Opinions on combat logging

[sewerratuk]

The only time I've had my CMDR engage in activities that could reasonably be called ganking was back in the game's first year when I naively thought it was possible to effect tangible in-game change through direct in-game action. Back during the original Sothis run/exploit era I flew a stealth Clipper commerce raider and shot down a few dozen CMDRs in an attempt at economic warfare. Haven't done anything like it since, not because I'm adverse to unfair PvP, when there is sufficient cause for it, but because I realize such actions are like trying to overpower a tornado by farting at it. It was some of the grindiest gameplay I ever experienced and I've avoided it ever since.

Nine times in ten, my PvP encounters involve my CMDR defending himself, allies, or apparently innocent strangers, from attack by superior forces. Most of the remainder are people who picked the wrong side in a CZ, or who interdicted or scanned my CMDR when he was having a bad day.

Regardless of the specifics of the encounters, I have never had my CMDR attack any other CMDR with the goal of causing grief for another player.

Yeah I figured this. I was just trying to use terminology that would be understandable.
Some people can't understand that you may have a motive for destroying someone else's ship other than trying to cause out of game salt.
They may not know your thought path for attacking and will automatically class it as griefing.

I'm the same, I have never engaged someone for out of game reasons, sorry if they can't understand that but get over it and move on

 

[Rampant]

Dont care. Too be honest. The activity you are involved in should determine the type of gameplay you participate in. And not a modes option.

Literally the only argument here is to remove yourself from the objective. Just like Combat Logging, AND Intentional use of the 15 second timer every time you get engaged on.

Its all done for the same outcome. Removing yourself from the opponent. And thats not okay in any way, shape, or form.

Im not going to argue technicalities over player owned systems with you. You've been arguing about the technicalities in combat logging for 2 weeks straight.

I'd very much appreciate it if you took some advice from some of the veterans playing this game. You can leave me out if youd like and take advice from many others that have replied to you.

Go get involved in the game so you understand it. Im not trying to be mean. But I think if you spent less time here and more time in the game.

You would see and experience some of the things people are talking about.

Responding to the bit in bold.

You have no authority here. The game rules have intentionally placed a 15sec timer to Menu Exit during combat situations. FDev have been continually lobbied to change this or remove the function altogether. They have clearly considered the timer over and over again and have kept it at 15 sec despite the loobying. The game designer therefore considers it acceptable. You may not like this. But you have no authority to say that it is not acceptable, because it clearly is acceptable within the rules and game design hard coded by the game designer.

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I've read the other thread about vultures and how spamming rails wouldn't raise heat at all with all the propers engineer upgrades.

Sad to conclude no one ever missed some heat mechanisms as balancing and gameplay options for combat ships. It was just thrown away in the bin with powercreep, it's as if ships are all running cold anyway and the whole meter just sits useless on the left side.

This is what you get.

Just imagine a combat log is the true silent running mechanism.

I cant wait for them to give a G5 menu with magical reduced countdown.

In that case it's using an undersized weapon too.

The thermal load reduction added to rail gun experimentals in 3.0 was to deal with the grandfathering issue, since some people didn't want to give up their legacy, low heat weapons.
So that is using "heat mechanisms as balancing", ironically.

You'll still cook yourself in many ships that said.
Have you used rails at all?

 

[Krash]

The challenge is to destroy the menu logger within the 15 secs. It can be done.

 

[Space Dandy]

The challenge is to destroy the menu logger within the 15 secs. It can be done.

Yeah some people just need to Git Gud!

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

The only impressions I've ever gotten from Morbad are knowledgeable, helpful, thoughtful and introspective.
His behavior in game seems to reflect that too, from what I've seen.

Using loaded terms to uindermine his positions is petty and childish, and essentially a lie.

[down]

 

[Caldric]

Doesn't seem there is any difference between combat logging and playing in solo. Both are legit.

 

[Krash]

Yeah some people just need to Git Gud!

If menu logging is so prevalent on the one hand and if we have these overpowered min maxed cheat builds on the other hand, why isn't this a thing? Go ahead and menu log, for that makes your destruction a sure thing vs my 14sec destrecto murderboat.

 

[lenna]

The intent behind an in-game attack on an in-game character may occasionally be to cause grief to a player. This sort of desire is foreign to me, so maybe I'm underestimating it, but fact of the matter is that a significant portion of these encounters have multiple credible in-game reasons behind them, and automatically assuming that it's to aggrieve the player is both paranoid and arrogant in the extreme.

The intent of those who advocate combat logging or abuse of the timer, to stick it to those they (often falsely) perceive is as 'griefers', is perforce to cause grief to another player.

Your idea of "true griefers" is either hypocritically disingenuous, or at the very least, profoundly irrational.

The only hypocritical arguments I am seeing are yours and those backing your position to increase the menu timer. Use of the menu timer is not griefing, and could never reasonably be considered griefing in itself since the person exiting is not actually going out their way to kill the player. Not letting a player kill you is NOT griefing the person on the notionally winning side.

If they combat log by forcibly terminating the application then that is one thing, that is combat logging and not griefing. Menu logging regardless of the circumstances is neither combat logging or griefing, preceding behaviours may constitute griefing but that is another matter entirely.

As for menu timer duration having anything to do with verisimilitude - rubbish, it has nothing AT ALL to do with it either positively or negatively.

 

[philngraves]

Doesn't seem there is any difference between combat logging and playing in solo. Both are legit.

Sure there are differences. Playing in solo doesn't drive the need to cry havok everytime a real person comes across your path in open play.
Bit of irony here, from my first year at playing elite:
I was just wealthy enough from grinding bounties that I could afford a FDL. (Pre engineer mind you). So I'm rolling around open and decide to try pirating. I go after a type 7 and start beating on his hull, then demand cargo. Said person logs. As in closes the game logs. A few seconds later (my first combat logger, so I was confused as to how he became invincible) I recieve messages via xbox live that delve deep into the nature of my relationship with my mother, father, and some puppies that I apparently had kicked some time in my life. These messages persisted for a full day over live and via the game.
I blocked them.

Later on, as I became more knowledgeable about the game and rules of the game, I find out that 'I' was griefing that player. Odd, because I had read throught both the ToS and CoC at this point... which clearly state that harassing via messages 'is' considered griefing...

So I gave up on pirating and would occasionally just murder people. Met some good friends that way actually. Ahh, nostalgia.

And Morbad, trying to communicate with Rlsg not unlike making a window in a cinderblock wall using only your face... leaves you dizzy, confused and generally slack-jawed at the ridiculousness of the situation.

 

[sewerratuk]

The only hypocritical arguments I am seeing are yours and those backing your position to increase the menu timer. Use of the menu timer is not griefing, and could never reasonably be considered griefing in itself since the person exiting is not actually going out their way to kill the player. Not letting a player kill you is NOT griefing the person on the notionally winning side.

If they combat log by forcibly terminating the application then that is one thing, that is combat logging and not griefing. Menu logging regardless of the circumstances is neither combat logging or griefing, preceding behaviours may constitute griefing but that is another matter entirely.

As for menu timer duration having anything to do with verisimilitude - rubbish, it has nothing AT ALL to do with it either positively or negatively.

Lots of people here express great pleasure in combat logging (be it menu exit or alt+F4) on players to extract salt. That is no different to someone expressing great pleasure in destroying players to extract salt. If one is griefing so is the other.

If you do not see that logic you are a griefer too

 

[Siobhan]

The challenge is to destroy the menu logger within the 15 secs. It can be done.

That's a challenge?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Lots of people here express great pleasure in combat logging (be it menu exit or alt+F4) on players to extract salt. That is no different to someone expressing great pleasure in destroying players to extract salt. If one is griefing so is the other.

If you do not see that logic you are a griefer too

Some Commanders even weaponize combat logging and menu logging. Obviously, that’s utter rubbish as well. Would have a hard time seeing ANYONE claim that was not griefing.

 

[Krash]

That's a challenge?

For some gankers apparently it is. There's a lot of complaining on here about loggers getting away with their assets and getting griefed by loggers so I assume there's a level of difficulty in destroying a ship within the logout timelimit. Simple deductive reasoning.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

For some gankers apparently it is. There's a lot of complaining on here about loggers getting away with their assets and getting griefed by loggers so I assume there's a level of difficulty in destroying a ship within the logout timelimit. Simple deductive reasoning.

Can confirm, 15 seconds goes by pretty fast. Well shielded and armored ships are hardly an easy kill.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Some Commanders even weaponize combat logging and menu logging. Obviously, that’s utter rubbish as well. Would have a hard time seeing ANYONE claim that was not griefing.

Complicated fire group, that.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Complicated fire group, that.

Whipping a wing of four Anacondas (who are obviously bad flyers) only to see them drop and return at full health is absolutely devestating to one’s morale!

 

[Siobhan]

For some gankers apparently it is. There's a lot of complaining on here about loggers getting away with their assets and getting griefed by loggers so I assume there's a level of difficulty in destroying a ship within the logout timelimit. Simple deductive reasoning.

Can confirm, 15 seconds goes by pretty fast. Well shielded and armored ships are hardly an easy kill.

I'm told one can fix this by fitting something called "weapons" to the outside of the ship. There are even slots on some to fit them to.
Of course, if the gankee fits one of those shield thingamabobs then all bets are off...

Maybe I've been reading the wrong threads though.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I'm told one can fix this by fitting something called "weapons" to the outside of the ship. There are even slots on some to fit them to.
Of course, if the gankee fits one of those shield thingamabobs then all bets are off...

Maybe I've been reading the wrong threads though.

Are you that shocked that pilots don’t kill every ship they pull, or are you just trolling?

 

[Jimbodiah]

They should ban people for bringing up this topic time-and-time again.