Quit the 'force people into Open Play' nonsense.

[EdzUp]

I agree with the Opening Post.

No Offense guys.
But if anyone really thinks that Players will Play something that they dont consider Fun to Play. Then Sorry but seriously that is Stupid.
This is a Game.
People Play it to have Fun.
If a Feature is not Fun. Then People dont Play it. And the attempt to Force them into Playing it by hiding other stuff behind it. Does not make this more Fun. It only makes People incredible annoyed.

People who dont want to Play Open. Dont want to Play Open.
As Simple as that.
Try to Force them into Open and the only thing you Achieve is that they will tell you to Screw yourself before they are going Home.
Being Forced to do something you dont like is one of the Top Reasons for People to Quit a Game.

It happens when Games remove PvP Protections thus Forcing People that dont want to do PvP into doing PvP.
It happens when Games hide Content behind certain Specific Actions so that Players that dont do these Actions cannot Progress anymore.
And it also happens when Games try to Force Players into a Certain Area or Gamemode by making Features unavailable in other Modes.

And all of these attempts that Games did in the past got one thing in common.
Throughout History they always. Each and Every Single Time. Did not Result in the thing that was Forced being more Succesful but only in alot of Players being Annoyed and Leaving the Game.

Naval Action did the same 2016. Removed Safezones from most Ports so that to get Certain Ressources Players had to go outside the Safezone.
They did that because the PvP Players complained that there is too little PvP.
Now did they get more PvP ?
Nope. The only thing they got is that all of the Guys usually Playing in the Safezones started to Leave the Game thus there being even less PvP.

Same with Engineers here in Elite.
They made it so that certain stuff could only be obtained by Specific Features of the Game.
And did it result in People who did not want to Scan Bases in taking their SRV and scanning Bases ?
Did it result in People who did not want to Fight in CZs in suddenly going into CZs to Fight ?
Nope. What happened was that the Community kept pestering FD that Engineers are Broken and Useless and a ton of Players simply refused to use Engineers because they refused to change their Playstyle just to get some materials.


But well. Apparently FD did not learn from that.
So what will happen is very Simple.
If FD tries to Force Players into Open by making Content only available in Open.
Players will Flame the crab out of them and will Ignore that Content or worse.

+Rep: The only way they will get people into Open PP PvP is simply get superpowers your pledged to to pay your rebuy. Or give you a ship to do it in.

Biggest issue of PP and PvP is losing ones ship if this was covered by your pledge then people would be more daring and partake in PvP. I'm not going to pay millions of credits to haul the pledges stuff across space with a risk of getting killed by a PvP encounter for a measly few hundred creds

 

[Aaron T]

I feel that I owe you an apology. You've made a bold prediction to rail against an idea that not a single developer has ever proposed, perhaps because you've confused the terms PvP and Powerplay.

It was precipitous of me to ask for evidence in support of your position when indeed your very position itself is so nebulous and ill-defined that it could never have been substantiated in the first place.

Please don't allow our differences to further distract you from your apparent hobby of evaluating the bare arms of our nation's former chief executive.

It's all good, just don't let it happen again, lol.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Then let me give Advice of the same Manner.
If you cant deal with it that other People mix in on you making silly statements about how people not sharing your taste in games should leave the Game.
I dont think that Forums like this are your thing. Maybe you should just Quit using them

Thank you for your advice.

I have chosen not to take it.

 

[znôrt]

Pls dont take Statements out of Context and then Answer them like the Remaining Post didnt happen.
Assuming this attempt at misleading others about what I actually said I would suggest you Try reading properly.
If it actually was an Attempt at misleading the Statement I would ask you dont do that. Its rude and on top entirely meaningless.

funny that i just posted the line of quotes of this particular conversation, where it was clearly evident that you are who is misleading it, and you reported it and it got 'moderated' (probably for including a meme? go figure). let's try without. anyway, so that you know, the attentive reader is still able to trace back quotes with a simple click. so make your agument and stop accusing others of what you yourself are the only one around doing.

 

[Burke]

Berk

lol. You mad?

Stop trolling sunleader hes giving you good helpful advice.

 

[znôrt]

Stop trolling sunleader hes giving you good helpful advice.

which he could use himself. for the sake of clarity (and be taken seriously), care to show how exactly you think Cari is trolling Sunleader? or are you trolling yourself?

 

[Misty_Dark]

I agree with the Opening Post.

But if anyone really thinks that Players will Play something that they dont consider Fun to Play. Then Sorry but seriously that is Stupid.
This is a Game.
People Play it to have Fun.
If a Feature is not Fun. Then People dont Play it. And the attempt to Force them into Playing it by hiding other stuff behind it. Does not make this more Fun. It only makes People incredible annoyed.

So if people do not do stuff they do not think is fun... then why do we have all those people here crying their eyes out of how some parts of the game is no fun at all, and YET, they still keep doing it... you know, the part that was not fun, the "hiddeous" part, the grindy part, etc, etc... One thing is for sure, those people are NOT using the word fun or any similar word to describe that part of the game. And as evident, many if those, by their own comments, are doing this, and here you are telling us, that they do not do it... because it is not fun.


So make up you mind. because you can't make a game that is fun for everyone in everything. So there will always be people who dislike certain parts of a game, or the game entirely, but those should hopefully have moved on to another game, that they hopefully enjoy and have fun playing.

lol. You mad?

Stop trolling sunleader hes giving you good helpful advice.

Why should she? You certainly ignores advice given to you....

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Sunleader’s was essentially, ‘Go away.’ Not very useful, especially if we’re trying to bridge the differences between so many players around here.

Elite’s a big game with a lot of ways to play. For me, I’ve grown tired of the Modes debate. Do I think Open is the superior experience and more players would see their gameplay enriched by playing in it? Absolutely!

But hey, it ain’t gonna bother me anymore if someone prefers a different mode.

 

[Sunleader]

Thank you for your advice.

I have chosen not to take it.

Glad you dont
Because I dont really think it would be right way for things like that
I just hope it also at least for a Second made you think about why I dont think you should Advice others about this Game not being for them just because you dont like how they Play it

So if people do not do stuff they do not think is fun... then why do we have all those people here crying their eyes out of how some parts of the game is no fun at all, and YET, they still keep doing it... you know, the part that was not fun, the "hiddeous" part, the grindy part, etc, etc... One thing is for sure, those people are NOT using the word fun or any similar word to describe that part of the game. And as evident, many if those, by their own comments, are doing this, and here you are telling us, that they do not do it... because it is not fun.


So make up you mind. because you can't make a game that is fun for everyone in everything. So there will always be people who dislike certain parts of a game, or the game entirely, but those should hopefully have moved on to another game, that they hopefully enjoy and have fun playing.



Why should she? You certainly ignores advice given to you....

I actually explained it several times already but oh well
People which are Attached to the Game because the Remaining Game is Fun to them (or was Fun to them before a Change)
They will usually Force themselves to give it a Try.
Thing is this will last in good cases 2-3 Months before they Leave Frustrated.

Thats why I always say that PP will die within some Months. And not PP would die Instantly
Same is True for Forums. If People dislike something. They will usually first Complain about it and bear with it for a while.
Thing is. If you go through the Forum and Check Complaints from last Year. You will notice that quite alot of the People Complaining there are no longer here.

Sunleader’s was essentially, ‘Go away.’ Not very useful, especially if we’re trying to bridge the differences between so many players around here.

Elite’s a big game with a lot of ways to play. For me, I’ve grown tired of the Modes debate. Do I think Open is the superior experience and more players would see their gameplay enriched by playing in it? Absolutely!

But hey, it ain’t gonna bother me anymore if someone prefers a different mode.

My Advice was an Irony Mate.

Cari earlier Adviced someone that "this Game is not for him."

(Full Post here)

You want everything now and are willing to cheat your way out of setbacks.

I'll say this as nice as I possibly can - I don't think this is the game for you.

The Reason being that Cari did not like the way he Played it and how he Complained about the annoying Grind he has to do to get to the Fun Parts of the Game.

I take Offense to this kind of Advice. Because I dont think its Right to tell others to not Play a Game just because you dont like how they Play or why they Play it.
Everyone has to know for himself what Parts of a Game he likes and which he dont.
And I dont think anyone should be Adviced to leave the Game just because he comes to the Forum to Complain about a Part of the Forum.

So when Cari Complained that I am intruding on a Discussion between her and someone else. I could not resist but take the Irony of it.
This is a Forum. It is to be Expected that others will get Involved and that others will Disagree with you.
So Ironically I adviced her that this Forum might not be something for her



As for the Mode.
Well thats your Taste. Not gonna Argue with that
After all your the one who Decides what you Like.
Thing is just. Pls dont try to Decide it for others.
There isnt such a thing as Superior Experience for Everyone.
While something might Feel Awesome for you giving you the Happiest Day alife.
For another Person it might be so Annoying that even just thinking about it makes em puke

In my case. If I want PvP Fights I will usually Play other Games usually Games were Matches are Fought like Fractured Space. Where I dont need to Worry about losing my Ship and where I dont need to Fly around looking for Enemies.
If I want to Fight I want to Fight. And If I dont want to Fight I dont want to Fight
So I dislike Open mode where I might be unable to find a Fight when looking for one while at the same time it might happen that I am forced to Fight when I am not Interested in it
But thats me. If you like the Thrill of not knowing when there might be a Fight and thus Love the Experience of Staying on Guard to deal with Unexpected Encounters. Hey Congratulations. I am happy you like it ^^
Just dont try to force it on me or others pls. Thanks in Advance ^^


Greetz Sun

 

[Burke]

I dont think its Right to tell others to not Play a Game just because you dont like how they Play or why they Play it.
Everyone has to know for himself what Parts of a Game he likes and which he dont.
And I dont think anyone should be Adviced to leave the Game just because he comes to the Forum to Complain about a Part of the Forum

Online bullying is a scourge and i thank you for your fair and even handed words.

 

[rp198419]

You keep hearing the disappointed PvPers who make Open so toxic that they ran everyone else off, thinking they actually represent a significant proportion of your player base, then you start tiptoeing around it (seriously? Your inflexible, overzealous filter stops me from saying the other half of blank footing?), putting one paw out, testing the waters...

And every time you do, all the players who are actually enjoying the game rather than complaining in the forums take a break to tell you they're gonna quit if you follow through.

So quit thinking about it. Table it. Shelve it. We're not gonna change over time, we're not gonna gradually become more accepting of being forced to choose between going Open and getting sidelined. You Will Not fill Open Play up by gradually ramping up the discrimination. We're already upset by the way you've slanted things towards Open. Yes, we have noticed. We are grumbling to ourselves. There is a limit, and I am holding back on merchandise purchases I was considering making because I know you're planning to do it again even though you've decided to stop short of actually making Powerplay Open-only. So just STOP already. Quit it. Let it GO. The upset, overly-verbal PvPers are a tiny minority, NOT as significant as they think they are to your income.

All you'll do is lose players by the thousands and disappoint them by even more thousands, and Open will still be just as Empty.

I'd rep you...but for some reason I can't.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I take Offense to this kind of Advice. Because I dont think its Right to tell others to not Play a Game just because you dont like how they Play or why they Play it.

Telling people not to play a game they say they don't like is something different entirely.
You are misrepresenting the situation.
That is pretty dishonest.

Just dont try to force it on me or others pls.

What exactly do you think is being "forced"?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Online bullying is a scourge and i thank you for your fair and even handed words.

Hahahahaha!


What utter nonsense.

 

[znôrt]

What exactly do you think is being "forced"?

common sense and a minimum maturity required to play games. to no avail, it seems.

i'm out.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

The alpha and omega of Cari's objection was about 1) Burke's expectation/demand that he not be challenged in the course of his time playing Elite, and 2) his apparent willingness to cheat by combat logging to avoid negative consequences. That's it. If you had a shred of integrity you'd join her in such.

That you've managed to miss that and instead launch series of unrelated rants rather speaks for itself, doesn't it?

 

[Chrystoph]

I believe that the problem is that we actually have too much sandbox, and Frontier is trying to find motivation and confusing pointless conflict as content.

After all, that is what the PaP (against, because versus includes the concept of competition which they don't want) crowd insist on euphemising themselves as, Emergent Content.

Well, players ARE the only thing that can generate content as fast as other players can blow through it. Without padding and repetition, anyway.

See, there are multiple problems with this post. First and foremost, a moment of conflict is NOT content. That is nothing more than another encounter with an overpowered ship, and the galaxy is full of NPCs that do exactly the same thing. PaP events, that's just rolling a 1 on the random encounter table. They aren't driven by factions, powers, or legality. It doesn't provide a sense of achievement, the victims don't enjoy it, and the disproven statement that it is a Dangerous universe is just a rationalization. The only difference is that NPCs don't have malice in mind when they do it.

Secondly, content, such as the Thargoid STORYLINE, doesn't depend on the random occurrence of encountering another player; it is reproducible.

Finally, the nonsense that only PaP players can generate meaning discludes, as one example, things like exploration expeditions. Conflict, while important to the meta of the game, actually has the LEAST meaning in relation to the concept of content.

Effectively, the entire concept is a lying, both to the community, and, to themselves, about the validity, and the value, of their chosen style of play. Stop rationalizing and at least own up that your chosen methodology is founded in bullying other players for your own enjoyment.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Even though I think that's a gross exaggeration and not fair to some of our PvPers it certainly addresses the main culprit for why we have this sort of discussions at all. In that sense, have a rep.

I think that gross exaggeration and unfairness is the bigger problem.
Killing other players is part of the game design.
It's not bullying by any stretch, but conversely, posts like that are just crying wolf.
That is a form of bullying in itself!

LOL

That you would give positive rep despite that acknowledgement is really funny!
You are more concerned with unjustifiably hurt feelz than blatant unfairness and exaggeration.

Why am I not surprised?

 

[Sunleader]

I think that gross exaggeration and unfairness is the bigger problem.
Killing other players is part of the game design.
It's not bullying by any stretch, but conversely, posts like that are just crying wolf.
That is a form of bullying in itself!

LOL

That you would give positive rep despite that acknowledgement is really funny!
You are more concerned with unjustifiably hurt feelz than blatant unfairness and exaggeration.

Why am I not surprised?

Why am I not surprised that another Griefer/RPK would come up with the usual "You can do it and dont get Banned for it so its clearly the purpose of the Game" Bullcrab.
By this Logic of yours. Combat Logging would be part of Game Design. And complaining about Combat Logging would be the same form of Bullying.
Also if we follow this Logic that Actions allowed in the Game are by Design. Then the entire Idea of moving PP to Open would be Bullying. Because the Complaint that Players in Solo or PG are allowed to affect the BGS is also Bullying. Because thats also by Design.

 

[Chrystoph]

I think that gross exaggeration and unfairness is the bigger problem.
Killing other players is part of the game design.
It's not bullying by any stretch, but conversely, posts like that are just crying wolf.
That is a form of bullying in itself!

LOL

That you would give positive rep despite that acknowledgement is really funny!
You are more concerned with unjustifiably hurt feelz than blatant unfairness and exaggeration.

Why am I not surprised?

The really sad thing here is that you recognize that I am referring to a specific subset of players, then use disambiguation to try to shame me for something that I wasn't talking about in the first place. As far as I am concerned, All that does is tell me that you know your argument is invalid and won't admit it.

As far as hurt feelings, I have never been the victim of PaP. I've encountered one player when I was farming for Mining Lances, and we both took our lumps. My concern is not that my feelings got hurt, it is the fact that the only people that think this behavior is good are other people of the same nature. For the rest of the potential players, you are nothing but a bad reputation for the game because word gets around that seal clubbing is acceptable, that blowing someone up in the mail slot by ramming through them doesn't get punished and actually gets appauded because a youtube video was made of it, etc. I guarantee that people look at that and say, Pass.

Then, there is the whole element of pure malice, like UA bombing a station that is the target of an expedition to honor a player dying of a disease. The salt miners tried to call that Emergent Content by giving people the incentive to restore the station, but, if you go back and look at the time line of events, they were very careful to wait until after the expedition was under way.

As a result, we have those self same people complaining that they don't have targets and demanding that the people they have run out of Open be forced back in.

Using fallacious arguments like the opportunity to combat them give a thin veneer of legitimacy to what doesn't matter in the first place.

• PowerPlay - except that attacking people that aren't IN PP is the norm
• PowerPlay: Defending contested systems - except that instancing doesn't guarantee the encounter will occur or be maintained
• PowerPlay: Defending contested systems - except that there is no method to determine where the event is happening
• PowerPlay: Defending contested systems - except that Time Zones mean they may not even be on the game when you are there to defend

Frontier lets PaP get away with this because they don't want to police players, but, the rest of us are neither naive nor stupid enough to not recognize that this is the action of someone that can only be "bad" when they know there will be no consequences which is the classic mindset of a bully. They choose targets that cannot fight back and make their attacks in such a way as to avoid official censure.

 

[Lateralus]

So what's the suggestion then? 'Shut up everyone' ..?

PS: Forced open play for all! ..some of you might even git gud [haha]