Does Frontier hate explorers?

[mossfoot]

I guess there is one way to resolve this.

Frontier please kindly provide the following stats.

The number of elite pilots in;

Trading
Combat
Exploration

Not really an accurate scale at all, given that it might be harder or easier to achieve one rank or another AND the fact that each has exploits to make reaching that rank easier that may be known to disproportionate numbers of people in each category, or were used a lot at one point and then patched so not everyone even had a chance to use them, etc...

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

The engineer power creep needs to be fed and so combat is 1st priority.

 

[WR3ND]

I don't think so. I think they might just have a difficult time understanding and devolving meaningful progression and gameplay for it. The meta progression of the game and ways of interacting with it do seem more heavenly combat focused. That being said, the galaxy sim is a huge bonus for exploration as it is, and I hope it is fleshed out more in the future, both in what all sorts of phenomena are out there to be discovered and compelling ways of interacting with them.

I think exploration is actually a rather significant aspect of the game that draws many players to it. Speaking for myself at least, it's definitely one of the main attractions of the game for me, that and the sci-fi spaceship pilot setting.

 

[kofeyh]

I guess there is one way to resolve this.

Frontier please kindly provide the following stats.

The number of elite pilots in;

Trading
Combat
Exploration

11k jumped on gnosis. A bunch of explorers had a fit and refused to board because that was silly combat work and others (like about 5 or 6) left then gnosis in a huff after it jumped.

Half if not more were xeno hunters alone. A lot were ex-players hoping Frontier had finally grown a pair.

Also elite is a cumulative stat which simply tracks your threshold for repetitive action. Its meaningless. And you dont need stats to work out what most people want to do. That is where most of the effort will go.

Frontier won't publish numbers anyway because it will show the high churn rate of players starting then putting the game down.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

11k jumped on gnosis. A bunch of explorers had a fit and refused to board because that was silly combat work and others (like about 5 or 6) left then gnosis in a huff after it jumped.

Half if not more were xeno hunters alone. A lot were ex-players hoping Frontier had finally grown a pair.

Also elite is a cumulative stat which simply tracks your threshold for repetitive action. Its meaningless. And you dont need stats to work out what most people want to do. That is where most of the effort will go.

Frontier won't publish numbers anyway because it will show the high churn rate of players starting then putting the game down.

EDDiscovery shows 25 million systems have been logged by players.
That's only PC players, and only those who use the journal to track their activities - probably the majority of explorers, but still.

I'll repeat that number: 25 million systems.

Exploration is not a niche activity.

 

[avow555]

Not really an accurate scale at all, given that it might be harder or easier to achieve one rank or another AND the fact that each has exploits to make reaching that rank easier that may be known to disproportionate numbers of people in each category, or were used a lot at one point and then patched so not everyone even had a chance to use them, etc...

Hard numbers are exactly that.
It would reflect who is doing what in the game!

 

[WR3ND]

...

I don't log my discovered systems on third party tools/sites. Off the top of my head, I have around 22K so far. I couldn't say for sure whether or not most players do log their discovered systems using these tools. I'd think most active players in the community probably do, but there might just as well be many more players that aren't active in the community who don't.

 

[avow555]

11k jumped on gnosis. A bunch of explorers had a fit and refused to board because that was silly combat work and others (like about 5 or 6) left then gnosis in a huff after it jumped.

Half if not more were xeno hunters alone. A lot were ex-players hoping Frontier had finally grown a pair.

Also elite is a cumulative stat which simply tracks your threshold for repetitive action. Its meaningless. And you dont need stats to work out what most people want to do. That is where most of the effort will go.

Frontier won't publish numbers anyway because it will show the high churn rate of players starting then putting the game down.

Where do you get your numbers from.
Half the players did this or that?

I will repeat myself, where did you get the numbers of what players did during this event.


The fact is we have no reference point as what players are actively doing in this game, so perhaps the game designers could in fact give us actual numbers of what the community is actively doing in ED.
No doubt we will never find out as this company are absolutely committed to telling us nothing.

 

[kofeyh]

Hard numbers are exactly that.
It would reflect who is doing what in the game!

But those aren't hard numbers. They are a cumulative statistic. Nothing more. There are no hard numbers. Because the player base shrinks and grows across update and change.

Which ignores that a developer will spend the majority of the time on the things the majority of their players are doing. This is a trend across the entire industry because of course it is.

 

[Sylveria]

But those aren't hard numbers. They are a cumulative statistic. Nothing more. There are no hard numbers. Because the player base shrinks and grows across update and change.

Which ignores that a developer will spend the majority of the time on the things the majority of their players are doing. This is a trend across the entire industry because of course it is.

So if the majority of players spend their time doing PvE activities... that's what the developer will focus on?

 

[kofeyh]

Where do you get your numbers from.
Half the players did this or that?

I will repeat myself, where did you get the numbers of what players did during this event.


The fact is we have no reference point as what players are actively doing in this game, so perhaps the game designers could in fact give us actual numbers of what the community is actively doing in ED.
No doubt we will never find out as this company are absolutely committed to telling us nothing.

Statistics can tell you anything you want them to say. It's very evident where frontier spend most of their time. They would not do that if that wasn't where most of their players are.

Look at the forum posts of how many said they were going to explore. Versus everyone building for bear or shifting guns in. Proportionally more were expecting a fight.

Again, even if frontier published numbers, they would be claimed to have fiddled with them if it didnt tell you what you want to hear.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

I kinda feel like they hate all their players?

Smugglers got it
Then the traders
PvP always got it
Then the explorers got got.


And now, the mission runners...

 

[kofeyh]

So if the majority of players spend their time doing PvE activities... that's what the developer will focus on?

Yep. They have. Power play and PVP has had less work done than Exploration. Which is saying something.

PVE shooting is where most of the work has gone. C&P only recently changed, mind, as well.

So yes. Yes they are. We already know that though.

 

[kofeyh]

I kinda feel like they hate all their players?

Smugglers got it
Then the traders
PvP always got it
Then the explorers got got.


And now, the mission runners...

I took a break. Came back for the Gnosis and - well. I do other things now. Pop onto the forums at times to see the same old tired arguments.

Frontier desperately need some competiton to make them hungry for success again. They are working hard, but there is an element to coasting along as they aren't being pushed to beat the other guy.

 

[Lightspeed]

It is possible, of course, that the Gnosis Incident was intended to kill off those pesky explorers who were left in the game

 

[Sylveria]

Yep. They have. Power play and PVP has had less work done than Exploration. Which is saying something.

PVE shooting is where most of the work has gone. C&P only recently changed, mind, as well.

So yes. Yes they are. We already know that though.

Um, PvP has had more updates over time since the release of this game than Exploration has.

What was released that was exploration-specific, that isn't related to any other activity in the game (ahem Engineers, etc.)?

Almost everything that people claim to be "exploration" oriented was designed for another purpose entirely, from what I've seen. It's like people claiming that graphics enhancements are "exploration". Nope, everyone enjoys those same improvements regardless of activity.

PvP (combat) has had weapon expansions, improvements for offense/defense, many balance passes, etc.

I'm not even going to touch PowerPlay. It's a disaster and has been since its introduction- not to mention hotly debated as to its original intent to begin with.

 

[StuartGT]

Inara reports that of its 135,489 logged CMDRs:

• 9.9% have reached Combat Elite
• 23.1% have reached Exploration Elite
• 32.4% have reached Trade Elite
• The above percentages are not mutually exclusive, and contain many double and triple Elite CMDRs.

To reach Elite rank:

• Exploration: sell 318m+ credits worth of data.
• Trade: sell 1.05b+ credits worth of commodities.
• Combat: varies - it takes approximately 2225 experience points to go from Deadly to Elite combat ranking. This equals 1780 Elite kills, or approximately 2400 kills based on a more average distribution of ships.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I kinda feel like they hate all their players?

Smugglers got it
Then the traders
PvP always got it
Then the explorers got got.


And now, the mission runners...

Ah yes, the 2.8% of the playerbase who regularly mode-flip.
And they tell me that exploration is niche.

 

[Dutchman141]

This isn't sarcasm, I honestly do wonder sometimes if Frontier despises their sizeable exploration community?

They seem to either willfully disregard explorers or simply don't consider them. One signals neglect while the other signifies a dislike of some kind. I'm just wondering which is it?

• They implement geysers and fumeroles to find on planet surfaces but with no tools at all to find them, forcing explorers to scour planets with their eyeballs only which can take dozens of frustrating hours.
• They turn the galaxy beige for an entire year before finally fixing their mistake. (Admittedly with improvements too, though we did not regain the lost terrain details)
• They neglect improving exploration mechanics for four years, not since 1.0.
• After four years we still don't have any exploration missions in the game.
• Frontier removed Exploration CGs completely.
• Neutron Jumps were a dev mistake, and if not for the exploration community begging and pleading to keep it as a "feature" we wouldn't have them today. It never even occurred to Frontier that it might be a meaningful mechanic until then.
• They finally add heat sink synthesis, only to make it require manufactured materials, meaning you cannot replenish it at all out there on your own. They entirely forgot that heat sinks had uses beyond spamming them together with shield cells.
• They promise an Exploration Feedback Forum for the Q4 improvements but then delay it, then delay it again, and now it's postponed indefinitely with no new date at all.
• They "prioritized" the Ice Planet improvements out of 3.3 and won't answer the question if they are scheduled for a later date or completely cut from the roadmap.
• They implement Multicrew as combat only with no exploration use at all. They don't even make SRV's, a common exploration feature, compatible with Multicrew.
• Over half of the ships in Elite are combat oriented while only two are designed with exploration in mind, and ironically the most capable explorer is neither of them and is in fact a multirole ship.
• One of the "exploration" ships also has the slowest fuel scoop rate in the entire game, a key module for exploration.
• They agree to jump Jaques Station out to Beagle Point at the conclusion of the DWE, wait until lots of explorers fly there or wait around for him to arrive, but then instead jump him completely somewhere else.
• And the latest addition to the list, they have no problem usurping a Canonn exploration event into a combat only affair, at the expense of non combat explorer ships no less, while simultaneously negating any exploration gameplay from the event at all. Despite thousands of explorers flying to the Gnosis eager for a rare exploration event in the game.

As an explorer it often feels like Frontier doesn't consider the playstyle when developing the game, or when creating and managing events. It often feels like they vastly prefer the combat playstyle over exploration. I know Q4 is finally supposed to include major exploration improvements, but given Frontier's behavior regarding explorers I'm worried that their temperment will prevent them from moving this aspect of the game forward in a meaningful manner.

I really just wish Frontier was as thoughtful, considerate, and respectful towards explorers (and non combat players in general) as they were to the combat crowd. I really wish exploration would get half of the development focus and resources that combat gets.

There are three Elite ranks in the game, my hope is that someday Frontier develops with that triad in mind in a more balanced manner than they have up until now. Combat, Trading, and Exploration. The game could use a greater focus on the latter two than the former first from now on.

Pretty Please. With sugar on top. With Lavian Brandy icing smothered all around it too.

I completely agree with your post, very well formulated.
I don't hate Fdev, I'm severely disappointed and the neglected exploration is one of the reasons why.

I'm not sure they hate us but I'm pretty sure that when Q4 turns out to be a let down a lot of explorers aren't going to be very happy with Fdev.
The fact that so many people got on board the Gnosis should say something about how much people want more exploring experience in the game.
They've neglected it way to long, they say that they listen to us, right, I guess the explorers just didn't mention it enough or screamed hard enough then?
People have been asking for a deeper exploration experience for years, what do we get, three Chieftains, loads of weapons, oh and new SLFs with emphasis on F from fighter.

Q4 better be good imho.

 

[kofeyh]

Q4 is not going to save exploration. It will add many more hurdles though.