Meh, I have no idea really.
Human beings are involved, so probably not.
Human beings are involved, so probably not.
General / Off-Topic Are Kickstarters ethical?
Deleted member 110222
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Funnily enough, the well known peripheral manufacturer Razer has a kickstarter for a new mouse. Basically a left-hand version of an existing mouse.
They'll make it... If they get $1,000,000.
$1,000,000 to flip a mouse's internals over. I call bull.
Can't give my opinion on kickstarters as a whole, but yeah, this one stinks.
They'll make it... If they get $1,000,000.
$1,000,000 to flip a mouse's internals over. I call bull.
Can't give my opinion on kickstarters as a whole, but yeah, this one stinks.
If you consider kickstarting anything as an investment, it doesn't make kickstarter shady, but it does mean you're a fool.
If you consider any money given as a donation without tax benefit, but a chance to get a product at a heavily discounted price, then it's more like gambling.
Personally, i'm not a fan of it, and agree, if your company wants capital, issue bonds/stocks.
If you consider any money given as a donation without tax benefit, but a chance to get a product at a heavily discounted price, then it's more like gambling.
Personally, i'm not a fan of it, and agree, if your company wants capital, issue bonds/stocks.
It's sad that this comment is so true and apt.
I do not like the principle of Kickstarter.
It's too easy. The company does not take risks and the user pays the product before using it.
However I appreciated the Kickstarter for ED because I had access to the collector's box and the map of the galaxy and also the LEP.
And I knew that Frontier is a serious company
It's too easy. The company does not take risks and the user pays the product before using it.
However I appreciated the Kickstarter for ED because I had access to the collector's box and the map of the galaxy and also the LEP.
And I knew that Frontier is a serious company
"Ethical" is not a buzzword.
It may be newly politically correct in certain circles to disparage the concept. The less said, the better.
This is pretty much the entire reason companies exist. What's sad is how much we let them get away with.
Fortunately, this is only a minority of companies
The ethical nature lies with the people putting an idea to Kickstarter than the concept itself .
I have backed 13 now and only do so if the ideas are shown was well founded and researched with a realistic risk assessment.
I have not been disappointed thus far.
I know I am putting up my money with no security and no return or investment beyond the backer reward listed, and if really successful helping pay for future costs to the profit of the Kickstarter and not myself but that is clear.
One is paying a premium to be first to have a successful project even if later purchasers pay much less once it goes to retail.
Some ideas just prique my interest and I am happy to see them come into being even if I would not invest if I was looking for a financial investment for a return if that was an option.
I think Kickstarter allows that niche to have a better chance of becoming more than just an idea.
I have backed 13 now and only do so if the ideas are shown was well founded and researched with a realistic risk assessment.
I have not been disappointed thus far.
I know I am putting up my money with no security and no return or investment beyond the backer reward listed, and if really successful helping pay for future costs to the profit of the Kickstarter and not myself but that is clear.
One is paying a premium to be first to have a successful project even if later purchasers pay much less once it goes to retail.
Some ideas just prique my interest and I am happy to see them come into being even if I would not invest if I was looking for a financial investment for a return if that was an option.
I think Kickstarter allows that niche to have a better chance of becoming more than just an idea.
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
dunno... no one forces anyone to put money in, and some stuff simply may not get made if devs could not get some cash upfront (many games barely break even so giving dividends would just not work for some games.
perhaps it is unethical for large established companies to use the KSer...... because imo the spirit of KS was to help small individuals and startups not muli million £ projects... Early Access seems a better fit for those.... but then even then, no one forces anyone to pay.
on the bright side it is a good way to get games very cheap if you want...... ie ED was £20 on KSer or you could get the game AND LTP for.... was it £80?
i will say 1 thing.. imo only people 18 or over should be able to pay into a KSer project because they are then old enough to make an informed decision on what KSer means (maybe it is like this, i dunno!)
you know what is funny (imo)
Slightly mad studios got so much flak for being unethical in making pCARS............ and yet my mate ended up getting far more back from them in terms of dividends than he actually invested.. this wasnt a KSer, and did offer money back as well as a copy of the game and yet SMS got fined for it iirc.
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not really assuming all goes to plan you get something for your money.
it is more of an interest free loan with no legal protection..... (as opposed to a pre order which is an interest free loan with some protection.
I am not sure what early access is TBH.
Sure they are ethical, it does not help that running a successful one for a game is so hard to predict, and that is where most fall down.
That.
That not so much. Issuing shares in any form is a hugely resource-intensive process that is far out of reach of projects that platforms like KS or IGG were originally meant for. Even if you somehow manage to do it outside the regular stock markets, you're still stuck with a regulatory and management nightmare that alone would require more dedicated personnel than many projects have in total.
No, but the cursory insight I've had on some occasions say that one doesn't go on the stock market lightly, and not without capital. You need robust planning, bookkeeping, and legal advice—if you fail to turn your IP into RoI, some prissy shareholders will sue you—, and generally a long-term company structure aimed at long-term
Kickstarter and its ilk were initially meant to be (not that the high-level projects indicate that any more) a platform for some people with a one-off idea to gather money and make it. Looking at my backer history, there's stuff like acquiring an embroidery machine gofundme-style (backers got embroideries as rewards) ending up at around 16kUSD campaign total, or photo books by an independent photographer netting 30–40kAUD. They did their stuff, delivered the perks, went on to do more interesting things, and everyone was happy without a long-term relationship.
That said, there are investment platforms like Fig or Indiegogo Equity (not an endorsement) that do allow proper investment.
Frontier were not listed at the time they floated Elite Dangerous though. They were at a point where frankly only a damn fool or a clairvoyant (same thing really, only difference is marketing) would have given them money as a major investor. They announced their IPO around mid-2013 when they knew they had at least the hint of a chance to keep a bunch of major stakeholders happy for any length of time.
And if you have, please send me a list of companies who are going public with disregard for what's coming to them, so I can give them a wide berth.
(edit) And while we're here and talking "ethics", presented with two options
- "Here's a thing we want to make. If enough people give us X amount of money each then we will go ahead, and when it's done you get stuff based on X", and
- "Here's a thing we want to make. You can now give us any amount of money in exchange for which you get a share in our company which so far has no product of its own and will be starting a high-risk project. If we survive and your shares are still worth anything, you can even go ahead and buy the product."
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On the crownfunding site, "GoFundMe", a woman, former TV presenter who is ruined, to launch a campaign to help her.
She asks 9965 euros and in 15 days she obtained 122 donations for a total of 7272 euros.
Apparently the campaign is not limited in the time.
There is an English translation on the project at the bottom of the Webpage, and also the video is in English
https://www.gofundme.com/dreamachine
Is it ethical ?
She asks 9965 euros and in 15 days she obtained 122 donations for a total of 7272 euros.
Apparently the campaign is not limited in the time.
There is an English translation on the project at the bottom of the Webpage, and also the video is in English
https://www.gofundme.com/dreamachine
Is it ethical ?
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