I am from Sweden, and I do not understand what it is you are trying to say. Can you be a bit more specific, please?
Reduce the barriers to gameplay
- Thread starter CMDR Dumbfries
- Start date
I am from Sweden, and I do not understand what it is you are trying to say. Can you be a bit more specific, please?
The point is there's a vast difference between non-optional activities vs optional activities in what's considered "grind" relative to investment of time in the game. Space travel in a scale galaxy isn't "optional". If it were there would be no reason to even have a scale galaxy. Might as well point and click travel to any location instantly.
Instant-travel or instant-transfer is very different from optional activities like Engineering. It's also why I provided a much more relevant example of an optional activity (obtaining Guardian tech) because it highlights those differences. Some seem to want to relate time investment itself to "grind", when it's clearly not. It simply depends on the what in context of how the game is presented.
I think you have a really good suggestion here, some other games provide hints for these kinds of things. In ED I would think this could be hinted at in the outfitting screen or even having NPC dialogue mentioning this kind of information.
I would love it if I went to a system and the NPC chatter provided useful information along these lines. The current NPC dialogue is pretty stale, if it could be generated based on system states, ship and shipyard outfitting availability, trade data, etc., it would appear much more alive.
Imagine dropping into a system and hearing NPCs advise each other on the availability of the new Krait ship and where to get it at a good price, even in a nearby system. And, yes, I think ship and module prices should be adjusted slightly based on the local economy state.
Thats a weak collection of fallacies you've got there, partner. You act as if randomly flying around hoping to find something is some deep mechanic requiring great intellect and cognitive effort. It is not, it is just wasting time. I'll explain what I, and with me many other people, do want:
1) FD to stop wasting my time.
2) FD to add some actual challenges to the game.
3) FD to reward actual challenges better than risk-free mindless grinding.
4) FD to add everything needed to play the game sensibly is available in game: like pretty much every other game does.
And in the other side of the corner we find Solisb:
I honestly hope you enjoy NMS, and if not I hope you wont go hang around their forums as you do here.
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Thats a weak collection of fallacies you've got there, partner.You act as if randomly flying around hoping to find something is some deep mechanic requiring great intellect and cognitive effort. It is not, it is just wasting time. I'll explain what I, and with me many other people, do want:
1) FD to stop wasting my time.
2) FD to add some actual challenges to the game.
3) FD to reward actual challenges better than risk-free mindless grinding.
4) FD to add everything needed to play the game sensibly is available in game: like pretty much every other game does.
If that is so outrageous you feel the need to come up with such blanket white knighting, have at it.
Don't ya love it, disagree with an 'expert' and you get labelled a white knight, so does that make you a 'Doom Merchant or Wicked Whinger'?
1) If your time is so valuable, should you be playing a game, any game, at all?
2) Agreed, but of course it depends if the challenges meet your requirements. What might be a challenge to you, could be seen to be easy and boring to someone else, who is in the right?
3) So what are your recommendations for the reward and what are the actually challenges (you alluded to the fact that actual challenges don't exist in Point 2). Again, what you think of as a challenge isn't going to be the same as everyone else. Yes there is mindless grinding in the game, is the grinding mandatory though?
4) So you would like a nice and easy system where you can instantly find everything in the game - is that correct??? So where is the challenge of discovery, where is the sense of achievement if everything is handed to you on a plate. Why is there this sudden and frantic urge to have everything available right away, have we been reduced to a player group that demands instant gratification and reward for every action in a game?
I had to park up last night for a few hours to get rid of that Notoriety manure so played NMS, Yep, it's awesome! They have done much with so few people, as opposed to say some larger companies we know of who'se best ideas of game play are to have the player unable to use their ship for a few hours.
I notice you didn't actually answer the question asked of you, but hey.. We both knew you wouldn't be able to.
The difference between me and you is, you hyperbole with no content, where-as I say what the problem is and point or list the facts.
![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
There's a whole range of ways that the information could be provided in a way that's more, dare I say it, immersive than an in-game Google.
From the relatively simple:
Station flavor text or station announcers saying "Check out the bargains in out Outfitting department"
Through the faction summary/local news feed saying "Outbreak is expected, resulting in increased prices and reduced availability of modules in all stations"
To complex things like whenever you increase Rep level with a faction they give you a 5%, time-limited discount on outfitting in any stations they own. They could even give directions to stations with outfitting.
Of course, all these ideas get lost in the polarized "No dumbing down v. Want it all now" debate, so they'll never get seen by FDev.
[Edit]
The same principle could be applied to Tech Brokers and mats traders
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If you think people want an instant win button or are somehow grind on the mind players,min/maxers or whatever other nonsense title you would like to generalise with,on this one your wrong.
This thread is about a barrier to doing things people enjoy in the game.
So say im a new player,looking for a b rated FSD for my new diamondback,i want to go somewhere i know its in stock so i can go back to my home system to start taking a few missions to further flung destinations and branching out.
Is that player looking for an instant win button or is he just looking to get a module without all the convoluted non sense that goes with RNG stock and cmdr depletion of stock? Even if he knows what system sells the module there might still be no stock.
Is it reasonable to assume that player should spend the next hour or two going from location to location,locations that player need to know how to use the galmap filters to find btw,looking for his/her b grade FSD?
You keep missing the point because you seem to obsessed with thinking this is about some instant win for players
But that’s the game. It looks more as though you are looking for the edited highlights, a bullet point summary of the game, including simply the bits which you find satisfying to play. Those of us who like searching for elusive parts and gain satisfaction from building up our dream ship want something else. Other groups want umpteen other variations. So collectively we get this great sandbox and do with it what we will. So to me it sounds rather as though you are the one missing the point.
Not very good game then.
Then don’t waste your time on a forum chatting about it!
I'll do as please, thanks.
Lol I love places like this. Thank you for being you!!
Looking for modules is not the game lol
Its a tiny part of the game thats convoluted for many reasons. Compounded by RNG and silly stock issues.
The game is obviously how it is now,were deabating change and why some of us would like to see change. That should be obvious but maybe you missed it.
And maybe you haven't thought of the follow-on effects. Lets assume FD caved to your demands and the outfitting screen now has a lovely button that will tell you exactly where that ship or module is, and how much it is (that will have to be included otherwise the forum will be full of Commanders complaining that they have to fly around to get the right price - and their time is so precious). Yay, you can now instantly outfit your ship, all is good - or is it?
Players see the change, and start to think, why can't the same thing happen in the Commodities screen, it should show the quantities and prices for all commodities all over the galaxy. So heated threads appear on the forums, demanding a galaxy wide commodities network. How great is this, you will never have to worry having to think when trading again, everyone will be so happy
. About the same time, those that mine start insisting that detailed breakdowns of all mining bodies be readily available, why should they have to search and be at the mercy of the RND gods, it just isn't fair! FD give in, because they have already made outfitting and trade so easy, it is only fair that something is done for the miners. So now if you want pallium all you have to do is click on a menu in GalMap, and that tasty asteroid will be pointed right out for you. The community is happy again, or so we though.
But then those that Engineer start to feel left out, they are the only ones having any RND when it comes to finding things, outfitting, trade and mining have been made easy with the inclusion of these tools, what about some love for the poor players trying to find mats. FD wilt under the onslaught, because they already wilted under the others so search for Mats gets a lot of love. Now mat locations on planets are detailed precisely on maps, right down to markers on planets, and each different mat is concentrated because, you know, everyone's time is precious and they can't afford to just be wandering round to different markers to get that selenium can they. But what about the USSs the community cries, we still have to waste our time looking for those. Yep you guessed it, now a simple honk of the ADS will not only show every USS in the system (where are now persistent) but what type they are and what is in each one.
Now everyone is happy, everything that can need to be found is locatable at the click of a button. Except players are now complaining that game is too easy, where is the sense of adventure, where is the sense of achievement when finding something.
You may laugh, and you will scoff, ridicule and belittle me, I don't really care. But you can't deny that the above wouldn't happen with this community, give them an inch and they will demand a mile.
Time is a resource. Maybe the most valuable. ED's problem is that it compounds the time you need to spend. That scale and travel time might be a factor to convey the scale of the galaxy. It is mostly a means to what you can achieve in a given time. It's the baseline cost for activities and I totally understand why people would like to tackle this baseline to get the other stuff to be done more efficiently.
And maybe you haven't thought of the follow-on effects. Lets assume FD caved to your demands and the outfitting screen now has a lovely button that will tell you exactly where that ship or module is, and how much it is (that will have to be included otherwise the forum will be full of Commanders complaining that they have to fly around to get the right price - and their time is so precious). Yay, you can now instantly outfit your ship, all is good - or is it?
Players see the change, and start to think, why can't the same thing happen in the Commodities screen, it should show the quantities and prices for all commodities all over the galaxy. So heated threads appear on the forums, demanding a galaxy wide commodities network. How great is this, you will never have to worry having to think when trading again, everyone will be so happySo now if you want pallium all you have to do is click on a menu in GalMap, and that tasty asteroid will be pointed right out for you. The community is happy again, or so we though.
But then those that Engineer start to feel left out, they are the only ones having any RND when it comes to finding things, outfitting, trade and mining have been made easy with the inclusion of these tools, what about some love for the poor players trying to find mats. FD wilt under the onslaught, because they already wilted under the others so search for Mats gets a lot of love. Now mat locations on planets are detailed precisely on maps, right down to markers on planets, and each different mat is concentrated because, you know, everyone's time is precious and they can't afford to just be wandering round to different markers to get that selenium can they. But what about the USSs the community cries, we still have to waste our time looking for those. Yep you guessed it, now a simple honk of the ADS will not only show every USS in the system (where are now persistent) but what type they are and what is in each one.
Now everyone is happy, everything that can need to be found is locatable at the click of a button. Except players are now complaining that game is too easy, where is the sense of adventure, where is the sense of achievement when finding something.
You may laugh, and you will scoff, ridicule and belittle me, I don't really care. But you can't deny that the above wouldn't happen with this community, give them an inch and they will demand a mile.
It is a paradox. In the past you didn't have Internet to moan or find cheats for stuff you want to skip. You have to finish game yourself if you wanted to.
These days companies basically engage in shadow war or combat of wits with players. Lot of challenge comes from discovering knowledge. Players used to hand holding throws tantrums. After all you couldn't see your mission targets in maps in World of Warcraft initially.
And maybe you haven't thought of the follow-on effects. Lets assume FD caved to your demands and the outfitting screen now has a lovely button that will tell you exactly where that ship or module is, and how much it is (that will have to be included otherwise the forum will be full of Commanders complaining that they have to fly around to get the right price - and their time is so precious). Yay, you can now instantly outfit your ship, all is good - or is it?
Players see the change, and start to think, why can't the same thing happen in the Commodities screen, it should show the quantities and prices for all commodities all over the galaxy. So heated threads appear on the forums, demanding a galaxy wide commodities network. How great is this, you will never have to worry having to think when trading again, everyone will be so happySo now if you want pallium all you have to do is click on a menu in GalMap, and that tasty asteroid will be pointed right out for you. The community is happy again, or so we though.
But then those that Engineer start to feel left out, they are the only ones having any RND when it comes to finding things, outfitting, trade and mining have been made easy with the inclusion of these tools, what about some love for the poor players trying to find mats. FD wilt under the onslaught, because they already wilted under the others so search for Mats gets a lot of love. Now mat locations on planets are detailed precisely on maps, right down to markers on planets, and each different mat is concentrated because, you know, everyone's time is precious and they can't afford to just be wandering round to different markers to get that selenium can they. But what about the USSs the community cries, we still have to waste our time looking for those. Yep you guessed it, now a simple honk of the ADS will not only show every USS in the system (where are now persistent) but what type they are and what is in each one.
Now everyone is happy, everything that can need to be found is locatable at the click of a button. Except players are now complaining that game is too easy, where is the sense of adventure, where is the sense of achievement when finding something.
You may laugh, and you will scoff, ridicule and belittle me, I don't really care. But you can't deny that the above wouldn't happen with this community, give them an inch and they will demand a mile.
Belittle you? Scoff? Not really.
Point out why i think your wrong? Yes,100%.
Being afraid of those other things has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Some may even call it a strawman argument.
Or a slippery slope if you will.