Opinions on combat logging

[Rampant]

There is literally no difference, that's the thing you seem to fail to grasp.

You are logging out during combat.

That is combat logging.

Look at literally any other game and find me one that describes it in the same way FD do.

FD cannot be bothered to fix it, it's as simple as that.

There *LITERALLY* is a difference. The distinction is one of FDev's own deliberate declaration. Not just some "random" at FDev, as I've seen you write previously. This was decided, deliberately and with forethought and by careful and extended consideration, then re-considered at length on more than one occassion, by the game's LEAD DESIGNER. FDev's definition is *LITERALLY* as follows:

1. Combat Logging - (note the initial capitals - they're important) - Combat Logging is a reportable and punishable offence. Combat Logging is defined, by FDev, as ungraceful exit by means of deliberate Task Kill or deliberate Network Interruption. Combat Logging is considered an exploit.

2. Menu Logging - (note the initial capitals - again, they're important) - Exiting the game via the Menu Exit option is fair and valid at any moment of any player's choosing, regardless of in game circumstance.


Please feel free to use the words "combat logging" in reference to Menu Exit during PvP combat (without initial capitals). That is all fine.
But please also note the fact that you don't have any authority to foist your opinion of it onto any other player and say that combat logging via Menu Exit is objectively a "bad" thing. Objectively, combat logging is not a bad thing. Objectively - combat logging is fair and acceptable at any moment of any player's choosing. On the other hand - Combat Logging is not fair or acceptable, according to the game designer's set code of conduct and is therefore a bad thing.
You are, of course, totally free to state your own opinion on combat logging, noting that your own opinion is a subjective one, and not one that can be foisted onto other players as an objective truth or personal code of conduct.

Surely, by all that is conscionable, you can you see and understand the distinction by now? Using the terms combat logging and Combat Logging is just a poor choice because it leads your reader to have to think about your words more carefully and could easily be seen as a deliberate ploy to conflate the terms and confuse the situation for some reason or another.

So please feel free to continue with your comments on combat logging as opposed to Combat Logging. Just as others will feel free to remind you that your use of the term combat logging (vice Combat Logging) is muddying the pre-defined distinction that the game designer has *LITERALLY* laid out in black and white.

However, for the sake of free and uninterrupted discussion, it might prove to be better if you adopt the game designer's *LITERAL* definition, but that is entirely up to you. Do as you see fit. Others will also do as they see fit in response in the following discussion...

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[Rampant]

I'm confused...why would any pilot enter into a "fair" combat IE: outcome is reasonably likely to go against them?

Because it's a game and that player possesses something called "sportsmanship".

Wouldn't any sensible CMDR only engage when either numeric or ship superiority makes a risk-free kill likely?

Nope, that kind of behaviour is without honour, integrity or sportsmanship. I would also add that it is evidently the same players that use words on the forum such as "This is Elite *Dangerous* - it says *Dangerous* on the title", without having the presence of mind to realise that what they are doing is something that renders the game Not Dangerous to themselves. Kind of like a "Do as I say, not as I do" person. Just an observation.
If they really had any integrity, then they'd place themselves in just as much danger as they are deliberately putting onto other players - and then seeing who has the better *skill*, rather than the better equipment or numbers. This is what one does in any "game".

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[stormyuk]

Frontier's would be nice

I thought we had that too, closing the programme/game or "pulling the network" is combat logging and logging out correctly in game with the 15s cooldown isn't. I am not sure why they would post anything else unless they changed their stance.

 

[Riverside]

Because it's a game and that player possesses something called "sportsmanship".



Nope, that kind of behaviour is without honour, integrity or sportsmanship. I would also add that it is evidently the same players that use words on the forum such as "This is Elite *Dangerous* - it says *Dangerous* on the title", without having the presence of mind to realise that what they are doing is something that renders the game Not Dangerous to themselves. Kind of like a "Do as I say, not as I do" person. Just an observation.
If they really had any integrity, then they'd place themselves in just as much danger as they are deliberately putting onto other players - and then seeing who has the better *skill*, rather than the better equipment or numbers. This is what one does in any "game".

Yours Aye

Mark H

Honour will get you killed.

I quite like organised or spontaneous but agreed fights, usually one concedes rather than going all the way to ship destruction ime and it's a good way to make friends & test a build.

But there is no room for complacency or trust that some rule of honour will be upheld. Play to your own rules, don't expect (or demand) others stick to your rules too.

 

[Riverside]

I thought we had that too, closing the programme/game or "pulling the network" is combat logging and logging out correctly in game with the 15s cooldown isn't. I am not sure why they would post anything else unless they changed their stance.

Yeah as far as opinion, or stance on the matter is concerned I think it's pretty clear.

What rules FDev think can be applied once the standard falls below acceptable is not clear at all. I started a thread last summer (immediately following the 5-for-1 exploit went public) in an attempt to throw a bone to the freeform PvP crowd - to show that all exploits are important. Frontier said they'd monitor the thread but there was never a response.


Combat Logging Punishment Proposal Thread

 

[philngraves]

Wow and here I was thinking surely we can't need anymore opinions on combat logging.

Tsk, Tsk... What have we learned?

 

[philngraves]

Hey Sandro, you should release E: D with no forced player interaction and single player only. Combat has to be initiated by the player. Call it 'Space Road Truckers' and sell it as a new game. Judging from this thread, I think it would sell quite well...

 

[Bigmaec]

Hey Sandro, you should release E: D with no forced player interaction and single player only. Combat has to be initiated by the player. Call it 'Space Road Truckers' and sell it as a new game. Judging from this thread, I think it would sell quite well...

It would propably sell better then Elite: PvP Edition

 

[philngraves]

So the site says Sandro is reading this thread now... guess we won't be seeing any posts from him for a few weeks... lol

 

[Riverside]

So the site says Sandro is reading this thread now... guess we won't be seeing any posts from him for a few weeks... lol

Seems to me the cool thing to do would be not to bring attention to it.

My profile is hidden, you can't see my name in the list. They could do that too...

 

[philngraves]

Seems to me the cool thing to do would be not to bring attention to it.

My profile is hidden, you can't see my name in the list. They could do that too...

Was more of a sadness thing... person could get lost in this thread and never find their way out. Like ever, ever...

 

[Karacetamol]

Last night, I had a wanted anaconda log on me when I attacked him. He had a bounty - he says it was only 5,100, but it’s still a bounty. I’m in a chieftain, and he logged on me. He could’ve high-waked, he could’ve done a lot of stuff aside from log. He outgunned me, outlived me, and had fighters. And they logged.

Not okay.

 

[Riverside]

Last night, I had a wanted anaconda log on me when I attacked him. He had a bounty - he says it was only 5,100, but it’s still a bounty. I’m in a chieftain, and he logged on me. He could’ve high-waked, he could’ve done a lot of stuff aside from log. He outgunned me, outlived me, and had fighters. And they logged.

Not okay.

Not last night but the night before, I met a wanted Novice Anaconda Cmdr in supercruise. I could have interdicted them & claimed whatever their bounty was worth, instead I asked them their story & helped them find an interstellar factor to pay it off. AFAIK they are still playing in Open. I wonder if yours is?

Not condoning CLogging by any stretch, but players aren't NPCs, there are more options available than just shooting.

 

[philngraves]

Not last night but the night before, I met a wanted Novice Anaconda Cmdr in supercruise. I could have interdicted them & claimed whatever their bounty was worth, instead I asked them their story & helped them find an interstellar factor to pay it off. AFAIK they are still playing in Open. I wonder if yours is?

Not condoning CLogging by any stretch, but players aren't NPCs, there are more options available than just shooting.

Watergate doesn't invoke the scandal that your words contain. I can hear slack jaws slapping the floor and brain cells fizzling out of existence even now...

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Not last night but the night before, I met a wanted Novice Anaconda Cmdr in supercruise. I could have interdicted them & claimed whatever their bounty was worth, instead I asked them their story & helped them find an interstellar factor to pay it off. AFAIK they are still playing in Open. I wonder if yours is?

Not condoning CLogging by any stretch, but players aren't NPCs, there are more options available than just shooting.

Only 2.8% of CMDRs won't shoot a wanted CMDR.

 

[philngraves]

Only 2.8% of CMDRs won't shoot a wander CMDR.

Lines are blurred... threads are crossed...

 

[Riverside]

wander

Heh, I am the Wayward Wanderer

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

... 2.8% of the time my autocorrect is .

 

[philngraves]

... 2.8% of the time my autocorrect is .

Well, that is a hell of an improvement over google.

 

[Jockey79]

Was more of a sadness thing... person could get lost in this thread and never find their way out. Like ever, ever...

This thread is a baby, you want to try the Modes sub forum and one of the older S.O.G threads.

That area of the forums, you need to prep for. Snacks, energy drinks, medics on standby - I've seen less vicious MMA fights than that section of the forums.