News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

Where do you want me to start?

It's based in a ludicrously inflated sense of self-worth, completely forgets that you were in exactly the same position once, imagines that there's something worthy of respect about having played a computer game for a while (honestly you're not curing cancer here mate, sense of perspective eh?) imagines that your feedback should be 'worth' more to the developer despite the fact that the only meaningful measure of our value to a company is the money we've spent to buy the game and most of all, because you could have expressed every single point you made about the mechanics without the need to say a single word about any other player, their opinions and what they find interesting in the game.

There's also the fact that FDev specifically said that they want feedback on the proposed changes, not feedback on your frankly worthless opinion of somebody else's feedback.

So in view of that last point I'll leave it there but believe me, I could quite cheerfully give you another few paragraphs were it not for that. Oh and before you start, I hit elite in exploration before the payout buff, have just under 3,000 hours in the game, my last trip out covered about 140,000 LY and if you're thinking about telling me how many millions of LY you've travelled, I'm sorry to say you can add that to the list of things I really don't give a crap about. Seriously, wind your neck in.

After four years, and four thousand hours, I have just today achieved Elite in Exploration. I'm two spots off the bottom on the EGO 100 leaderboard.

Obviously, I have been using exploits. :)

I think Mengy is right. Frontier really does not understand it's solo/PvE customers, especially explorers. It wants MMO play.
 
"If there are a number of stellar bodies in relative close proximity to your focus, you may need to repeat the process to isolate individual signals."

I'd rather not scan every stellar body in a system of 26 or more planets...

Scanning them as clusters of main planet and orbiting moons may be less tedious, given they are close to each other.
At second thought there are not too many of these systems and there often are pois in these.
I'm curious and hope the micro probes will be a cheap synthesis like the ones for the SRV.
 
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No. It would ruin the emissions analysis gameplay and the excitement of revealing the planet through the telescope for the first time.

Not necessarily. The current system only shows a "generic" icon for a planetary mass of a certain type. Successful emission analysis would reveal the actual planet. The proposed system substitutes the current circular planet icon for the new squiggly lines.

This is a really good proposition they have, and I would hate to see it ruined by the current cheap mechanic.

The current cheap mechanic is fun and useful to a lot of current players. Also, in-fiction, why would a piece of equipment suddenly lose functionality?

(AFAIK)You will still be able to discern certain planets from others by looking at the electromagnetic emission output, you don't have to spot every planet to find what you are after. You see an interesting signal you narrow it down to see what it is. You see no interesting signatures then jump to next system.

As I recall from the description, signals will overlap and not always be readily apparent. While I appreciate the parallels with the SRV waveform scanner, I don't think it raises the "fun" quotient enough to compensate for the additional time investment.

The only compromise I would accept is if the process was sped up somehow. But I would prefer they keep it as described.

Speeding up the process would involve changing the minigame which they have presumably already designed and probably started programming. Changing what is revealed or awarded is still (apparently/hopefully) still up for discussion.
 
After four years, and four thousand hours, I have just today achieved Elite in Exploration. I'm two spots off the bottom on the EGO 100 leaderboard.

Obviously, I have been using exploits. :)

I think Mengy is right. Frontier really does not understand it's solo/PvE customers, especially explorers. It wants MMO play.

Congratulations mate. Much like exploration itself, it's the journey that's important not how long it takes to reach the destination.

This is just too much of a change for me to spend much time theorycrafting how I think it's going to pan out to be honest. Needs a beta so we can all have a go at it and then come back with some informed opinions, anything else is just spinning our wheels for now.
 
And there is nothing wrong with that. It's an incentive to make a long trip without greatly increasing time to get to an event. I don't want to "explore"...I just want to "pay" for the trip.

Why not add exploration without removing the Pay for the trip" incentive ??

There's no "greatly increased time" added, if all you're doing is "getting to an event", or traveling from Point A to Point B.

Works the same as it always has. You get still basic information about systems.

You just don't get "free" pay for not actively scanning every system on the way to your destination.

No one is telling you to stop trippin.
 
Will the new discovery scanner interface have visual cues for quickly determining determining what a planet is alongside similar to the audio cues or are hearing impaired folks gonna be stuck always scanning every planet by hand to determine what each is?
 
Hello Commanders!

We're going to be shaking the format up slightly for the final main topic of discussion surrounding some of the major features of Chapter Four of Beyond. We're soon going to be revealing more details about the next update, so for this post, we'd like you to share all of your questions and comments in reply to this thread, and we'll try to respond to as many as we can!

In this post we’ll be presenting just some of the improvements coming to exploration in the next update. There's a number of benefits that we are aiming to bring in with this exploration overhaul which we've listed out below, with more detailed explanation underneath.

Benefits of Exploration Improvements

  • Make exploration more involved: By introducing a process we aim to make exploration feel more meaningful, making the results more satisfying and rewarding.
  • Replace flying time with gameplay: We want to reduce the amount of time you have to spend flying to a planet just to discover it. The only time we want you to fly to a planet is because you want to visit it as there’s something there you want to see or do. Ultimately that will make exploring planetary bodies and getting first discoveries in a system quicker and more engaging at the same time.
  • Remove Random USS Spawning: You will now be able to use your skill to locate signal sources rather than rely on luck. you will have the ability to identify a USS from anywhere in the system and then explore and discover these locations.
  • Reduce the time to find planet surface locations: You will now be able to employ game play to make searching out interesting surface locations/POIs quicker and more interesting rather than flying across the planet in low orbit.
  • Improve multiplayer exploration: With both of the module upgrades we are making sure that wings and multi-crew are supported.
  • Holistic System:The improvements to exploration mechanics tie together not just new discoveries, but mining, missions and signal source location in one package.
  • All new "First mapped": You'll be able to add a first mapped across any planet within the galaxy, including within the bubble. Giving all players that have joined the game since it's launch even more opportunity to make their mark on the galaxy.

Check out the full details below.

The Discovery Scanner

Because explorers ply their trade far from civilized space, we’ve decided to not add new module requirements. Instead, we’re improving the discovery scanner and detailed surface scanner so Commanders can jump right in as soon as the update is released, without having to spend time traveling back to a port to purchase new gear.

When you activate the discovery scanner you will now be taken to an all-new scanning interface and view. In this augmented camera view you are able to interrogate the system using new functionality of the scanner.


The process still starts with the “honk” (system scan), though its usage is now the start of a more engaging process (if all you did before was scan for some credits, don't worry, the scan still awards credits.)

The system scan now returns an aggregated display of how energetic the electromagnetic emissions are in the system. Signals are sorted on a low to high scale by their apparent energy. For example, emissions from rocky clusters will appear at the lower end of the scale, hot gas giants at the upper range. This information requires some interpretation as signals can overlap.

You are able to tune the focus of your sensors to a particular point on the scale, making emissions from objects at this range much clearer, at the cost of filtering out signals returned from bodies not emitting at this range.

As you move the view around, you are aiming your discovery scanner sensors. To aid you, the discovery scanner view also features a repeating sweep of gravitational disturbance detected in the system. You can use this sweep to narrow your search for stellar bodies, as well as start your search around the star's orbital plane, which is revealed by the initial system scan.

Emissions that come close enough to your view’s focus are represented by signature patterns around a central reticule. If you are tuned to the correct point on the energy scale the signal will show as a symmetrical pattern clearly showing the direction towards the origin of the signal, allowing you to locate it. The further away your energy tuning, the more distorted and asymmetrical the pattern becomes, hiding the precise direction and location.

Once you have a candidate origin, you can use the scanner to reconstruct a massively zoomed in view. If you aimed precisely enough, you will discover the stellar body. If there are a number of stellar bodies in relative close proximity to your focus, you may need to repeat the process to isolate individual signals.


As you locate and identify stellar bodies their emissions are filtered out, instead becoming markers on the energy range, making it easier to find the remaining bodies. It's at this point in that you will gain the “first discovered” tag, rather than having to physically visit the planet (you still need to sell the data at a port to gain the tag). All current first discovered tags will remain.

Importantly, when you uncover a planet using the discovery scanner, as well as being informed of the resources available on it, the presence of unusual locations, such as Guardian sites, will also be revealed. However, their precise location won’t be shown until you have mapped the planet with the detailed surface scanner.


Unidentified Signal Sources

Along with the Exploration update, we are improving the way that USSs work. USSs will now spawn throughout the entire system when you first enter it. This enables you to use the new exploration tools to find USSs throughout the system, not just in the area around you. You can still interrogate nav beacons to find the locations.

Whilst USSs do still have a decay time, the timers have been increased to allow you time to find and fly to the ones you are interested in. The decay time is also now displayed when targeted. Signal sources still obey rules determining where they can appear within a system, and mission critical signal sources will still be highlighted to differentiate themselves once located.


The Detailed Surface Scanner

Again, this module will not be replaced. Instead, the detailed surface scanner gains the ability to launch micro sensor probes in supercruise. You will use these probes to “map” a planet’s surface and locate resource hotspots in its rings.

These flight-assisted probes are launched via a new aiming interface when activating the detailed surface scanner. The probes will arc towards a planet’s surface and when close enough will “display” sensor coverage over a large area. Once enough of the surface has coverage, the probes will collate and report their findings. To map rings around a planet you need to hit each ring with a single probe.

To allow for skilled play you can aim probes away from the planet, allowing them to arc around it, potentially letting you hit the surface on far side of the planet. If you aim too far away, the probe will fly right past and miss, but by using mass and size information displayed on the HUD you will be able to lob probes and get full coverage without having to fly around the planet.

You will be able to synthesise micro-probes for the detailed surface scanner, but the better aim you are, the less probes you will need to get complete coverage.

When you do achieve this, any unusual locations will be revealed to your ship’s navigation systems. So no more eyeballing an entire planet to find those brain trees!


First Mapped By

We are also adding a new opportunity to get your Commander's name immortalised in the game with the new 'First Mapped By' tag. The first person to successfully map a planet to 100% and sell the resulting data at a port, will be awarded this tag. This also applies for planets that have already got a 'First Discovered' tag as well.


Multi-Crew

As part of the exploration update, we are making sure that multi-crew members can use the discovery scanner and detailed surface scanner at the same time and all discoveries are shared among crew or wing.

This allows wings or commanders in multi-crew to engage in exploration together, each earning credits and exploration rank and making the process more efficient.


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We'll be revealing more details about Beyond - Chapter Four in the coming weeks and we can't wait to show you, but in the meantime, please post your feedback regarding Exploration in this thread and we'll try to respond to as many queries as we can.

This particular thread is not an area for debate between community members – it’s fine to read what others have put, but try to ensure your posts are directed at us rather than your fellow posters.

Hiya Will.

In broad strokes terms, this looks extremely exciting, & is definitely up there with the mining changes in terms of fundamental game improvements.

That said, I would like to suggest a few relatively minor changes/additions to what you have relayed here:

1 USS/PoI: Can I advise not to "throw out the baby with the bathwater", & still allow the potential for players to stumble on USS's & PoI's at random, whilst obviously making scanning for them the far more efficient approach. Also, the Devs should consider allowing Commanders to further "interrogate" USS's & PoI's via a secondary, active scan (as opposed to the passive scan system we currently have). The length of scan & range of scan can reveal ever increasing amounts of info about the USS/PoI, even down to what is specifically within them (like x escape pods, or y modular terminals). The quality of scanner also needs to play a role in the maximum amount of info can be revealed.

2. Discovery Scanners: I will possibly cop flak for this suggestion, but can we please make the ADS less of a "Mary Sue"? Infinite range scanning is just too OTT for my liking. I would love to see the range reined in a fair bit, but compensate with significant improvements in other areas (like scan angle etc). I would also like to recommend swapping the BDS/IDS/ADS module with a range of discovery scanners rated from Grade H through to A, with ever improving stats along the way, & with built in DSS capability for Grade A scanners.

On a related note, I would like to see the ability-& even occasional need-to do "partial scans". The longer you hold down the scan button, the more info you gain. However there should be potential dowsides to doing full scans *all* of the time!

3. Surface scanning. Love the sound of the probe mechanic, but would like to make the following suggestions.

First up, make probes a kind of "ammunition", not cargo (same goes for limpets, going forward IMO). Secondly, allow players to replicate the functionality of the probes using their own ships instead. Such a thing should be fairly risky, but doable by a skilled pilot. I know its the kind of thing I would get a kick out of doing ;). Lastly, even a surface scan should not be an "x marks the spot" for PoI's. At best a surface scan should narrow the PoI location down to a 5km radius search zone. After all, you have to leave us something for our eyes/wave scanners to do ;).

4. Power/Heat management in exploration. Something I have long wanted to see is the ability to shift power from one module to another, to improve that module temporarily, & scanners would be a great place to start.....though there should be an issue with heat effects on that module if you divert power for too long. Either way, heat build-up could be one of the aforementioned "dowsides" to too frequent full scans.

5. Science Modules. One thing you might consider for the "explorer in a hurry" (a bit of an oxymoron, I know) might be a module that can convert lower quality scan data into more high quality scan data. This would be a skill based process, but one that can be done whilst in super-cruise. However, as it would be based on extrapolation, the data would never be worth as much as doing the scans yourself, nor would you get a "first discovery bonus".

6. Multicrew-navigator: given the changes to USS & PoI mechanics, it might be useful to have a new "navigator" role in Multicrew. Someone who can easily target objects within the system for the pilot to fly to, & perhaps to even gain more info on those objects too. Of course navigation would be an even more important role if we had an Orrery Map (hint, hint ;) ).

7. Scans, Stars & Fuel Scooping: What I would really love to see is for discovery scans to provide a "heat map" of stars-especially the scoopable ones. These could reveal "hot spots" on the star that could allow for faster fuel scooping, but at the risk of the star ejecting solar mass from that spot (a reasonable warning should be provided). Likewise, speed & "angle of attack" should also allow for faster scooping, though the lazy "park in front of a star approach should still work, but just be a lot slower. Last of all, those solar ejecta we keep seeing are very pretty, but need to have an in game effect going forward-like potentially causing hull/heat damage to the ship.....possibly even knocking the ship out of Supercruise.

Well, those are my suggestions. Please take them in the tone in which they are intended. I accept that some of them might be too big/radical for the Q4 update, but I hope the devs might consider most of my ideas for future improvements to exploration in 2019.
 
To be fair, even without the 'honk' you're not blind. You should still be able to see stars and planets in the current system, especially by observing the parallax effect as you move about. There's nothing stopping you from flying close and scanning them that way.

You have I fear entirely missed the point
 
As a side note, my feeling is the infinite range scanner (AKA "instahonk") was probably the single-most mistake to affect Exploration negatively. It seriously simplified any meaning for "discovery" and made things way too easy.

People no longer had to "work" for discoveries- they could just fly in, honk, and if nothing but Icy planets move on. Sure, DSS was an attempt to rectify this- but didn't go quite far enough. Sorry to say- but clicking a single button and waiting a few seconds for the honk sound isn't "work". And for those who already previously flew from planetary body to planetary body using a DSS, you already had a time investment to begin with.
 
Late, but thanks FD and also for all the nice additions with Beyond so far; great amazing work in the upcoming update.
 
To be fair, even without the 'honk' you're not blind. You should still be able to see stars and planets in the current system, especially by observing the parallax effect as you move about. There's nothing stopping you from flying close and scanning them that way.

Ah the old days before scanners. [where is it]
 
USS will continue to spawn at set intervals, each one has a timer as well which denotes when it will expire.


We are considering upgrading all discovery scanners into a single discovery scanner and removing the lesser versions from the game. Those players who have already purchased scanners above the basic level would receive compensation.

Yeah, that's going to cause rebuy and ship transfer cost issues for players that suddenly have a stock loan-winder with a 1.5 million CR scanner on board.

It might be more sensible to significantly reduce the cost of the ADS instead.

Or, keep three different models, with three different levels of enhanced capability.
 
This exploration update is long overdue but some (all) of the things being promised here are veey good. The revised scanning system sounds amazing.
Thanks FD
 
Anyone here talking about how slow it's gonna be seriously have to stop thinking this games is YOUR JOB. you wont get more income by playing it the more efficient way, and you should take a step back and think about how you play the game, yes it's probably gonna kick your CR/hr down. but you will have to play an ACTUAL GAME, instead of a mindless > jump > honk > press period to see the nav map > look for something interesting , repeat.

It's got nothing to do with credits.
It's about the value of the gameplay and how changing it affects our enjoyment of the game.

Can you imagine the salt if combat pilots had to play a minigame to decode a ship's IFF transponder to determine if it was wanted?

That's how it feels to some of us.
 
Can you imagine the salt if combat pilots had to play a minigame to decode a ship's IFF transponder to determine if it was wanted?

Planets don't have the potential of shooting at you, though. Well, perhaps in Star Wars they do.

Perhaps if stars had CME, GRB and other things it might make it more interesting (and dangerous)...
 
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