely positive about ED as "not one of us" and try to reduce the validity of any points raised because "You like the other game so your views are invalid..."

The suggestions that the ED Cobras were P2W are laughable really. Not only in the principle but also in the staggering scale/volume difference with SC´s practices. It is really hard to tell if it is done just out of pure ignorance, to desperately hide SC´s P2W reality or just to troll. For the sake of those SC fans standing I really hope is the former.
 
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Even Chris himself isn't sure of the difference - this is him in September last year waving his hands and absolving himself of "alpha, beta, charlie or delta" in response to the question "Where do you draw a line in the sand between alpha, beta, Early Access? Are they just labels?"...

They are just labels.

But they are labels with meaning. Now, to a degree, a developer is free to call a preAlpha anything he wants. CIG are therefore justified in calling it an Alpha. Or Beta. Or preAlpha. Or Polka Dot Pink.

Me? I like things simple. Neat. Structured.

The games engine isn't finished. Ergo - preAlpha.
The games devs are still talking about doing basic design work on stuff like instances and server meshing. Ergo. preAlpha.

CIG are polishing the games assets? That could be preAlpha (if being shown to a publisher) or Beta (getting ready for release).
Since I would argue they are being shown to the backers as a way to garner funds......preAlpha.

Of course, there is the slight issue that reworking the engine and all the other work they are doing will inevitably create certain problems with game assets and mechanics and so on that will inevitably lead to a necessity for such assets and mechanics to be redone, recoded, reworked....I call that a colossal waste of money.

preAlpha, Alpha, Beta and so on are just labels that help define the different stages of development, and provide at least a rough idea of what the development team needs to be doing, needs to be concentrating on. And the reason such labels have developed and stayed around so long is because they work. While one can argue there is a degree of bleedover between the phases and that such is inevitable, it is (in my experience anyway) usually a good idea to have the design done at the start of the project, even if that only gives you an idea of what the engine you will use needs to be capable of...because then you can select the engine knowing that it will do the job you want and support the game you intend to create. And once you have the engine up and running with everything in place, you can do a more detailed design, create assets, develop gameloops and mechanics and put everything together.

CIG created Star Citizen to be a spiritual successor to Wing Commander. Whatever initial design work that was carried out was devoted to that cause. The engine was selected with that game in mind. Development via third party started with that goal in mind.

Not an MMO - but a spiritual successor to WC. As far as I can tell, that game was doable. Even with CryEngine. CryEngine wasn't perfect, IMO, but it was viable. Still is.

I'll be kind and suggest Chris got ambitious but the fact they are still doing basic design work today suggests they didn't do any when Chris Roberts decided to change genres. What he should, IMO, have done would be to continue development of the game he had the kickstarter for and develop an entirely new game, from scratch for the MMO he wanted to build. Instead, it looks as if he thought an MMO could be tacked on as an afterthought and that is when the problems with Star Citizen and its development began.

I am still hopeful a game, a good game, can be salvaged from this mess. You can see the promise, the potential in the releases. But I think anyone expecting the game we all hoped for needs to face reality. That game is dead. CIG would need to effectively scrap the entire game and start from scratch in order to realise that game. It's possible they might...just might...be able to essentially do just that through various upgrades and content patches over the next ten years but I doubt it.
 
Oh boy... if anything that just reinforces my theory that there are only around 50 to 100 "names" on "either side"... Sleut, who is openly critical of both FDev and this thread, posts over there and instantly someone jumps in with a whole load of false equivalence about ED...

Same MO as people going on Voldsmart's twitter asking him about his games, as if their status has any indication on the deficiencies of SC...

Guys over there instantly mark anyone who has ever said anything remotely positive about ED as "not one of us" and try to reduce the validity of any points raised because "You like the other game so your views are invalid..."

Its why I didnt respond to that one. Heck, even if ED was the worst game ever in the history of everything, that still wouldn't undermine any of the criticism towards SC.

"You aren't looking so well, are you feeling alright?"
"Well, you have the bubonic plague!"
"Okay, carry on then I guess..."
 
Small claims action failed. It's going to take proper arbitration, let's see if the bigger whales trying to get serious money out (right now) will get serious about it.
 
Small claims action failed. It's going to take proper arbitration, let's see if the bigger whales trying to get serious money out (right now) will get serious about it.

I suppose we need to wait and see the official ruling. If it didn't fail due to their "you are suing the wrong company and it doesn't exist anyway defence"; I don't know if that would have been considered before or after the arbitration clause?
 
I suppose we need to wait and see the official ruling. If it didn't fail due to their "you are suing the wrong company and it doesn't exist anyway defence"; I don't know if that would have been considered before or after the arbitration clause?

The hilarious and infamous 'wrong company' defence didn't apply here, someone representing RSI/CIG had to physically show up in the court.

Waiting eagerly to see if more details are posted, I'd very much like to see how and why it was dismissed...
 
The hilarious and infamous 'wrong company' defence didn't apply here, someone representing RSI/CIG had to physically show up in the court.

Waiting eagerly to see if more details are posted, I'd very much like to see how and why it was dismissed...

1Nz4xrG.png
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/8ynrel/i_lost_in_court/
 
CIG/RSI repeatedly argued that there is a playable game and that funds have been earned
Now that is interesting. If you follow their official stance when asked about the status of the game, it's supposedly pre-alpha (thus, no playable game). Here they claim there is one, so they can be held accountable for the overall delivery which is honestly a bit lacking (what was the figure from that tracker again, 17-18% complete ?)
 
Sadly - I think that what we have so far is the playable game. This is what we got for all that money. The future holds only endless refactors and MOAR videos of waving hands and handbags.
 
Well give me a few wood sticks and i have a game too and lots of potential fun. But that is not what was advertised, there's barely a 3D engine in there, no physics engine to speak of, less than barebones game loop, still non functional networking, etc. (and that was the basics). It would be simple to demonstrate the false advertising part at least, maybe ?
 
Sadly - I think that what we have so far is the playable game. This is what we got for all that money. The future holds only endless refactors and MOAR videos of waving hands and handbags.

It's starting to look that way. I tried to make the case earlier in this thread that CIG considered 3.0 an early access or a 'soft release'. Now they're on a court record claiming they have delivered a 'playable game'.

The refundian in question said they will post the court records when they are available in about a week.

As far as I know (and I'm relying on other folks with more knowledge on US legal stuff here), the only thing that was ruled on was the arbitration bit. So the arguments submitted by CIG and the refunder weren't ruled on by the judge. Nevertheless all of it is on the record.

From memory the offline drama that FDev went through generated a single thread of hundreds of pages, and there were a few small claims actions none of which made it to court (afaik) as refunds were given at the last minute.

Now that all got picked up by the gaming sites, and here we have a reddit sub dedicated to refunds, CIG submitting arguments in court that they've delivered a playable game, an arbitration clause, no game, no dates. And the games press hasn't touched any of this.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Sadly - I think that what we have so far is the playable game. This is what we got for all that money. The future holds only endless refactors and MOAR videos of waving hands and handbags.

As always, I'll just sit on the sidelines and when Sq42 drops pick it up, and enjoy my OTT space opera populated by A/B/C/Below list hollywood talent

Based on the chaps I game with, I think there's a bigger demographic than you expect who have a similar ethos.
 
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