News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

I was wondering about that, currently, the ADS does that work and though not much effort to drop into a nav beacon could the 'upgraded' ADS now not automatically pull data from the nav beacon as you jump in and honk?

Actually, it might make sense if the "honk" did show all data for a system which contains a Nav Beacon. I can imagine quite a backlash from non-explorers at not being able to get all the system data in a system in the bubble quickly and without hassle.

To be honest, I don't see why it shouldn't be the case that full data is automatically available for all systems with a Nav Beacon by default. There's very little to be gained by nascent explorers in the bubble anyway. The few systems in the bubble without Nav Beacons can be used by new players to hone their skills.
 

Adam Bourke-Waite

Principal Designer - E:D
Frontier
Okay, from a mechanics point of view that all sounds really awesome. I'm loving it.

I do have a question though: when we fully map a planet with probes does it reveal the exact locations of all POI's on the surface? Or does it reveal search zones to find the POI's?

It will give you the exact location of persistent POIs. The more transient, smaller POIs such as a collection of skimmers will not be located by the surface scan.
 
God this is a great point, if we tell someone to go to body A 2 A in a given system ('cos there's something there or for a race or meetup), currently they can honk and then work out which body it is from the system map.

How will this work in the new system?

It could make buying data from Universal Cartographics a lot more interesting. If you find something mysterious, you sell your data. Then others have to buy it in order to have it on their maps (maybe you even get a cut?)

That still doesn't do anything if you're on the other side of the galaxy and want to tell someone about something you found.
 
I remember it being a disappointment, getting the ADS and finding that suddenly EVERYTHING was available after a simple HONK.

I agree with this somewhat. (Finding planets by parallax is one of those cool newb things to do). How about retaining a trainee/astroboy version of the basic discovery scanner, not upgraded?
 
Curious to how this is explained in the lore, from a technological perspective. Technology gets replaced and made obsolete all the time, but rarely for something that's more time-consuming and difficult to use.
 
I think my favorite changes are those to USSs XD That has been a long needed change great job! Curious to see how we "detect" those still. If you're looking for any future ideas it would be awesome if it would be possible that we could also find player instances in a system this way? It might make a fun way to give pirates a way of finding mining victims as they could scan rings for emissions and then use that to initiate pirating. You could even then sell modules for emission scramblers that would take up maybe a slot but makes sure that you cannot be followed or at least as easily or could notify the miner if someone had discovered their singal.

With the exploration changes they do sound pretty interesting and exciting. I'm worried about how the repetition will hold up over a long amount of time, in my mind I'm trying to relate it to something like combat that holds it's edge for quite some time, but while the interaction with these new systems IS deeper it doesn't sound as varied. In both cases you're doing practically the same thing every time for each activity it would seem. At least with combat the way you fight things can change based on your weapon type, fix/gimballed/turret and a number of other ways. I also think it's interesting that there doesn't really seem to be any risk/reward gameplay as it relates to exploration. Obviously the further out you go the more "danger" there is but the rewards also haven't scaled based on the further you go into the black. Regardless sounds like an upgrade over what we have but a few worries to keep in mind that may cause some pains after people have it for a little while.

The last thing I would want to mention is the worry that to get new probes during long trips it's going to be a constant grind. I think it's going to be important to not make that system super grindy as it's going to suck to have to do a bunch of SRVing around to be able to use the cool new exploration feature and on top of that it would only be for horizons people to be able to use effectively while exploring unless players also brought mining gear. On top of that no such grind exists today in exploration which will always add to frustration. I would vote to have a way to recover probes with the goal for mapping with probes to be able to loop the probe back around to you like a boomerang in order to recover the probe automatically, if you miss you could always go pick them up as well. That way you could create a game loop where players are constantly able to prevent themselves from grinding assuming they are taking time to line up shots correctly and paying attention to positioning and planetary data in order to get the "perfect shot". Another option that would be nice is to give players the ability to BUY commodities in advance for long journeys (to give a sense of preparation or that could be found in a stockpile from planetary POI to cut down grind time) for probe manufacturing. This could also be in the form of having a separate module that people could buy to support this idea and could also offer better returns for the synthesis of probes if you have the module installed and/or the benefit of allowing you to break down commodities into the probes. You could even take that a step further where the better probes you can make the wider range they can map which would also decrease the amount you would need to map further. If these suites get more involved it would give explorers a go to module progression as well besides just the surface and discovery scanner. Maybe a better option would even be where the surface scanner was really more like a planetary research module, it could have different slots that you could apply different modifiers to that would allow better probe recovery options, better return from creating probes, better scan arcs or many other ideas in order to give some variation to the play style for planetary mapping.

Overall good work and can't wait to try the feature out in game!
 
I'm also a bit worried the new system mapping might turn out to be tedious after a while. It -does- look fun and engaging but from a gameplay perspective it should be something that you -want- to do, because you find the current star system interesting enough. It shouldn't be something you -need- to do for every new system you find just to get your bearings.

Whilst this also makes nav beacons more relevant (good) it also means that in the future we're forced to do an extra stop to scan it (very bad / waste of time).

My suggestions are:
a) Give us enough information about a system to be able to do basic navigation
b) Give us enough information to make an educated decision whether we think it's worth mapping a system
b) Make nav beacons scannable from supercruise
 
We can discover and surface scan anything without moving our ship by just using the new exploration game mechanics. So if I am at the systems main star I can discover a planet 1,000,000ly away and send micro-probes 1,000,000ly using the zoomed up planet I found?
 
Awesome, now we need mulitcrew support for SRVs. Will probes be limpets or a built in ammo for the module. Also will linpets become a built in ammo rather than cargo space?
 
Ummm, this blows.

A lot.

And hard.

I run around doing missions. A lot. I go here and there all over the bubble. So I'm constantly taking missions to low pop systems I've never been to.

Now: I drop into a system and whoops, never been here. 'Honk' Okay there is my target. Off I go.

After the update: Drop into a system, whoops. Never been here 'Honk' OK, find a signal... Nope, that's not it. OK, find another… Nope ...36 stellar bodies later... *ragequit

Edit to add: Just saw the 'you can still scan the nav beacon' reply. I haven't scanned more then three nav beacons since I installed the game. Will scanning a nav beacon reveal a planetary scan mission target?

Nav beacons have indeed always shown mission locations.

Yes, it will. It is very handy.

Thank you both for the replies.

I'm still not happy with this as it adds a non-trivial amount of time to almost all missions. Instead of a honk to find the location of your planetary scan/salvage/whatever mission you now have to drop into the nav beacon, scan it, and jump back to supercruise. AND you lose the (trivial credit wise, but still useful for building rep occasionally) exploration data.

I do get to sell a boatload of ADS/DSSs.

Wait, do I have to use a DSS to find the specific location of a planetary scan/salvage mission (mapping the planet) or will that still function as it does now?
 
What happens in beta stays in beta everything gets wiped

Ahh, excellent! I'm picturing the first episode of "The Amazing Race" the minute this update drops. This assumes people enjoy "tagging" planets and systems as much as I do (especially the coveted catalog stars and popular systems).

Oh wait, if this update rolls out like the original release of ED for PS4, it's a rolling update, meaning you Brits will get it hours before we Americans! NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:
 
I for one like that it slows down exploration, but I would expect that the payout is increased appropriately. If I understand correctly, the initial honk reveals a spectrum of system contents that are ambiguous to a degree. I think it's very important that this information still enables to quickly asses if there are water worlds, earth likes, black holes, etc. to be found with "above average" probability.

Also like the change to USSes - who doesn't! But I hope that instead of a timer - which is super gamey and immersion breaking - you show how "strong" the signal is so that you know that a "weak signal" will degrade within say 2 minutes, and that the initial sweep generates a distribution of USSes with different signal strength. I wouldn't like to see a screen with 7 USSes all with a synchronous timer 7:32 counting down. That would make it way to gamey. But again, great that USSes are now discovered by scanning!
 
Hi Whitmann, we don't have our synthesis recipe nailed down at the moment. We are currently working with a ship's holding around a couple of hundred probes. It's important to note that scanning a planet varies based on size of the body and aiming skills of the pilot.

100 probes sounds decent, but I hope you don't mean "100 probes worth of materials, to be synthesized one by one". :D

Consider how many planets an explorer sees every day, they'd have to stop and spend a couple of hours(!)refilling their materials every few of systems if they are serious about mapping all the bodies.
 
Please consider the time to discover bodies in a system. We need some way to get the basics quickly, similar to how ADS works now. Then be rewarded if we decide to spend extra time investigating a system.

Perhaps the initial honk could give a hint on system contents some how, then we could know how much time to invest in a system e.g. chlorophyll detected, high concentrations of amonia detected, etc.

Please make sure we can synthesise probes from mats we can find far from populated space.
 
Thank you for taking the time and effort to post this and seek feedback.
My impressions of the gameplay described here are very much mixed, so I will try to highlight both good and bad points.
  • Discovery Scanner. Good point: the scanning mechanism of identifying energy signatures is interesting, however I do not think it is best to utilise it for detecting astronomical bodies, rather as a step in gaining information on them from a distance. Issue 1: this will dramatically lengthen the time taken just to identify the presence of astronomical bodies or points of interest in the system. Issue 2: time management will be difficult, as it will be difficult to estimate how complex the system is on first viewing the scan data and how distant some bodies are. Suggestion: retain the current functionality of the ADS and use the new scanning mechanism to allow for long range detailed surface scanning giving a 'First Discovered' upon isolation of the signal. This first step should be quick and the more detailed examinations should take longer as you search for more specific and detailed information. Issue 3 what happens with existing partially-scanned systems? How will this information be shown on the system map?
  • Unidentified Signal Sources. Issue 1: this mechanism does not fundamentally change the fact that there will be a random distribution of USS throughout the system. Whether players find the type of signal source they are looking for or not, I would expect those trying to farm certain resources (especially High Grade SS) to relog repeatedly to generate signal sources of the desired type close to their location.
  • Detailed Surface Scanner. Good Point: this will end the need to eyeball planets for interesting surface features. Overall I think this is a good feature as proposed and it will be down to the execution, e.g. in the clarity of the UI to show the current progress towards 100% mapping and which regions of the planet and rings remain to be mapped. Issue 1: running out of materials to synthesise probes will result in a ship needing to return to port unless the materials needed can be found from surface mining, or lose DSS functionality and the ability to map planets. Suggestion 1 allow engineering of the detailed surface scanner to increase the probe storage capacity, possibly as an experimental effect (so existing capabilities will not be lost). Suggestion 2 allow a single probe to gain complete coverage of a planet if its trajectory either results in an orbit insertion or passing within sight of enough of the surface.
 
Hello Commanders!

We're going to be shaking the format up slightly for the final main topic of discussion surrounding some of the major features of Chapter Four of Beyond. We're soon going to be revealing more details about the next update, so for this post, we'd like you to share all of your questions and comments in reply to this thread, and we'll try to respond to as many as we can!

In this post we’ll be presenting just some of the improvements coming to exploration in the next update. There's a number of benefits that we are aiming to bring in with this exploration overhaul which we've listed out below, with more detailed explanation underneath.

Benefits of Exploration Improvements

  • Make exploration more involved: By introducing a process we aim to make exploration feel more meaningful, making the results more satisfying and rewarding.
  • Replace flying time with gameplay: We want to reduce the amount of time you have to spend flying to a planet just to discover it. The only time we want you to fly to a planet is because you want to visit it as there’s something there you want to see or do. Ultimately that will make exploring planetary bodies and getting first discoveries in a system quicker and more engaging at the same time.
  • Remove Random USS Spawning: You will now be able to use your skill to locate signal sources rather than rely on luck. you will have the ability to identify a USS from anywhere in the system and then explore and discover these locations.
  • Reduce the time to find planet surface locations: You will now be able to employ game play to make searching out interesting surface locations/POIs quicker and more interesting rather than flying across the planet in low orbit.
  • Improve multiplayer exploration: With both of the module upgrades we are making sure that wings and multi-crew are supported.
  • Holistic System:The improvements to exploration mechanics tie together not just new discoveries, but mining, missions and signal source location in one package.
  • All new "First mapped": You'll be able to add a first mapped across any planet within the galaxy, including within the bubble. Giving all players that have joined the game since it's launch even more opportunity to make their mark on the galaxy.

Check out the full details below.

The Discovery Scanner

Because explorers ply their trade far from civilized space, we’ve decided to not add new module requirements. Instead, we’re improving the discovery scanner and detailed surface scanner so Commanders can jump right in as soon as the update is released, without having to spend time traveling back to a port to purchase new gear.

When you activate the discovery scanner you will now be taken to an all-new scanning interface and view. In this augmented camera view you are able to interrogate the system using new functionality of the scanner.


The process still starts with the “honk” (system scan), though its usage is now the start of a more engaging process (if all you did before was scan for some credits, don't worry, the scan still awards credits.)

The system scan now returns an aggregated display of how energetic the electromagnetic emissions are in the system. Signals are sorted on a low to high scale by their apparent energy. For example, emissions from rocky clusters will appear at the lower end of the scale, hot gas giants at the upper range. This information requires some interpretation as signals can overlap.

You are able to tune the focus of your sensors to a particular point on the scale, making emissions from objects at this range much clearer, at the cost of filtering out signals returned from bodies not emitting at this range.

As you move the view around, you are aiming your discovery scanner sensors. To aid you, the discovery scanner view also features a repeating sweep of gravitational disturbance detected in the system. You can use this sweep to narrow your search for stellar bodies, as well as start your search around the star's orbital plane, which is revealed by the initial system scan.

Emissions that come close enough to your view’s focus are represented by signature patterns around a central reticule. If you are tuned to the correct point on the energy scale the signal will show as a symmetrical pattern clearly showing the direction towards the origin of the signal, allowing you to locate it. The further away your energy tuning, the more distorted and asymmetrical the pattern becomes, hiding the precise direction and location.

Once you have a candidate origin, you can use the scanner to reconstruct a massively zoomed in view. If you aimed precisely enough, you will discover the stellar body. If there are a number of stellar bodies in relative close proximity to your focus, you may need to repeat the process to isolate individual signals.


As you locate and identify stellar bodies their emissions are filtered out, instead becoming markers on the energy range, making it easier to find the remaining bodies. It's at this point in that you will gain the “first discovered” tag, rather than having to physically visit the planet (you still need to sell the data at a port to gain the tag). All current first discovered tags will remain.

Importantly, when you uncover a planet using the discovery scanner, as well as being informed of the resources available on it, the presence of unusual locations, such as Guardian sites, will also be revealed. However, their precise location won’t be shown until you have mapped the planet with the detailed surface scanner.


Unidentified Signal Sources

Along with the Exploration update, we are improving the way that USSs work. USSs will now spawn throughout the entire system when you first enter it. This enables you to use the new exploration tools to find USSs throughout the system, not just in the area around you. You can still interrogate nav beacons to find the locations.

Whilst USSs do still have a decay time, the timers have been increased to allow you time to find and fly to the ones you are interested in. The decay time is also now displayed when targeted. Signal sources still obey rules determining where they can appear within a system, and mission critical signal sources will still be highlighted to differentiate themselves once located.


The Detailed Surface Scanner

Again, this module will not be replaced. Instead, the detailed surface scanner gains the ability to launch micro sensor probes in supercruise. You will use these probes to “map” a planet’s surface and locate resource hotspots in its rings.

These flight-assisted probes are launched via a new aiming interface when activating the detailed surface scanner. The probes will arc towards a planet’s surface and when close enough will “display” sensor coverage over a large area. Once enough of the surface has coverage, the probes will collate and report their findings. To map rings around a planet you need to hit each ring with a single probe.

To allow for skilled play you can aim probes away from the planet, allowing them to arc around it, potentially letting you hit the surface on far side of the planet. If you aim too far away, the probe will fly right past and miss, but by using mass and size information displayed on the HUD you will be able to lob probes and get full coverage without having to fly around the planet.

You will be able to synthesise micro-probes for the detailed surface scanner, but the better aim you are, the less probes you will need to get complete coverage.

When you do achieve this, any unusual locations will be revealed to your ship’s navigation systems. So no more eyeballing an entire planet to find those brain trees!


First Mapped By

We are also adding a new opportunity to get your Commander's name immortalised in the game with the new 'First Mapped By' tag. The first person to successfully map a planet to 100% and sell the resulting data at a port, will be awarded this tag. This also applies for planets that have already got a 'First Discovered' tag as well.


Multi-Crew

As part of the exploration update, we are making sure that multi-crew members can use the discovery scanner and detailed surface scanner at the same time and all discoveries are shared among crew or wing.

This allows wings and multi-crew to engage in exploration together, each earning credits and exploration rank and making the process more efficient.


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We'll be revealing more details about Beyond - Chapter Four in the coming weeks and we can't wait to show you, but in the meantime, please post your feedback regarding Exploration in this thread and we'll try to respond to as many queries as we can.

Remember, this thread is not an area for debate between community members – it’s fine to read what others have put, but try to ensure your posts are directed at us rather than your fellow posters.


What is the minimum amount of "very well lobbed" probes it will take to map a planet please?

A lot of people will want to add a detailed surface scanner now just for use round the bubble, on already full/finely crafted ship load outs - are there plans to make it possible to put multiple scanners into a single SIZE 2/3 slot?

Would you consider offering a bonus for mapping an entire system?


This is a great post. the content looks great, thanks.
 
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Hello Commanders!

(SNIPPED)

So there's some frustration already with this mechanic, or the sound of it. A question:

From the point of the honk, how long do projections take to locate a planetary body?

Right now, what I've seen in discussion is that it sounds like its taking a significant amount of time, and without an adjustment of payout for the scan, it seems to be adding to "the grind" of exploration earnings.

Is that the case?

Other options have been presented, such as revealing the presence of, but not types, etc, of bodies in the system, with the honk, the other data being filled in with the new mechanics. This, I feel currently, is worth consideration...
 
If you want the location data without using the discovery scanner you can still scan the Nav Beacon to obtain this information.

This sounds good until you realize that dropping into a Nav Beacon while carrying cargo, for a mission or otherwise, is much riskier than just honking the ADS. I just want to point that out :p

Overall the new system sounds a bit meh to me. It doesn't sound more interesting, just more make-work to find almost the same data we get now.

Adding hoops to jump through doesn't help anything, unless the hoops themselves are actually fun to jump through. It doesn't sound like they are, to me. They sound rather tedious.

I suppose we'll see, but that's my first impression.
 
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