The Star Citizen Thread v9

[Cobra1984]

The only fair comparision when it comes to Star Citizen, and the only comparison that means anything, is the comparison between what Chris Roberts has been selling and what his studios have been producing.

That'll take all of 5mins and then you can get on with playing actual games made by competent developers.

That OCS video has left me with no doubt whatsoever that CIG have neither the technology nor the talent to deliver the merest fraction of what Chris Roberts has sold, and Lando and his 3 QA guys there will be walking back expectations and lengthening schedules and trimming roadmaps until the day the project is shuttered to rapturous applause.

 

[Cobra1984]

I could never call Rebel Galaxy 3D. I don't think there's movement in the 3rd axis at all? I've actually owned the game since it launched but decided it wasn't for me.

Perhaps 2.5D?

On topic: Of course CIG aspires to more. Movement on all axes and 6 DoF for a start.

Rebel Galaxy Outlaw is 6dof in a full 3d environment, with inertia and mass and working physics.

And cockpits you can see out of.

It's already ahead of Star Citizen. You should watch the video, it should be on the radar of everyone in this, our favorite genre of space videogames that exist.

 

[Tippis]

I could never call Rebel Galaxy 3D. I don't think there's movement in the 3rd axis at all?

There is.

On topic: Of course CIG aspires to more. Movement on all axes and 6 DoF for a start.

Aspirations are not reality, and based on the abysmal state they've left the flight model in after 7 years of development, I'm not entirely convinced they even do aspire for more. So far, they only seem to actually go for plodding obtuseness and seemingly intentional bad design — in movement, in UI, in overall gameplay — all in the pursuit of… something that they should probably have conceptualised back in 2011 and explicitly articulated in 2012, but which is instead left almost wholly obfuscated by meaningless buzzwords.

 

[VidarSnipes]

And cockpits you can see out of.

That's debatable, check out the video at this timestamp: https://youtu.be/wKoJKe_yKQI?t=373

 

[DLewth]

I always find such comparisons a bit disappointing, tbh. Rebel Galaxy isn't even 3D.

It's confusing because because they reused the name. The original Rebel Galaxy was rendered in 3D, but 2D in terms of movement: It played a bit like a tank game. The new game that people are referring to is Rebel Galaxy Outlaw, which is full 3D.

 

[MTBFritz]

I could never call Rebel Galaxy 3D. I don't think there's movement in the 3rd axis at all? I've actually owned the game since it launched but decided it wasn't for me.

Perhaps 2.5D?

On topic: Of course CIG aspires to more. Movement on all axes and 6 DoF for a start.

I dont believe you can fly so you are 2D as well? Or cars? I believe you get my drift.....

Of course it is 3D visually. Thats what the term expresses. People complain about the inability to change the z axis but thats a different thing.

@Tippis

Rebel Galaxy or Rebel Galaxy Outlaws, one has it the other does not.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

There is.

So the new (unreleased) version does. Cool. Might try it out after reviews.

Aspirations are not reality, and based on the abysmal state they've left the flight model in after 7 years of development, I'm not entirely convinced they even do aspire for more. So far, they only seem to actually go for plodding obtuseness and seemingly intentional bad design — in movement, in UI, in overall gameplay — all in the pursuit of… something that they should probably have conceptualised back in 2011 and explicitly articulated in 2012, but which is instead left almost wholly obfuscated by meaningless buzzwords.

Since I've played the free fly weekends, I have to agree with everything you say here, except that I DO believe they aspire to more. But yes, that doesn't convert to reality.

 

[Tippis]

Rebel Galaxy or Rebel Galaxy Outlaws, one has it the other does not.

Maybe, but Navigare was talking about Outlaws. So it's all full 3D in every way.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

I dont believe you can fly so you are 2D as well? Or cars? I believe you get my drift.....

Of course it is 3D visually. Thats what the term expresses. People complain about the inability to change the z axis but thats a different thing.

@Tippis

Rebel Galaxy or Rebel Galaxy Outlaws, one has it the other does not.

I chose my words carefully. Rebel Galaxy is indeed 3D but I could never call Rebel Galaxy 3D. It's a a personal thing. If I said to a friend, hey buy Rebel Galaxy, it's a great 3D Space Game, they would (and should) soundly thwapp me with a wet fish for completely misrepresenting what it is. What it really is is naval warships in space. Most 3D games, like Skyrim, have some 3rd axis movement, climbing mountains, jumping, etc. Not so Rebel Galaxy.

Ofc I'm talking about Rebel Galaxy, not the unreleased Rebel Galaxy Outlaw.

 

[jmp470]

Tried watching the star wars game. Yuck. Will have to wait and see.

But, just like ED, SC and most space sims. Can someone please clean the windows. I hate that effect.

 

[TenakaFurey]

I always find such comparisons a bit disappointing, tbh. Rebel Galaxy isn't even 3D. That it is possible to release relatively straight-forward and very basic games in a much shorter time than something that aims much higher isn't special or surprising.

I think that's part of the problem.

There are plenty of people here and elsewhere who do not believe CIGs attempt at a game is anything but a straight forward and very basic game.

What do they need? Procedural generation for planets. That's been around for decades. FPS combat. Ditto. They even licensed an engine famed for its FPS capabilities. They need simple game mechanics, a working flight model...and very little else. What should be taking up all the development time is content...not infrastructure. You can't even argue that CIG are doing it all together because we have games like NMS right now.

CIG, at best, are spending a lot of time and effort, and a huge amount of money, reinventing the wheel. There's nothing special about Star Citizen the game, nothing really epic about the promises it has made.

Well...except one. Handcrafting content takes a lot of time and CIGs promise to create 600 worlds and more moons and bases and asteroids spread across 150 systems could easily have taken CIG years. Even using procgen systems as a starting point, handcrafting that number of systems and planets - you could spend years on such a task.

But things like the flight model, engine, combat system and so on? Those should be done and dusted within about three years. Because even combined, they are nothing special or out of the ordinary or innovative.

 

[Eriseley]

I think that's part of the problem.

There are plenty of people here and elsewhere who do not believe CIGs attempt at a game is anything but a straight forward and very basic game.

What do they need? Procedural generation for planets. That's been around for decades. FPS combat. Ditto. They even licensed an engine famed for its FPS capabilities. They need simple game mechanics, a working flight model...and very little else. What should be taking up all the development time is content...not infrastructure. You can't even argue that CIG are doing it all together because we have games like NMS right now.

CIG, at best, are spending a lot of time and effort, and a huge amount of money, reinventing the wheel. There's nothing special about Star Citizen the game, nothing really epic about the promises it has made.

Well...except one. Handcrafting content takes a lot of time and CIGs promise to create 600 worlds and more moons and bases and asteroids spread across 150 systems could easily have taken CIG years. Even using procgen systems as a starting point, handcrafting that number of systems and planets - you could spend years on such a task.

But things like the flight model, engine, combat system and so on? Those should be done and dusted within about three years. Because even combined, they are nothing special or out of the ordinary or innovative.

I can only think, even if your model is hand-crafting systems, you need a game-system that lets you construct things faster than this. At this rate, whenever they finally release a thing, people will exhaust it in months and it will take years for new additions, just like ED.

 

[metatheurgist]

So, scheduling conference set for the 12th of October.

In the meantime both parties must work together to produce a plan for discovery. Failure to do so or cooperate can result in dismissal for the plaintiff or sanctions for the defendant. In the case of disputes there are proceedures for handling those.

Ok, so, there might be some fun along the way, but 12th Oct looks like next date we will hear something of substance.

So, that's the scheduling conference, but looking at the schedule after that, there is going to be a lot of waiting. They have up to 90 days after that to make amended pleadings and stuff.

One thing that isn't clear for me, there is meant to be a final pre-trial conference 4 weeks before actual trial. There are many dates there the longest being at least 14 weeks before the FPTC. So, even if these dates kick in right after the scheduling conference, we won't be likely to see a trial this year.

However, we might get to hear something from discovery.... maybe?

Still way more fast paced and exciting than SC development. For once, we're going to see Chris Roberts stick to a schedule. I hope Crytek are feeling like someone that had a company try to steal their IP, dodge their contractual obligations by switching to "I can't believe it's not Cryengine", then bad mouth them in public. I hope they're right and truly steamed.

 

[TenakaFurey]

I can only think, even if your model is hand-crafting systems, you need a game-system that lets you construct things faster than this. At this rate, whenever they finally release a thing, people will exhaust it in months and it will take years for new additions, just like ED.

Gamers will ALWAYS consume content faster than it can be created. Handcrafted or fully procgen, it doesn't matter. Content is needed, content is important, but content needs to be married to engaging gameplay and good game design.

Unfortunately, CIG seem intent on destroying their end game right now by selling ships, which in turn removes one of the key drivers in this sort of game...acquiring new, more powerful gear.

 

[Eriseley]

Gamers will ALWAYS consume content faster than it can be created. Handcrafted or fully procgen, it doesn't matter. Content is needed, content is important, but content needs to be married to engaging gameplay and good game design.

Unfortunately, CIG seem intent on destroying their end game right now by selling ships, which in turn removes one of the key drivers in this sort of game...acquiring new, more powerful gear.

I keyed out on CIG when ships were so pay-to-play, honestly. No space game is perfect, sadly. I'm a Kerbal person above Elite even, but there's just no perfect space game. Sad to hear CIG has gone south so fast.

Zeroing in on the Kerbal vs. Elite thing, Kerbal got away with SO MUCH by letting people construct their own completely doofy ships (this is my favorite pastime). I'm glad Elite is more constrained, and like the game plenty as its presented as more structured space trucking. CIG needs...probably a real solar system simulation to keep up. Make me feel like an Expanse Belter.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

CIG, at best, are spending a lot of time and effort, and a huge amount of money, reinventing the wheel.

Hah, that reminds me of the OCS RTV where this moment happened:

Lando: "Now, what we are wanting to do with this is nothing new...."

I'm like amazed, for once CIG not trying to claim they are doing something never been done before!!!!

Lando continues: ".... but we are doing it on a scale that has never been attempted before"

And faith in CIGs ability to blow their own trumpet restored

CIG never stop to consider, the reason other companies haven't done these things before is because it either just not possible with current tech or they have done skunkwork test of these things and it is far too problematic or the operating costs are so high you can't actually turn a profit.

 

[n4p0l3on]

I thought rebel galaxy outlaw is just 2.5D, thanks for the enlighten, however, it's still immediately remind me of star point gemini series, rebel galaxy outlaw looks like a 1st person version of star point gemini warlord and such, but now I'm very interested with it knowing that it'll be 3D.

 

[Viajero]

Thread in reddit about the latest news on the discovery hearing in October: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize..._vs_crytek_judge_has_set_date_for_scheduling/

And the top 2 responses are all there is to it really

- But.... Will there be a livestream?
- You'll need to buy a ticket for that.

 

[Cmdr-Wotherspoon]

I really enjoy looking back on the promises of previous years. The Gamescom 2017 presentation, with the Constellation Aquila, the Idris and the Face Rig technology, also the immersive 3D sound, was wonderful, even if The Mission Giver didn't initially turn up, the game crashed meaning the the demo needed to be restarted, and the wheels literally fell off the Land Cruiser when it attempted to board the Idris. There were also some amazing one-shot kills.

If you don't have time to re-watch it all, this match report is pretty good.
https://www.pcinvasion.com/star-citizen-gamescom-2017-event-report

Edit: The reason I sought this out was I was wondering if anyone had worked out why Chris Roberts kept saying agitatedly "Paul, please get off the loading screen. Get off the loading screen" when the game was reloading following the crash. I haven't managed to find a reason.

More edit: Reading back through this thread, I see that Citizencon is 10th October and the next court hearing is 12th October. Sounds like a busy week for CIG, RSI and Crytek.

 

[lysan]

Hah, that reminds me of the OCS RTV where this moment happened:

Lando: "Now, what we are wanting to do with this is nothing new...."

I'm like amazed, for once CIG not trying to claim they are doing something never been done before!!!!

Lando continues: ".... but we are doing it on a scale that has never been attempted before"

And faith in CIGs ability to blow their own trumpet restored

CIG never stop to consider, the reason other companies haven't done these things before is because it either just not possible with current tech or they have done skunkwork test of these things and it is far too problematic or the operating costs are so high you can't actually turn a profit.

You can always cut corners, like Arma does when you enter a truck or airplane. You simulate what really need a good situation the rest can be more simple. With that in mind you can do it today, and it is profitable if you can manage your project.