Not IF but WHY discussion around modes in the BGS

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
the100thmonkey said:
This only happens when (and because) you have no friends.
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Cold: the air and water flowing.
Hard: the land we call our home.
Push to keep the dark from coming,
Feel the weight of what we owe.

This: the song of sons and daughters,
Hide the heart of who we are.
Making peace to build our future,
Strong, united, working 'till we fall.

Cold: the air and water flowing.
Hard: the land we call our home.
Push to keep the dark from coming,
Feel the weight of what we owe.

This: the song of sons and daughters,
Hide the heart of who we are.
Making peace to build our future,
Strong, united, working 'till we fall.

And we all lift, and we're all adrift together, together. Through the cold mist, 'till we're lifeless together, together.
 

Screemonster

Screemonster
The thing about the OOBGS crowd it that it essentially boils down to "only my method of enjoying myself is valid".

There are a lot of small groups and PMFs out there, set up for a small group of private group players with no interest in adversarial interactions with other players to play the BGS game in their own little corner of the galaxy somewhere. No interest in grand conquest or anything like that, just having a little system and faction to themselves to they can play co-op PvE within that system and leave others well alone.

And there are people in this thread who would snatch that away from those people because... reasons. Forgive me if I'm not convinced that their desire to play one game means that other people shouldn't be allowed to play another.
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
Jane Turner
Lucius-Darcia said:
Yes once because i'm allied of spoken faction anf not always there as same as i was 2 months away from the game (check my Inara credit grows :D).
Such things happen, but still i think that this would be a great solution.


To the topic of "attackers" and "defenders"
Usually a defender has 2 options to react to an attack.
1. Working to counter the results. or
2. Kill or push back the attacker.

In Elite there is at the moment just number 1 available if the attacker hides in solo. Doesn't sound right and makes conflicts tedious and grindy as hell since the attacker dictates the gameplay.
There would also be options to play hide and seek in open and also some other aspects, that prevent a meeting but THIS would be the fun part of it. Knowing that there is a chance to find the attacker and beat him out of system rather than just pure trade-grind or pirate-kill-turn-in-every-single-bounty-because-transactions-grind :|
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I play in open precisely because I like the random chance encounters like the one we had recently. I think you were the only one there in anything approaching a PvP capable ship. Personally I have no interest in staged PvP and I love the fact that to be effective in the BGS you have to run builds that would get you toasted if you did go toe to toe with a competent PvP player/build. I was carrying a fuel scoop, FSD booster cargo, double scanners no armour, non-engineered lightweight hull, Limpets and a controller. Like most of this game you have to make choices as to what ship to fly and what to do with your time. I can't think of anything more tedious than all conflict being resolved via engineered deathships PvP though.

I doubt that anyone begrudges you to the opportunity to have PvP contribute to the BGS. The issue come when there are suggestions which exclude anyone who doesn't want to indulge in PvP or make PvP the primary/only way to affect outcomes and reality completely breaks down when you suggest that going open only is a solution.

Firstly instancing and platforms means that there is no such thing as one open without a complete redesign of the game architecture and a miracle from Sony. Secondly, even if we suspend reality for a second and assume a single open instance is both possible and desirable, there will still be many more time effective ways of "defending" than trying to take out incoming clean ships intent on mission running. It would require a complete redesign of the game mechanics. So a lot of changes affecting everyone for what is a minority

It might be that Power Play is the only part of the game will ever have any relevance [for PvP], but its worth exploring what might be acceptable to the the entire community. That said, the status quo is fine, it allows everyone to contribute but does allow consensual but frivolous PvP.
 
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Sylveria

Sylveria
Jane Turner said:
I doubt that anyone begrudges you to the opportunity to have PvP contribute to the BGS.

The issue come when there are suggestions which exclude anyone who doesn't want to indulge in PvP or make PvP the primary/only way to affect outcomes and reality completely breaks down when you suggest that going open only is a solution.
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Exactly this.

And make no mistake, this is exactly what some proponents are aiming for. They bought the game with a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of the structure, thinking it was all about universal "domination" based on PvP, rather than the reality... which is it has absolutely no focus on PvP, but rather interaction with the universe itself upon multiple levels of choice. Some are clearly upset because they cannot control other's gameplay- nor force Player versus Player interactions, lacking a basic understanding that this game was never designed to do that from the outset.

The mode argument is fundamental in this regard because the modes are what prevent forced PvP interactions... that's why it always circles back around. Unfortunately, it's completely unavoidable in respect to context when discussing limiting another's gameplay in Elite Dangerous- because this game was never designed to allow player/player limitation, it was designed with choice in mind for each individual.
 

_Flin_

_Flin_
Did I ever mention that when there'd be "Open Only" in the BGS, the big groups would patrol the attacked systems with their dedicated PvP wings and just kill anyone who shows up? So they'd win even more, and faster?

Who really thinks he'd be able to "defend" their system better?
You could be attacked better.
And more ruthless.
And even less fun.
 

[Diplomacy] Carnegie

[Diplomacy] Carnegie
_Flin_ said:
Did I ever mention that when there'd be "Open Only" in the BGS, the big groups would patrol the attacked systems with their dedicated PvP wings and just kill anyone who shows up? So they'd win even more, and faster?

Who really thinks he'd be able to "defend" their system better?
You could be attacked better.
And more ruthless.
And even less fun.
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"Securing our borders" == "Destroying our neighbors"
 

Sylveria

Sylveria
Nicholas Nack said:
"I have come here to win the chess tournament"
"What do you MEAN I'm not allowed to challenge gary kasparov to single combat for the chess prize, I have to beat him at CHESS instead?"
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Exactly. :)

"But its ALL PvP!!!!!"

So, every game out there that involves competition between other people requires MMA style fighting matches and gladiatorial knife-fighting...

Including Golf, right? Next we'll have NASCAR drivers getting out of their seats to shoot at each other.

Yeah, sorry not having it. I'm not compelled by the hyperbole either.
 

WorldsGreatestForumDad

Banned
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Sylveria said:
Exactly. :)

"But its ALL PvP!!!!!"

So, every game out there that involves competition between other people requires MMA style fighting matches and gladiatorial knife-fighting...

Including Golf, right? Next we'll have NASCAR drivers getting out of their seats to shoot at each other.

Yeah, sorry not having it. I'm not compelled by the hyperbole either.
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There is a huge difference in a race. And 2 player factions fighting in a space game over territory with guns.

Cut the crap.
 

Sylveria

Sylveria
That90skid said:
There is a huge difference in a race. And 2 player factions fighting in a space game over territory with guns.

Cut the crap.
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You really need. To learn how to use. Periods correctly. In a sentence.

Crap is all you're offering. No one's buying it.

Game over.
 

Sylveria

Sylveria
That90skid said:
You're right. Not with modes in the way.
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^ And the truth of your hyperbole finally exposes itself.

This has been your entire goal all along- not PP, not the BGS.

You simply can't stand the fact that others actually have a choice of how they play- and it burns you up inside.

The hatred. Give into it. Good, good....
 

WorldsGreatestForumDad

Banned
WorldsGreatestForumDad
DrewCarnegie said:
There's also the fact that we don't have any territory either.
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Seriously wrong in that department. But live in denial if you wish.

You don't have territory though because fdev dropped a pmf in yours.

Remember how upset you were about that?

How many times are these forums going to back themselves into a corner without thinking?
 

WorldsGreatestForumDad

Banned
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Sylveria said:
^ And the truth of your hyperbole finally exposes itself.

This has been your entire goal all along- not PP, not the BGS.

You simply can't stand the fact that others actually have a choice of how they play- and it burns you up inside.

The hatred. Give into it. Good, good....
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Not at all. I think you're reaching pretty far here.

If I just wanted to grief people I can do it all day everyday.

I want a level and equal playing field for player interaction. Balance over objectives.

You can take your hyperbole and shove it.
 
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