Have you met Marco Qwent by any chance? Also there's the need to be allied with Sirius Corp. What does a man need with so many modular terminals? I needed therapy after unlocking. Still probably do to be fair.. [noob]
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Just when you thought grinding couldn't get any lower...
- Thread starter Staarlord
- Start date
Have you met Marco Qwent by any chance? Also there's the need to be allied with Sirius Corp. What does a man need with so many modular terminals? I needed therapy after unlocking. Still probably do to be fair.. [noob]
Frontier have ensured one cannot simply "just play" and unlock all engineers. This fallacy, that one can just "play the game" and everything will just happen assumes that's actually possible; it demonstrably isn't, in that Frontier have intentionally designed some unlocks to require specific steps; in particular, repeating the same steps. This comment kinda just ignores reality, to be fair. Be honest; it's okay.
Even Frontier are relatively wistful about the fact that some of this has an expected commitment.
So focus on an action and get the pain over with? Got it. This is like a 180º degree shift from "play the game" but hey at least you're being a little more honest now. It's a start. o7
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Important to note about that one is that the station will sell you some more a few minutes later (~10mins?), for up to 10t in your cargo hold. So, buy the first batch, shoot some pirates, make another trade run, walk the dog, call your mom,... get the second batch, and then make the trip to Broo Tarquin.
But man that grind had me down - the first few runs I made in a Python. Just for the last runs I bought me an Asp Explorer...
And that AspE is now ready and waiting for trips to The Sarge, Tiana Fortune and Ram Tah, as I now meet their requirements as well.
Last but not least, feverishly looking to unlock "my" last engineers, Prof. Palin, Lori Jameson, Selene Jean, Didi Vatermann and Bill Turner... [wacky]
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Alchemist Finklestein: I think it needs...a Pickled Eagles Egg!
*runs to shelf, throw in pot*
Alchemist Finklestein: Quickly, get me some...Putrid Pirate Perspiration!
*runs to shelf, throw in pot*
Alchemist Finklestein: Tastes like it needs more....Withered Batwing!
*runs to shelf, throw in pot*
*rpt every day for 'x' days until you want to throw Finklestein in the pot*
The Engineers unlock reminded me of this old gem, I don't know why.
Maybe because it's just a random selection of unrelated items that must be gathered for no particular reason in order to progress.
Now this...this would be a good step forward but the problem lies within FD's mission structure and it's reliance on random string events.
i.e Bring *random* to *random* to get *random*
It works in broad strokes, and it saves a lot of work, but has the character and personalization of a brick.
And not even a pretty brick.
*runs to shelf, throw in pot*
Alchemist Finklestein: Quickly, get me some...Putrid Pirate Perspiration!
*runs to shelf, throw in pot*
Alchemist Finklestein: Tastes like it needs more....Withered Batwing!
*runs to shelf, throw in pot*
*rpt every day for 'x' days until you want to throw Finklestein in the pot*
The Engineers unlock reminded me of this old gem, I don't know why.
Maybe because it's just a random selection of unrelated items that must be gathered for no particular reason in order to progress.
Now this...this would be a good step forward but the problem lies within FD's mission structure and it's reliance on random string events.
i.e Bring *random* to *random* to get *random*
It works in broad strokes, and it saves a lot of work, but has the character and personalization of a brick.
And not even a pretty brick.
Whenever I see topics about grinding, Engineering and rares this comes to mind......
Caliber
[video=youtube;ZUh6qV7biB0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUh6qV7biB0[/video]
Caliber
It's always baffles me why people cite Qwent as an example of how "hard" unlocking engineers it.
It took me less than an hour to find the 20 (?) modular terminals and, as these things go, I found it quite enjoyable to be left to my own devices as to how I obtained them - rather than the "back and forth with rares" thing that other engineers require.
And this was back when missions yielded 2 or 4 MTs.
These days, you can look at the mission board or passenger lounge and pick up one mission that offers 30-odd MTs as a reward.
And that's supposed to be "difficult" or a "grind"? [uhh]
You're in luck! Kamitra must be in boom! Only three trips! Without boom, the best you could do is five trips, and that is if you wait 10-20 minutes for five more cigars to spawn after buying the first five. Ten max is the cap - unless Kamitra is in boom...
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It's not just the modular terminals though is it...you need to gain rep with sirius corp as well.
Also back in the day modular terminals were only available as rewards on passenger missions (IIRC) which if you are not interested in these becomes a 'grind'. He is also a mostly useless engineer as there are other engineers that do everything he can do but better. He is just seen as a stepping stone to get to Palin, so it's a grind to unlock an engineer you won't use to unlock another grind for an engineer you will....that is why he is often cited.
It's not hard per se, just mind numbingly boring and unnecessary...god forbid FDev actually made these unlocks fun or interesting in any way.
I found the Qwent unlock to be a most egregious waste of my time.
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I recall being slightly concerned about this one at the time - I'd seen like one mission offering Modular Terminals as a reward. However, once you've triggered the introduction to this guy, the game starts spawning LOTS of missions with MT's as rewards. So, it turned out to be pretty easy, one of the easier ones in fact. It seems the missions are even more generous now. I agree that having to go out and find stuff - via various potential means - make for more enjoyable gameplay than collecting 50 [insert rare here] 2 or 3 at a time. Didn't like those unlocks!
Scoob.
You say you haven't unlocked them, then say it should change - try it - an hour of back & forth and you're done.
Don't fear the content
Do it for the bounties in a killer ship with a tiny cargohold acting as a pirate magnet and it's even less "I hate moving stuff". Took me about a week and I made pots of filthy space cash.
Oh yeah, he's useless I just didn't find his unlock excessively grindy...good job really, he's useless you know lol
Scoob.
Spent like 4-5 hours and didn’t even get to unlock Qwent/Palin. Due to RNG, you never know...
Fixed it for ya
Deleted member 38366
D
It's been a long time... But I still remember unlocking and gaining Grade 5 with all "Las Vegas" RNGneers.
Just Grind-wall gated by Grind-wall gated by artificial limitations and restrictions.
By now, IMHO the original Engineers Design could have come only from three possible types of Designers :
- someone who clearly wanted Engineered Equipment to be a very rare thing and a fully Engineered Ship to be an Alpha-Rare encounter
- someone who had absolutely no clue - whatsoever - what he or she was doing
- someone with a very deep nested hatred for Frontier Customers and a medically indicative degree of sadism
How else could you explain a Feature originally designed to :
- fully and intentionally waste and destroy time like there is no tomorrow
- create the maximum possible degree of frustration
- around every corner clearly display to the Customer that he/she is an unwanted and deeply hated entity who is to be treated with the highest possible disrespect
- invite those very Customers to engage in a Major Feature which requires to engage horrid placeholder minigames full of RNG and sadistic design philosophy
------------------
Now we've come a long way, but alot of the original "let us show you how much we hate you" design remains in place.
In my books, this is how things would run with Engineers :
Unlocking
1) Requirements allow for any needed Unlock Items to be attained by a single event
- need to buy or earn Cargo or Rares? Your Invite carries a Multiplier which will cause any Station or Mission w/ appropriate Rewards to issue you the full batch. No boring repetitive trips "just because we can make you do so"
- have an NPC Crew? Great - you can assign the NPC a suitable Ship and task that very NPC to acquire any required Cargo; depending on rarity, such a Tasking will come at a price (Credits) though
Reputation / Invitations
1) instead of following a fixed path, getting Invitations for new Engineers is changed after passing the threshold
- after qualifying to attain knowledge of a new Engineer, 3 possible new Engineers are offered instead; Player can choose their own path then and avoid Engineers that are fundamentally useless to their own preferences
2) Player has basic knowledge of every single Engineer right off the bet
- faces, names and locations are blanked out, but their fundamental Invite Requirements are posted (just so Players know what they need to do to get an Invite in the 1st place - AFAIK that currently remains entirely undocumented in-game)
Engineering process
- besides the RNG-to-the-upside method, a new method is introduced : actual Engineering, no RNG
- Player can set all sliders manually as desired and then gets an appropriate list of Materials needed which will complete the desired Mod in a single Engineer application. Requirements are in line with average standard method to attain a similar Mod Quality.
2) have an NPC Crew? Great - issue that NPC a Ship equipped as desired, hand over Materials as required and have it fly it to any Engineer and have any Engineering performed
- such remote services come at a Premium by the Engineers (higher Materials costs) due to having to deal indirectly with the Player
- the NPC Tasking will cost Credits based on distance; both NPC and Ship will be unavailable until they return except for the Engineering
Engineer Facilities
- every single Engineer stops being artificially barred from selling A-Grade Equipment; instead anything an Engineer can mod will be on sale for all Classes and Grades
- every single Engineer has a Shipyard to facilitate chain-modding of multiple Ships
Remote WorkShops
- every remote WorkShop is capable of converting legacy mods
Legacy Module Conversion
- instead of simply converting any G5 Mod into a top-end G4, the quality of the Legacy Mod is assessed and used instead for the conversion process
- if any is present, the most distinct positive secondary effect will be automatically applied as a Special Effect
- after a conversion, most of all legacy Modules will have nearly identical quality (i.e. a converted Module might end up being a 94.4% G5 Mod by the current standards; god-rolls will be 100.0% G5 Mods w/ appropriate Special Effect applied)
Attaining Elements/Materials/Data
- NPC Crews can be assigned Ships and be sent into specific System (Player needs to choose properly to ensure i.e. correct Faction States and/or Population) to gather a limited amount of Mats for the Player
- Ship type, Mat rarity and time needed will dictate the Payment the NPC will demand for the Tasking; Time needed will be the result of the System choice, distance and amount of Mats desired
- both Ship and NPC will be unavailable until the NPC has completed the Tasking or is recalled early
-> this avoids Players having to engage with boring, frustrating or RNG-based/poorly designed Game Elements they already know they don't like, hence providing a premium alternative Option with a limited by guaranteed outcome per NPC
-> having multiple NPCs hired
NPC Crew payments
- payments for any of above Tasking is to be paid in advance to prevent hire&fire exploits
---------------------------
This is how I would have done it. No artificial grind-walls for the sake of building access restrictions, no intentional frustrating elements and alternative paths whenever those are desired or preferred.
Plus, finally an Option of "Engineering" that actually represents Engineering, no RNG, all while retaining the existing level-up System that is already in place.
Additionally, it allows NPC Crews to make themselves useful beyond the current, harsh and shallow limitations. They're on your payroll, so they're supposed to work for the Player. So let them do just that if the Player makes that choice.
Just Grind-wall gated by Grind-wall gated by artificial limitations and restrictions.
By now, IMHO the original Engineers Design could have come only from three possible types of Designers :
- someone who clearly wanted Engineered Equipment to be a very rare thing and a fully Engineered Ship to be an Alpha-Rare encounter
- someone who had absolutely no clue - whatsoever - what he or she was doing
- someone with a very deep nested hatred for Frontier Customers and a medically indicative degree of sadism
How else could you explain a Feature originally designed to :
- fully and intentionally waste and destroy time like there is no tomorrow
- create the maximum possible degree of frustration
- around every corner clearly display to the Customer that he/she is an unwanted and deeply hated entity who is to be treated with the highest possible disrespect
- invite those very Customers to engage in a Major Feature which requires to engage horrid placeholder minigames full of RNG and sadistic design philosophy
------------------
Now we've come a long way, but alot of the original "let us show you how much we hate you" design remains in place.
In my books, this is how things would run with Engineers :
Unlocking
1) Requirements allow for any needed Unlock Items to be attained by a single event
- need to buy or earn Cargo or Rares? Your Invite carries a Multiplier which will cause any Station or Mission w/ appropriate Rewards to issue you the full batch. No boring repetitive trips "just because we can make you do so"
- have an NPC Crew? Great - you can assign the NPC a suitable Ship and task that very NPC to acquire any required Cargo; depending on rarity, such a Tasking will come at a price (Credits) though
Reputation / Invitations
1) instead of following a fixed path, getting Invitations for new Engineers is changed after passing the threshold
- after qualifying to attain knowledge of a new Engineer, 3 possible new Engineers are offered instead; Player can choose their own path then and avoid Engineers that are fundamentally useless to their own preferences
2) Player has basic knowledge of every single Engineer right off the bet
- faces, names and locations are blanked out, but their fundamental Invite Requirements are posted (just so Players know what they need to do to get an Invite in the 1st place - AFAIK that currently remains entirely undocumented in-game)
Engineering process
- besides the RNG-to-the-upside method, a new method is introduced : actual Engineering, no RNG
- Player can set all sliders manually as desired and then gets an appropriate list of Materials needed which will complete the desired Mod in a single Engineer application. Requirements are in line with average standard method to attain a similar Mod Quality.
2) have an NPC Crew? Great - issue that NPC a Ship equipped as desired, hand over Materials as required and have it fly it to any Engineer and have any Engineering performed
- such remote services come at a Premium by the Engineers (higher Materials costs) due to having to deal indirectly with the Player
- the NPC Tasking will cost Credits based on distance; both NPC and Ship will be unavailable until they return except for the Engineering
Engineer Facilities
- every single Engineer stops being artificially barred from selling A-Grade Equipment; instead anything an Engineer can mod will be on sale for all Classes and Grades
- every single Engineer has a Shipyard to facilitate chain-modding of multiple Ships
Remote WorkShops
- every remote WorkShop is capable of converting legacy mods
Legacy Module Conversion
- instead of simply converting any G5 Mod into a top-end G4, the quality of the Legacy Mod is assessed and used instead for the conversion process
- if any is present, the most distinct positive secondary effect will be automatically applied as a Special Effect
- after a conversion, most of all legacy Modules will have nearly identical quality (i.e. a converted Module might end up being a 94.4% G5 Mod by the current standards; god-rolls will be 100.0% G5 Mods w/ appropriate Special Effect applied)
Attaining Elements/Materials/Data
- NPC Crews can be assigned Ships and be sent into specific System (Player needs to choose properly to ensure i.e. correct Faction States and/or Population) to gather a limited amount of Mats for the Player
- Ship type, Mat rarity and time needed will dictate the Payment the NPC will demand for the Tasking; Time needed will be the result of the System choice, distance and amount of Mats desired
- both Ship and NPC will be unavailable until the NPC has completed the Tasking or is recalled early
-> this avoids Players having to engage with boring, frustrating or RNG-based/poorly designed Game Elements they already know they don't like, hence providing a premium alternative Option with a limited by guaranteed outcome per NPC
-> having multiple NPCs hired
NPC Crew payments
- payments for any of above Tasking is to be paid in advance to prevent hire&fire exploits
---------------------------
This is how I would have done it. No artificial grind-walls for the sake of building access restrictions, no intentional frustrating elements and alternative paths whenever those are desired or preferred.
Plus, finally an Option of "Engineering" that actually represents Engineering, no RNG, all while retaining the existing level-up System that is already in place.
Additionally, it allows NPC Crews to make themselves useful beyond the current, harsh and shallow limitations. They're on your payroll, so they're supposed to work for the Player. So let them do just that if the Player makes that choice.
So you got allied with Sirius, found the terminals and the permit mission, ALL in about an hour. And that back in the day, eh? Please excuse me while I fart in the general direction of the apologist crap you just posted...
That's faulty thinking too, IMO.
You should pretty-much always be carrying out the least modifications to a PP as possible.
I don't think I've ever needed a G5 engineered PP and the vast majority of my ships run with G1 or G2 engineered PPs.
Equally, with the PDist, you can "overcook" them by modding them to G5 and end up with a PDist with a quick recharge but a tiny capacity, or the opposite.
That being the case, a G3 engineered PDist is usually as much as I want.
All that being the case, Qwent is a perfectly adequate engineer to make use of.