Hardware & Technical Virpil WarBRD, T-50 Throttle and Constellation grip video review

[Zeeman]

Looking pretty darn awesome, looking forward to the throttle with analog stick more than ever now!

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=3CwhET4yYKc&t[/video]

Constellation grip comes with built in twist, for all those that like their twist grips. This actually looks awesome for a dual stick setup.

Z...

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Yeah...

I think I'm going to have to return my warthog throttle...

And I'm pretty much set on getting the virpil throttle and a second gimbal+delta stick...
So my ED flight combo will be the two sticks with the throttle for 'additionals'

This is becoming expensive...

 

[Zeeman]

It really does smash the Warthog Throttle in terms of usefulness. The Warthog throttle is great for the DCS Warthog module, but fairly limited for most other applications.

Z...

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Im atm using it with the huey.
Long smooth axis is nice for a collective.

But I just know the virpil will be as good. At minimum.
And have more buttons that properly lend itself to being bound as per the game.

Been spending two days trying to get dcs to take a few commands as hold switches and finally just gave up.

 

[BurnyBurns]

After watching, I still don't quite get the differentiation between the WarBRD and the T50 base of Virpil.

T50:
- taller
- spring tension configuration without disassembly
- Requires mounting option.

WarBRD:
- lower profile
- configuration requires some disassembly
- desktop compatible out of the box, requires adapter plate for Virpil mount, but seems generally more flexible in terms of mounting

Everything else, from the contactless sensors, to high quality metal mechanics, to configurability by means of swapping cams, to compatibility with grips seems very much the same. On top, the price difference in the EU store is outright negligible. T50 base: 214,95€, WarBRD base: 199,95€.

Assuming that both will be available at some point, why should I chose one over the other? Or rather: Why should Virpil keep producing two different mounts that are mostly distinguished by their out of the box mounting options? Why don't they consolidate their portfolio into one option that is compatible with both ways of mounting? E.g. phase out the T50 mount and concentrate on the WarBRD. Assuming that both have the same throw and offer the same options for tension, the WarBRD is more versatile in terms of mounting and a smaller profile is never a bad thing. The spring tension configurability of the T50 seems like a small sacrifice, since it's also possible by changing the spirngs of the WarBRD and tension adjustment should be a one time configuration in the first place.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

My viewpoint is the other way around.

No flightstick should ever be mounted on a desk.
Unless said desk I knee high.
You are buying a $500 control peripheral, you really shouldn't say no to the mount.
They are as good as monstertechs and $200 less.

Unless you are dedicated to a single game or a single plane I find the loss of the tensioning springs a rather sour pill to swallow.

In ED for instance I want the acrobatic springs with a bit of tension, In DCS and the Huey I prefer that as practically no spring what so ever, helicopter controls are notoriously light.

Other planes would see use of the tighter springs but having to open up and switch springs manually for every little change, and as mentioned.
No fine tension adjustment.

No thank you.

 

[BurnyBurns]

My viewpoint is the other way around.

No flightstick should ever be mounted on a desk.
Unless said desk I knee high.
You are buying a $500 control peripheral, you really shouldn't say no to the mount.
They are as good as monstertechs and $200 less.

Unless you are dedicated to a single game or a single plane I find the loss of the tensioning springs a rather sour pill to swallow.

In ED for instance I want the acrobatic springs with a bit of tension, In DCS and the Huey I prefer that as practically no spring what so ever, helicopter controls are notoriously light.

Other planes would see use of the tighter springs but having to open up and switch springs manually for every little change, and as mentioned.
No fine tension adjustment.

No thank you.

You know, hardware placement fascism is entirely misplaced. For starters: It's not consistent in real aircraft. There are enough civil airliners with the pilot's stick on the pilot's left hand side, at about... desk height. For another, people's simulation setups are none of your business - nor Virpil's for that matter, although they have a somewhat higher stake in it as the party who wants to sell stuff to people.

What's stopping somebody from playing in an Airbus airliner in Prepar3D with a Constellation grip mounted on a T50 base to their left side at about desk height? Nothing. If they don't require a faithfully rebuild cockpit with original instruments and controls to enjoy the simulation and that setup feels good to them, more power to them.

But the lack of immediately visible differentiation between Virpil's bases may be an issue, because it makes choices harder for the customer while requiring Virpil to maintain production of two different products. If the T50 is supposed to be the higher end option being intended for dedicated mounts and offering tensioning por enthusiasts? It being a mere 15€ above the WarBRD tells a different story. Why would you even go for the WarBRD, if you intend to mount the base on a dedicated mount? It's virtually the same price as the T50 base after factoring in the mount adapter, but lacks the spring tensioning feature. On the other hand, it demonstrates that it's very well possible to construct a base compatible with both mounting options in an even smaller package than the T50 base. The T50's mount is also less well suited for faithful cockpit rebuilds with sticks on the florr, since it lacks mounting holes at the base's bottom. Is the deciding factor then merely whether you want to mount it on the desk or on a mount?


If you take a step back from your preconceived notions for how a stick "has" to be mounted and imagine I'm somebody who will mount the stick centrally anyway without using the Virpil mount and doesn't care for the spring tensioning - Tell me which one I should buy? The WarBRD or the T50 mount?

Or rather: Can you tell my why Virpil sells two entirely differently designed bases with largely overlapping features at virtually the same price point? Am I unreasonable in expecting a well organized company dedicated to selling high end gear to streamline their manufacturing into a single product speaking to both target audiences instead of fragmenting their production pipeline for two nearly interchangable ones with little distinction?

There may of course be the killer-feature differentiating the WarBRD from the T50 and vice versa, but I'm not seeing it and Noobifier1337 sounds like he hasn't found it either. If they run two completely separate lines of bases, I'd expect them to either have very notable different feature sets or very notable price differences. Neither seems to be the case here.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Wow, holy butthurt batman.

Since I argue pro-ergonomics I'm a fascist ?

I was just saying there are more viewpoints than yours.

You buy your warbrd and put it wherever you like in whatever manner you want.

I for instance find it a poor trade off, lower profile vs more tuning options.

You go ahead and enjoy the warbrd I and I'm perfectly happy with my t-50.
That's why virpil make and sell both.
Everybody wins.

A lot of aircraft are not built for ergonomics, the main focus was to get the job done and with mechanics that worked.

We don't have that problem, it's all fly by wire for us so we can put it wherever we want, however we can imagine.

I have always taken ergonomics seriously, and after nearly 30 years of sitting in front of a computer I'm reaping the benefits, not one repetitive stress induced problem what so ever.

Pardon me for wanting your health to remain well.

 

[Iskariot]

Looking pretty darn awesome, looking forward to the throttle with analog stick more than ever now!



Constellation grip comes with built in twist, for all those that like their twist grips. This actually looks awesome for a dual stick setup.

Z...

TWIST!!!!!
That is awesome news.

But... after having watched the vid:

The thumb scroll wheel is very awkwardly placed.
It is a mystery to me why they did not add a thumb firebutton to the side.

 

[Zeeman]

After watching, I still don't quite get the differentiation between the WarBRD and the T50 base of Virpil.

T50:
- taller
- spring tension configuration without disassembly
- Requires mounting option.

WarBRD:
- lower profile
- configuration requires some disassembly
- desktop compatible out of the box, requires adapter plate for Virpil mount, but seems generally more flexible in terms of mounting

Everything else, from the contactless sensors, to high quality metal mechanics, to configurability by means of swapping cams, to compatibility with grips seems very much the same. On top, the price difference in the EU store is outright negligible. T50 base: 214,95€, WarBRD base: 199,95€.

Assuming that both will be available at some point, why should I chose one over the other? Or rather: Why should Virpil keep producing two different mounts that are mostly distinguished by their out of the box mounting options? Why don't they consolidate their portfolio into one option that is compatible with both ways of mounting? E.g. phase out the T50 mount and concentrate on the WarBRD. Assuming that both have the same throw and offer the same options for tension, the WarBRD is more versatile in terms of mounting and a smaller profile is never a bad thing. The spring tension configurability of the T50 seems like a small sacrifice, since it's also possible by changing the spirngs of the WarBRD and tension adjustment should be a one time configuration in the first place.

Think of it a different way. The WarBRD is designed more like an F-16 grip - it's supposed to sit to your side at elbow height.

The T-50 is more like a Warthog/F-14/F-15/F-18 etc stick, designed to be between your legs on an extension.

Z...

 

[BurnyBurns]

Think of it a different way. The WarBRD is designed more like an F-16 grip - it's supposed to sit to your side at elbow height.

The T-50 is more like a Warthog/F-14/F-15/F-18 etc stick, designed to be between your legs on an extension.

Z...

Was that communicated by Virpil like that or is it what you deduced from looking at it? As it stands, Virpil explicitely sells gear enabling the WarBRD to be mounted on their mounts, be that left, right or center, with or without extension. In that respect, it's actually more versatile than the T50 mount and as I already said, assuming it allows for the same spring tension and cam profile configurations - be that through disassembly or not - wouldn't it even be the superior design, having a smaller profile?

If I wanted to upgrade from the Warthog base, having non-Virpil center mount made from aluminium extrusions, I'd not even know which base to go for. I don't anticipate having to adjust spring tension on the fly although having the feature certainly wouldn't hurt. On the other hand, since the base will sit on a car seat between my legs (car seat makes mounting on the ground unergonomic), the less tall footprint and superior flexible mounting options (holes in the base) of the WarBRD do have their appeal over the T50.

I'm certainly overthinking this, but really, I fail to see the decisive distinction between the bases. Maybe Virpil is thinking more of the Star Citizen/Elite crowd with the WarBRD and simply anticipate to mainly sell it in combination with the Constellation grip as the "you-don't-need-a-simpit" solution?

But I still question why they've gone to the length of coming up with an entirely new mechanical design for the WarBRD rather than consolidating their designs into a single one and simply selling packages with different spring/cam and grip configurations for the different target audiences. As it stands, either base can be configured to be used by either audience and the price difference will be all but negligible.


In the end, there's still no definitive answer to the question which base you should buy. Virpil's problem, not mine unless I want to buy their products. But lack of differentiating between products seems not like a good thing to me. Notwithstanding unavailability, crappy shop, stick connector revisions etc.. , the VKB Gunfighter base is much less confusing - it's one base. The customer choses whether it's for table or dedicated mount use and respectively, whether it should be paired with an extension or not.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

When I have the cash I will be getting the WarBRD base and the Delta Constellation. I already have the Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle. I can see those two going together very nicely for VR purposes.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Was that communicated by Virpil like that or is it what you deduced from looking at it? As it stands, Virpil explicitely sells gear enabling the WarBRD to be mounted on their mounts, be that left, right or center, with or without extension. In that respect, it's actually more versatile than the T50 mount and as I already said, assuming it allows for the same spring tension and cam profile configurations - be that through disassembly or not - wouldn't it even be the superior design, having a smaller profile?

If I wanted to upgrade from the Warthog base, having non-Virpil center mount made from aluminium extrusions, I'd not even know which base to go for. I don't anticipate having to adjust spring tension on the fly although having the feature certainly wouldn't hurt. On the other hand, since the base will sit on a car seat between my legs (car seat makes mounting on the ground unergonomic), the less tall footprint and superior flexible mounting options (holes in the base) of the WarBRD do have their appeal over the T50.

I'm certainly overthinking this, but really, I fail to see the decisive distinction between the bases. Maybe Virpil is thinking more of the Star Citizen/Elite crowd with the WarBRD and simply anticipate to mainly sell it in combination with the Constellation grip as the "you-don't-need-a-simpit" solution?

But I still question why they've gone to the length of coming up with an entirely new mechanical design for the WarBRD rather than consolidating their designs into a single one and simply selling packages with different spring/cam and grip configurations for the different target audiences. As it stands, either base can be configured to be used by either audience and the price difference will be all but negligible.


In the end, there's still no definitive answer to the question which base you should buy. Virpil's problem, not mine unless I want to buy their products. But lack of differentiating between products seems not like a good thing to me. Notwithstanding unavailability, crappy shop, stick connector revisions etc.. , the VKB Gunfighter base is much less confusing - it's one base. The customer choses whether it's for table or dedicated mount use and respectively, whether it should be paired with an extension or not.

That's what I garnered from the Noobifier video, but I admit I saw that at 2 am last night so might well have misunderstood.

He was going to make a full breakdown and tuning vid soon.
I'l happily be mistaken though.

I dunno why Virpil makes the two, I can only assume they have done their market research and considered it worthwhile to make them both.
They also seem to use a different type of CAM's as well.

 

[Zeeman]

Was that communicated by Virpil like that or is it what you deduced from looking at it? As it stands, Virpil explicitely sells gear enabling the WarBRD to be mounted on their mounts, be that left, right or center, with or without extension. In that respect, it's actually more versatile than the T50 mount and as I already said, assuming it allows for the same spring tension and cam profile configurations - be that through disassembly or not - wouldn't it even be the superior design, having a smaller profile?

If I wanted to upgrade from the Warthog base, having non-Virpil center mount made from aluminium extrusions, I'd not even know which base to go for. I don't anticipate having to adjust spring tension on the fly although having the feature certainly wouldn't hurt. On the other hand, since the base will sit on a car seat between my legs (car seat makes mounting on the ground unergonomic), the less tall footprint and superior flexible mounting options (holes in the base) of the WarBRD do have their appeal over the T50.

I'm certainly overthinking this, but really, I fail to see the decisive distinction between the bases. Maybe Virpil is thinking more of the Star Citizen/Elite crowd with the WarBRD and simply anticipate to mainly sell it in combination with the Constellation grip as the "you-don't-need-a-simpit" solution?

But I still question why they've gone to the length of coming up with an entirely new mechanical design for the WarBRD rather than consolidating their designs into a single one and simply selling packages with different spring/cam and grip configurations for the different target audiences. As it stands, either base can be configured to be used by either audience and the price difference will be all but negligible.


In the end, there's still no definitive answer to the question which base you should buy. Virpil's problem, not mine unless I want to buy their products. But lack of differentiating between products seems not like a good thing to me. Notwithstanding unavailability, crappy shop, stick connector revisions etc.. , the VKB Gunfighter base is much less confusing - it's one base. The customer choses whether it's for table or dedicated mount use and respectively, whether it should be paired with an extension or not.

That's "my" summary of all the Virpil comments in the various threads about the product on the DCS forum.

For a specific quote:

Hey guys - just to clarify about the VPC WarBRD and extensions.

The VPC WarBRD is designed as a desktop stick. The cam profiles and the spring strengths are designed with desktop use in mind. The max deflection angle of the VPC WarBRD is also larger due to it being designed with desktop use in mind. If you use extensions, the overall stroke length would be quite large and could lead to clearance issues. Because of this, we do not recommend using extensions.

It's not a question of strength or quality!
https://youtu.be/3BZFBUsuesY?t=103

 

[BurnyBurns]

That's "my" summary of all the Virpil comments in the various threads about the product on the DCS forum.

For a specific quote:

Hey guys - just to clarify about the VPC WarBRD and extensions.

The VPC WarBRD is designed as a desktop stick. The cam profiles and the spring strengths are designed with desktop use in mind. The max deflection angle of the VPC WarBRD is also larger due to it being designed with desktop use in mind. If you use extensions, the overall stroke length would be quite large and could lead to clearance issues. Because of this, we do not recommend using extensions.

It's not a question of strength or quality!
https://youtu.be/3BZFBUsuesY?t=103

Thanks for the quote. That is actually a decisive difference and explanation why there are two different designs. But it's imo communicated poorly on their product page and communication is everything. Why is there no notice about why exactly it's not intended for extension use if it really isn't? Not everybody is an avid DCS forum-ist following threads about Virpil hardware. Cams and springs could still be exchanged, but I imagine throw is limited by the construction.

This now raises another question: Since VKB sell what seems to be the same base with and without extensions... How do they handle the deflection? Is it just the same either way, resulting in too much throw when extended? Do they reconfigure the Gunfighter base depending on whether or not it's sold with extension? Does anybody here know?

 

[znôrt]

This now raises another question: Since VKB sell what seems to be the same base with and without extensions... How do they handle the deflection? Is it just the same either way, resulting in too much throw when extended? Do they reconfigure the Gunfighter base depending on whether or not it's sold with extension? Does anybody here know?

i guess it's all about giving choice through compatibility in all elements. while most users will have standard setups, others might have less common use cases. e.g. i prefer to use mt50 without extensions, maybe not the canonical thing but if it works for me, why not? that they don't recommend extensions on the warbrd doesn't mean they shouldn't work for someone in particular.

i agree that quote is important info and should be made clear.

 

[Zeeman]

Thanks for the quote. That is actually a decisive difference and explanation why there are two different designs. But it's imo communicated poorly on their product page and communication is everything. Why is there no notice about why exactly it's not intended for extension use if it really isn't? Not everybody is an avid DCS forum-ist following threads about Virpil hardware. Cams and springs could still be exchanged, but I imagine throw is limited by the construction.

This now raises another question: Since VKB sell what seems to be the same base with and without extensions... How do they handle the deflection? Is it just the same either way, resulting in too much throw when extended? Do they reconfigure the Gunfighter base depending on whether or not it's sold with extension? Does anybody here know?

The deflection is the same for the VKB regardless of extensions or not. There is a tech sheet somewhere that gives you the deflection in degrees.

The VKB's claim to fame is the dry clutch, which allows you to adjust the friction to make it behave more like a chopper, in particular. Once I get my rig set up for choppers, I'll buy a VKB for that purpose.

I do agree with you - but remember, these guys are from Eastern Europe, and English is not their native tongue, they are small companies, and they are basically good at engineering, not sales and marketing.

I've actually pointed out what you just said to the English speaking rep, as I think it's a very good idea that they clarify why one would want a desktop mount vs an extension and low mount.

Z...

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Well I am weak.

Couldn't take the want anymore and ordered a throttle and Delta stick...

 

[Bill Clement]

Well I am weak.

Couldn't take the want anymore and ordered a throttle and Delta stick...

Lol- I know that feeling well, my friend!

I suspect you won't feel nearly as weak when you've got your new shiny dialed in, though. It's been weeks now and I can't get over that WOW! feeling every time I use my Gunfighter...

Spoiler

You know, hardware placement fascism is entirely misplaced. For starters: It's not consistent in real aircraft. There are enough civil airliners with the pilot's stick on the pilot's left hand side, at about... desk height. For another, people's simulation setups are none of your business - nor Virpil's for that matter, although they have a somewhat higher stake in it as the party who wants to sell stuff to people.

What's stopping somebody from playing in an Airbus airliner in Prepar3D with a Constellation grip mounted on a T50 base to their left side at about desk height? Nothing. If they don't require a faithfully rebuild cockpit with original instruments and controls to enjoy the simulation and that setup feels good to them, more power to them.

But the lack of immediately visible differentiation between Virpil's bases may be an issue, because it makes choices harder for the customer while requiring Virpil to maintain production of two different products. If the T50 is supposed to be the higher end option being intended for dedicated mounts and offering tensioning por enthusiasts? It being a mere 15€ above the WarBRD tells a different story. Why would you even go for the WarBRD, if you intend to mount the base on a dedicated mount? It's virtually the same price as the T50 base after factoring in the mount adapter, but lacks the spring tensioning feature. On the other hand, it demonstrates that it's very well possible to construct a base compatible with both mounting options in an even smaller package than the T50 base. The T50's mount is also less well suited for faithful cockpit rebuilds with sticks on the florr, since it lacks mounting holes at the base's bottom. Is the deciding factor then merely whether you want to mount it on the desk or on a mount?


If you take a step back from your preconceived notions for how a stick "has" to be mounted and imagine I'm somebody who will mount the stick centrally anyway without using the Virpil mount and doesn't care for the spring tensioning - Tell me which one I should buy? The WarBRD or the T50 mount?

Or rather: Can you tell my why Virpil sells two entirely differently designed bases with largely overlapping features at virtually the same price point? Am I unreasonable in expecting a well organized company dedicated to selling high end gear to streamline their manufacturing into a single product speaking to both target audiences instead of fragmenting their production pipeline for two nearly interchangable ones with little distinction?

There may of course be the killer-feature differentiating the WarBRD from the T50 and vice versa, but I'm not seeing it and Noobifier1337 sounds like he hasn't found it either. If they run two completely separate lines of bases, I'd expect them to either have very notable different feature sets or very notable price differences. Neither seems to be the case here.

Wait, what? You're against consumers getting a choice over which gimbal they want to mount because consumers make different choices about how they want to mount their kit? :O That makes absolutely no sense at all, my dude! You might as well ask why they don't just buy out VKB, I mean, they make virtually the same grip, why would a consumer want all that confusing choice about which faux Sukhoi joystick to buy?

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Lol- I know that feeling well, my friend!

I suspect you won't feel nearly as weak when you've got your new shiny dialed in, though. It's been weeks now and I can't get over that WOW! feeling every time I use my Gunfighter...

Already felt like I had been handed cheat codes to the game with the old CH gear.

Now with VR, ok had that for two years now, virpil stick, and the MFG crosswinds It's like someone has plugged my brain into the simulation.
And I still got the cheat codes...
Yeah, I'm MFkng Neo here
I'm with Cypher, plug me in baby !

There is no doubt the Warbrd base is quality.
And honestly the only reason I'm not buying one as well, is that I'm thinking of setting up my eventual twin sticks mounted practically a foot or less above the floor and the grips on as long extensions as I get.

Basically my plan is to get an extension kit for each, already got one, mount all the lengths and find out where to build my mounts from there.
And I really like the adjustable springs, but apart from that, and that I'm sure the Warbrd uses a different CAM system I don't think there is any reason why that wouldn't work with that either.