The 15 second logout timer in action

[Comrade Napoleon]

As an old player, who has not played in a year and a half, I find it amusing that the topics discussed have not changed. The rebuy. Combat logging. Exploits. "he did that and did this". In a way it is like coming home to a a house, you forgot you left, because the inhabitants were too loud... Some things never change, or they do ,but it is at a cosmic scale and we dont notice. I feel no change here, still petty bickering, about a measly 12 million credits. Cant rebuy, dont fly! But this guy has 4,5 billion! Greed is good, said Gordon Gecko, I suppose it is human nature.
I will recede into my voluntary hiatus once more, and let you freewheeling bandits do your thing. But ohh no, I am not leaving, just busy and have been for a year, but when my new 3000 quid computer starts arriving, with the Occulos ill be lurking in the shadows. Expect me around the autumn breaks earlist, winter break I will be here.

Cheers Cmdr's

 

[cmdrrdmc]

I know a guy from Jiu-Jitsu that is absolutely fearless, even when going up against world champions etc.
When speaking of an opponent to the coach one day, he said,

"He puts his pants on just like me."

I found his kryptonite:

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...evable-story-high-school-wrestler-zion-shaver

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I found his kryptonite:

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/st...evable-story-high-school-wrestler-zion-shaver

Hahaha, I was thinking half of the posters here probably aren't wearing any either.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Hahaha, I was thinking half of the posters here probably aren't wearing any either.

When I'm gaming, all I ever wear is a HOTAS, VR, and a big smile

 

[IndigoWyrd]

That's what's known as "straddling the fence" or alternatively "walking on eggshells around a delicate topic." Your primary take-away, if you understand the concept of reading between the lines, should be that Sandro recognizes that the timer needs to be increased during danger phases due to the fact that it's being used in a way that they did not intend. Additionally, they recognize that the community of players by and large regard using the menu log option during combat is indeed an act of poor sportsmanship.

Someday Fdev will rectify this issue by increasing the timer to an amount that actually reflects a: their intentions and b:the massive increases in shielding inflation granted by engineering in the time since the menu timer was first implemented.

If they feel the timer needs increased, they'll increase it. If they don't, they won't.
But at the end of the day, regardless of how long that timer is, exiting the game, at any time, for any reason, by use of the menu, remains a fully sanctioned, legitimate way to end the game, no matter what else might be going on at that time, be it sitting idle in a space station or in the heat of battle. You're free to like or dislike this as much as you desire, but it remains the inactionable, unrefutable and sancationed means of exiting the game at any time.

I don't really have a dog in this fight - I couldn't care less about PvP, I find it penultimately boring. I am not concerned with the BGS or Power Play, so I don't go around engaging other players. I don't mind that others do, and enjoy it, that's their business. However, I am not here to provide anyone else with entertainment, as I am not paid to do so. If you would like to engage me as a source of personal entertainment, you may do so at SAG union rates - $825.50 per four hours, otherwise you do your thing, I'll do mine, and we'll all be happy in the end.

And while I appreciate your Appeal to Probability, you have no more idea what, if anything, Fdev will do than any of the rest of us, Nostradamus. I'm pretty sure we wind up kicking each other in the teeth every time this topic comes up, and we're never going to convince each other who is right and who is wrong. Odds are we're both right and wrong.

 

[Smaste]

If they feel the timer needs increased, they'll increase it. If they don't, they won't.
But at the end of the day, regardless of how long that timer is, exiting the game, at any time, for any reason, by use of the menu, remains a fully sanctioned, legitimate way to end the game, no matter what else might be going on at that time, be it sitting idle in a space station or in the heat of battle. You're free to like or dislike this as much as you desire, but it remains the inactionable, unrefutable and sancationed means of exiting the game at any time.

I don't really have a dog in this fight - I couldn't care less about PvP, I find it penultimately boring. I am not concerned with the BGS or Power Play, so I don't go around engaging other players. I don't mind that others do, and enjoy it, that's their business. However, I am not here to provide anyone else with entertainment, as I am not paid to do so. If you would like to engage me as a source of personal entertainment, you may do so at SAG union rates - $825.50 per four hours, otherwise you do your thing, I'll do mine, and we'll all be happy in the end.

And while I appreciate your Appeal to Probability, you have no more idea what, if anything, Fdev will do than any of the rest of us, Nostradamus. I'm pretty sure we wind up kicking each other in the teeth every time this topic comes up, and we're never going to convince each other who is right and who is wrong. Odds are we're both right and wrong.

imagine thinking this highly of yourself for clogging... yikes

$825 every four hours. my god man.

I'd get my entertainment for a tenner behind the gas station.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

imagine thinking this highly of yourself for clogging... yikes

$825 every four hours. my god man.

I'd get my entertainment for a tenner behind the gas station.

Except that I didn't do it, and I don't do it because I don't PvP.

And I don't set the SAG rates, the Screen Actor's Guild does: https://abspayroll.com/sag-rates-2018/

 

[jasonbarron]

If they feel the timer needs increased, they'll increase it. If they don't, they won't.
But at the end of the day, regardless of how long that timer is, exiting the game, at any time, for any reason, by use of the menu, remains a fully sanctioned, legitimate way to end the game, no matter what else might be going on at that time, be it sitting idle in a space station or in the heat of battle. You're free to like or dislike this as much as you desire, but it remains the inactionable, unrefutable and sancationed means of exiting the game at any time.

I don't really have a dog in this fight - I couldn't care less about PvP, I find it penultimately boring. I am not concerned with the BGS or Power Play, so I don't go around engaging other players. I don't mind that others do, and enjoy it, that's their business. However, I am not here to provide anyone else with entertainment, as I am not paid to do so. If you would like to engage me as a source of personal entertainment, you may do so at SAG union rates - $825.50 per four hours, otherwise you do your thing, I'll do mine, and we'll all be happy in the end.

And while I appreciate your Appeal to Probability, you have no more idea what, if anything, Fdev will do than any of the rest of us, Nostradamus. I'm pretty sure we wind up kicking each other in the teeth every time this topic comes up, and we're never going to convince each other who is right and who is wrong. Odds are we're both right and wrong.

What do your SAG rates have to do with the price of tea in China?

 

[Mohrgan]

I'd let you shoot me up for 1/2 SAG rate. And I won't even charge the first four hr rate up front. You can get me for like $100.00/Hr, by the hour. Deal?

If you want, I'll even shoot back. I'm flexible.

 

[jasonbarron]

If I'm going to pay you that kind of money per hour for services rendered, I'm not going to be shooting you up

 

[Mohrgan]

If I'm going to pay you that kind of money per hour for services rendered, I'm not going to be shooting you up

We may have to negotiate terms then. Remember, it's all about Risk Vs. Reward.

 

[Majic-12]

I was reading this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/442697-Opinions-on-combat-logging and decided to try out the timer at the CG when sure enough, immediately griefed non-stop by wanted players who want me to be their content.

No offense, but I think you have this backwards.

Griefers just want to be your content.

 

[M00ka]

First off, a "PvP PG" in the sense that it's being used in this argument is basically an oxymoron. Sure, there are situations where people might practice with one another in a PG, and even credible PvPers might stage epic wing combat scenarios in a PG, but in general to get gud at combat and be proficient at bare knuckles PvP, you have to take the training wheels, helmets, knee pads and other safety gear off and go experience it in it's most raw form, otherwise you're just the guy learning karate for a year who does nothing but study kata and gets a black belt and then gets his rear end kicked in the first real bar fight he gets in with people who actually fight all the time with "no rules."

More to your point, though, is the question of "easy" targets vs what people like you/Silveria/rlsg etc who don't engage in PvP and probably don't even play in Open consistently consider "worthy" targets: setting aside the genuine griefers who's gameplay consists of literally nothing but hanging out at stations during CG's looking for ways to harass people, most PvPers such as myself who have absolutely no qualms destroying other players in what you would no doubt consider asymmetrical combat (and when it comes to combat, if it's a PvPer against a PvEer it's automatically "asymmetrical"), absolutely love to fight other PvPers/opponents on "fair" terms. It goes on constantly at CG's, at San Tu, at Wyrd etc; PvPers love to fight other people who are "worthy" and give as good as they get. With that said, think of PvPers who fit that profile who also like to prey on easier targets at times as killing for sport--sport and challenge are both fun at the right time, in other words. Most of these types of players have no interest in CQC because it's silly and bears little to no relationship to ED. Give us an entire system with zones to control, an arena with ranking systems and classes where we can can enter our "real" ships and modules against similar builds, throw in some financial rewards....PvPers would be all over that. I know I sure would.

Nice reply, thank you and yes I now admit I was probably in error lumping all PvP under the one label and for that I do apologise if I offended anyone. I guess I had read too many 'horror' stories of people being ganked or griefed although neither have happened to me. Oh and just for clarification, yes I do play in Open, exclusively for the last couple of months now although I am yet to see another hollow square or triangle where I am. Having said that, I will still flick to PG if I have heading to a Guardian site or a well known location like Jameson, call me overly cautious if you want.

 

[Guest 161958]

So childish

I totally agree. Completely harmless combat rank.


Fairness should be dictated by yourself not by a countdown timer. Until you learn to be fair in sports just hide somewhere and cry for your lack of honour.

 

[V'larr]

Only compromise I can think of to the c-log debacle is one I've voiced before a time or two in the past, and one I've seen other people bring up as well (so I know it's at least a little obvious):

Have an AI take over where the logged-off player left off. The player who didn't log off still gets their encounter and rewards, the player that did log off gets nothing except perhaps a light slap on the wrist in the form of not being allowed to log back in Open for a short time period, and thus both players can move on and enjoy themselves.

That and for the love of pete just give us what we want and make an official PvE mode...or start paying Mobius to do the job that he's been doing for you. -.-

 

[Smaste]

Only compromise I can think of to the c-log debacle is one I've voiced before a time or two in the past, and one I've seen other people bring up as well (so I know it's at least a little obvious):

Have an AI take over where the logged-off player left off. The player who didn't log off still gets their encounter and rewards, the player that did log off gets nothing except perhaps a light slap on the wrist in the form of not being allowed to log back in Open for a short time period, and thus both players can move on and enjoy themselves.

That and for the love of pete just give us what we want and make an official PvE mode...or start paying Mobius to do the job that he's been doing for you. -.-

agreed.

even better would be if the NPC was a hotfix unmentioned and the name of the ship didn't change... then it'd at least seem like the issue isn't as big rather than just creating a new term and justifying it.

 

[Vorxian]

Log out timer is nothing but an annoying loophole in the law.

In the UK everyone and their dog uses loop holes to shirk the law, so we're used to 'rules' actually hindering things than helping!

If log out timer is annoying for you, I guess it's one of those loop holes that so plague our modern age.

There's a counter for log out timer log outs. The moment your adversarial nemesis starts flying straight, and no activity appears to be happening, then, they have already hit the log, and now you can save yourself 10 seconds by charging FSD and finding someone else. Do this another 6 times and you can save yourselves a whole minute of not wasting time shooting specters. I call that a counter (to wasted time).

 

[Smaste]

Log out timer is nothing but an annoying loophole in the law.

In the UK everyone and their dog uses loop holes to shirk the law, so we're used to 'rules' actually hindering things than helping!

If log out timer is annoying for you, I guess it's one of those loop holes that so plague our modern age.

There's a counter for log out timer log outs. The moment your adversarial nemesis starts flying straight, and no activity appears to be happening, then, they have already hit the log, and now you can save yourself 10 seconds by charging FSD and finding someone else. Do this another 6 times and you can save yourselves a whole minute of not wasting time shooting specters. I call that a counter (to wasted time).

Nah I just liquefy their assets as quickly as possible.

Usually loltorps and PA spam. If they want to log I'm at least making them pay for a new shield generator

Maybe a griefer will wreck them when they try to dock at a station. That'd make my day.

 

[Sylveria]

That and for the love of pete just give us what we want and make an official PvE mode...or start paying Mobius to do the job that he's been doing for you. -.-

"But... but... it would split the playerbase!!!!" Yeah, it's already "split" sorry.

Agree completely- it needs to happen, and the fact that there are so many people who joined Mobius to begin with should be testament enough that it's wanted and needed by a pretty sizable portion of the community. For those who dabble in a bit of both, it's still available to them to do so.

For PvErs to get "table scraps" in the form of PG's when they've broken the group limit multiple times is Beyond ridiculous, IMO.

EDIT: I'd surely speculate that the majority of "combat logging" people complain about would disappear if Open PvE were a thing.

 

[Morbad]

wasting time shooting specters.

If you're shooting a specter it usually means an unclean connection loss, not a menu log out. Ships using the menu disappear almost immediately after the timer and take damage almost to the end, while a disconnection requires the ship to time out, which can take several seconds during which no damage is taken and the last input is usually repeated.

A ship flying straight doesn't necessarily mean they are logging off either. If the velocities of the vessels in question are close enough and the pursuer doesn't have long range weapons, fleeing in a straight line, as risky as it is, may be the only way to open up distance. Also, if a ship's thrusters are disabled or unpowered (either from damage or during a reboot) the ship will be adrift, flying in a straight line on whatever vector it had prior to the thrusters shutting down.

Indeed, I regularly encounter situations where a logout or disconnection is assumed, and people turn back, when, in reality the vessel being perused just went dark.

Here's an example:
[video=youtube;2CIipa0YHZs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CIipa0YHZs[/video]

My wingman was pulled over, fought his attacker for a bit, had his thrusters shot out, after which the attacker apparently left when he couldn't immediately reacquire contact...either that or he specifically left the ship stricken as bait for my CMDR, but that's a far less likely scenario as it requires a string of unlikely assumption to be true.

I call that a counter (to wasted time).

Still not a counter to the time wasted prior to them disconnecting/logging out.

My CMDR has been in situations where he's chased, or been chased, for hours...sometimes across multiple sessions, and either side would rightly have been irked if the climax of the encounter was the other party deciding they've misjudged and logging off instead of escaping or being shot down via in-game means.

I'd surely speculate that the majority of "combat logging" people complain about would disappear if Open PvE were a thing.

I'm extremely doubtful of this.

As a player whose CMDR rarely initiates hostilities and almost never carries an interdictor, almost all of the deliberate disconnecting, and most of the menu logging, I see are on the part of the aggressors.

Combat logging needs to be recognized for what it is...not an understandable action when confronted with apparent griefing, but as a prime griefing tool, habitually used to undermine the legitimate gameplay of others.