I don’t believe the 2.8% board flip statistic has been presented correctly, can FDev please clarify?

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Why those numbers would be wrong?

And if those numbers are right what changes? Turns out those complains aren't so widespread as you thought they are?

People love to assume that everybody does it because everybody complaining does it. That creates echo chamber.

Some of reasons why players flip have some validity, and some of them are just because people want to exploit game not to play it.

 

[Aashenfox]

Indeed. All I can do is echo what others have said which is that if they do this, then I want a massively enriched mission board with at least twice as many missions.

Tread carefully FD you are taking away what many people (2.8% lol) consider is the mechanism that makes the game bearable. I don't do it a lot myself, but if I couldn't do it when I wanted to, that would definitely frustrate me.

Case in point, last night I closed the game down an hour early cos there was nothing on the board I wanted to do, I even flipped it once (first time since 3.2) and still nothing.

P.S. On thread subject, I expect this 2.8% is a percentage of all the people who ever played the game (total number of accounts). I expect it would be more like 35% of players who logged in in the last 6 months AND play at least 6 hours a week.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Personally I think 2.8% sounds pretty accurate.

Even if a player uses board-flipping, he/she doesn't do it all the time. You do it for a few days, maybe weeks, until you have enough billions of credits and then you play for months or even years without doing it ever again, because missions are just a means to get some cash and not an end in itself.

Don't think it because of time. Simply huge majority of players do not care about min maxing and credits / resources per hour. People who want to get content faster do. But those tend to be small, very isolated groups.

Indeed. All I can do is echo what others have said which is that if they do this, then I want a massively enriched mission board with at least twice as many missions.

Tread carefully FD you are taking away what many people (2.8% lol) consider is the mechanism that makes the game bearable. I don't do it a lot myself, but if I couldn't do it when I wanted to, that would definitely frustrate me.

Case in point, last night I closed the game down an hour early cos there was nothing on the board I wanted to do, I even flipped it once (first time since 3.2) and still nothing.

P.S. On thread subject, I expect this 2.8% is a percentage of all the people who ever played the game (total number of accounts). I expect it would be more like 35% of players who logged in in the last 6 months AND play at least 6 hours a week.

Go to different station?

Why this reminds me of six stages of grief?

 

[Riverside]

Which is why you don't rely on anecdotes; it's not evidence. It's why everyone is convinced their own personal interest is the issue of the day which leads to large amounts of whining about FD not listening to "their playerbase".

You can ask FD to release their data or believe them. FD are the only people that know for sure and I think they do things for their benefit, which would not include p'ing off their playerbase; all caps manifestos to the contrary.

I'm not relying on anecdotal evidence. This stat has been provided as a footnote; how many users actually abuse an unintended loophole serves only to prioritise the urgency of the fix, not whether it should be done (clearly any unintended loophole should ideally be closed).

This 2.8% thing is only interesting at all because it's lower than expected.

 

[Whitehair]

I'd like to congratulate Will and FD on the 2.8% figure and the manner in which it was released.

Pure genius!

The pure amount of obsession shown about it the last few days shows how short the attention span of the average forum user is, and proves that it is an absolutely brilliant diversion tactic.

 

[RagingxPenguin]

Maybe that 2.8% shows how many players aren't playing.


I had a hard time finding someone who didn't board flip when I was cheesing around.

 

[Aashenfox]

Don't think it because of time. Simply huge majority of players do not care about min maxing and credits / resources per hour. People who want to get content faster do. But those tend to be small, very isolated groups.



Go to different station?

Why this reminds me of six stages of grief?

Your opinion on this subject means about as much to me, don't worry

 

[jonesskill]

Your opinion on this subject means about as much to me, don't worry

Sometimes i think that frontier need to develop a "Hardcore" version of the game for those guys.

Then i remember that they can play the actual game in a hardcore mode if they want, but no, those guys need to teach people HOW THE PEOPLE NEED TO PLAY.

 

[Julio Montega]

The question with these statistics is what the timeframe is where the observation happenened.
When there is no known goldrush the percentage logically is smaller.

It also does not factor in players who do not board flip, but wait for a reset/refresh of the BB,
since they want a special mission type.
Both methods to "wait on new missions" show the base problem:
The amount and type of missions generated.

 

[kofeyh]

People love to assume that everybody does it because everybody complaining does it. That creates echo chamber.

My dude, I have to apologise. This is the second time I've seen a moment of clarity in a response. Forums are an echo chamber, and magnify assumption, yes. The assumption that this was rampant, apparently just isn't the case. It's not happening "all the time"; just sometimes. That's what such a low average means. Which suggests it's more people trying to find something to interact with, rather than rampant abuse as was claimed.

But the cynical "we will increase money but not mission selection" is incredibly tone deaf though; because it's willfully ignoring one of the biggest causes in the first place. Lack of selection and linear choice.

I'm not relying on anecdotal evidence. This stat has been provided as a footnote; how many users actually abuse an unintended loophole serves only to prioritise the urgency of the fix, not whether it should be done (clearly any unintended loophole should ideally be closed).

There will always be some degree of people seeking optimal outcomes. Nothing Frontier can do, will stop that, short of turning the servers off. But like all these incredibly heavy handed actions, just punishes people in the middle, who just want to find a damned mission they can engage with - but can't - because very important people on the internet demand satisfaction because of a fringe belief that isn't borne out in practice but, by god, Frontier will 100% solve it and that's all that matters.

Not only that; people refuse to even believe the developer when they say one thing, and yet expect others to implicitly believe them for something else. So is Frontier fibbing, or not? Because if they are, then every other comment and statement is on the table. So if they aren't, then the percentage is barely above a margin of error. Surely the biggest problem of our time, then.

Look forward to the same discussion when Frontier decide to respond to the CL'ing abuse, particularly if that happens to be a low statistic - is it would only surely serves to prioritise the urgency of the fix, not whether it should be done (clearly any unintended loophole should ideally be closed).

Context is everything. I have no problem with Frontier solving problems, if they are actual solutions. Reducing choice and not increasing mission counts, despite having an entire dedicated resource, and just paying even more, is beyond cynical. It's unfathomable.

 

[Conch]

If they remove board hopping, they might aswell put a decent refresh button on the board..

 

[Ian Skippy]

...and this is why they never tell us anything. They're just met with shouts of lies and calls for proof.

This. Its also fun to see the usual people are not just amazing game designers, dev and internet lawyers but also experienced statisticians. [haha]

 

[Ian Skippy]

If they remove board hopping, they might aswell put a decent refresh button on the board..

Then you might as well be able to select any mission you want everywherr you are. The whol point is to be offered a selection, based on nunerous factors, which you can combine with other activities.

 

[Oztig]

Wasn't going to comment in this thread, but what the hell.

I feel sorry for FDEV - whatever they do, they are in the wrong, or people will moan.

They are making a positive change, and have given a reason as to why, and all people do is moan, and argue against their stats etc, based on comments on Youtube, and anecdotal evidence (god / pick your deity etc save us from a mindless generation!)

I have never 'board flipped', and never will - I don't expect every station to have just the mission I want - If it hasn't, I move to another station. i.e. I expect a variety of missions at different stations, not all the stations to have exactly what I want. If they had, what would be the point in travelling anywhere?

 

[kofeyh]

Then you might as well be able to select any mission you want everywherr you are.

.. that's the point, to offer contextually relevant choice of missions. That is, literally, the point of the board. To offer mission, relevant to the system state, but across multiple disciplines. It is a game, my friend, not a chain gang (that's Fortuna, and coming to warframe).

Or are you suggesting everyone should just take up assassination missions 24x7 if that's all that's on offer. Or fetch wing missions. Lord, imagine if people were actually free to do what they enjoyed. Holy god that's just awful.

 

[bitstorm]

...and this is why they never tell us anything. They're just met with shouts of lies and calls for proof.

But the figure is (IMHO) probably being misrepresented, and it's because the way the data was gathered was not mentioned.

What is wrong with asking for clarification.

Will specifically said in his post to feel free to ask any questions.

If you have any questions or would like to share your feedback with us, please post below!

Clarifying that figure is probably the best question since it's an exact figure that's being used to back up various arguments.

 

[Eymerich]

Wasn't going to comment in this thread, but what the hell.

I feel sorry for FDEV - whatever they do, they are in the wrong, or people will moan.

They are making a positive change, and have given a reason as to why, and all people do is moan, and argue against their stats etc, based on comments on Youtube, and anecdotal evidence (god / pick your deity etc save us from a mindless generation!)

I have never 'board flipped', and never will - I don't expect every station to have just the mission I want - If it hasn't, I move to another station. i.e. I expect a variety of missions at different stations, not all the stations to have exactly what I want. If they had, what would be the point in travelling anywhere?

Problem on case you missed is that there are tons of place holder here and there which are completly abandoned by Fd and have a serious impact on game ( high grade cz and so o
N)

Those mechanics should be worked on considering they impact the gameplay of everyone

And what does they do? They nerf a mechanic used by 2,8% of player

They choose to waste their development time on this

Crazy at least....

 

[kofeyh]

They are making a positive change, and have given a reason as to why, and all people do is moan, and argue against their stats etc, based on comments on Youtube, and anecdotal evidence (god / pick your deity etc save us from a mindless generation!)

A positive change is removing flipping, increasing mission counts, reducing some payouts and making the return on time spent relative across the board so folks aren't being punished for not loving one mission type, or another and just have enough selection that people can play the game and do as they do.

I kinda think that's really all that was needed; single system, broader count, reduced payout for outliers. Done. Sorted.

 

[kofeyh]

But the figure is (IMHO) probably being misrepresented, and it's because the way the data was gathered was not mentioned.

What is wrong with asking for clarification.

If I had a penny. The developer is probably misrepresenting this. But not anything else. Which means either they are basically lying (but only for this specific metric and absolutely nothing else at all) or people refuse to believe one thing, but absolutely everything else is fine because Frontier said so.

We will never know; because Frontier won't expand. But if we assume the developer isn't bold face lying (because remember all the other changes are fine and based on solid numbers Frontier will know; the same one's question here) then maybe it's seem's because it doesn't align with expectation. That doesn't make a metric automatically wrong; but it might mean the assumption is problematic.

This one metric that can't be right, but all the others the developer has to obviously explain the rest of the changes, are fine. This is the hill, to die on, then? This one?

edited.

 

[Julio Montega]

A positive change is removing flipping, increasing mission counts, reducing some payouts and making the return on time spent relative across the board so folks aren't being punished for not loving one mission type, or another and just have enough selection that people can play the game and do as they do.

I kinda think that's really all that was needed; single system, broader count, reduced payout for outliers. Done. Sorted.

It was suggested this way tons of time, but the solution the present here simply is reinforcing all the problematic:
Being even more prone to the BB board and being at the mercy of RNGesus.