News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

[mossfoot]

Yes, that would be the way to go. Treat all scanner types in the same way as shields are treated now. Only one type (as in old versus new) per ship, even though it should be clear that such a limitation is artificial (in both cases, shields and scanners), mainly for gameplay purposes. Then we would have a compromise without compromising either the new scanner suite or the old one. Co-existence in game but never in one and the same ship. Works for me.

In a way the main reason I even consider supporting the compromise was something Zijan said eariler. We have 80 types of weapons in the game... but only 2 exploration related scanners.

Things like the Xeno scanner are hard to count because, at least right now, they are used for exactly one thing - doing actively to Thargoid ships what we already passively do to human ships (if you can get within 500m of one). There's literally no reason to have one that I can think of unless you're specifically hunting for Thargoid data for some kind of tech upgrade - it's more akin to a Wake scanner than anything.

 

[Angus]

Why not apply that approach to other parts of the game then, hmmm? Normal FSD for people who want to travel the normal way, & insta-travel for those who want to get to Colonia in a more "convenient" manner. Or combat where some players can choose to fight normally, but give the option of an insta kill button.

Can I have the infinite cargo hold please. 'cos I want the triple Elite bragging rights but I get bored hauling.


;-)

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yes this could work, but only if it couldn't give distances and it couldn't have selectable objects. Otherwise it would defeat the whole purpose of the new mechanic to locate the source of a signal. If you know it's direction and distance, then you really are just moving sliders to cut-n-paste system map data ad nauseum. Causing you to swap back and forth between two screens that AREN'T the cockpit: Scanner interface & System Map. That would be both brain dead busy work and extremely annoying, with little to no mystery or problem solving involved.

This is exactly why I don't think a compromise of any kind will really work, and the best solution is just allow both sets of modules, OLD and NEW in the game at the same time. But with no mixing of the two sets.

Yup. No distances, no information apart from the grey globes. That is the only way it could work.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Robot probe ships are laughing at all of us.

Sidney the Sidewinder is starting to treat NPC clients that have gone "space crazy" mapping the Magellanic Clouds....

(My Sidewinder is a licensed NPC AI counselor. He has to have *something* to do)

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It's a long story.

Galnet vaguely hinted at specific new devices for enhanced ship interaction being developed for the expo in october. Then hinted at it again. And again for a third time, not so subtly either. Then after a few weeks *surprise* the factory producing this stuff was sabotaged and the presentation was reprioritized™.

Since the description of these new gadgets was something incredibly similar to what fdevs shown us in old concept arts, the imagination of some of us went wild.





So, no new livestream this week?

We were told long time ago that this was just fluff. It was never part of new mechanics that was supposed to be coming.

 

[Faded Glory]

Yes this could work, but only if it couldn't give distances and it couldn't have selectable objects.

No one (I think) has suggested that the objects in the system map should be selectable - I certainly haven't, have stated clearly (I thought) every time that if the system map shows stuff of interest to a player, they then use the new mechanics proposed to locate and scan those objects.

Distance it immaterial now surely, as you don't (under the current proposal) have to fly to an object to scan it so it makes no difference if that body you want to scan is 1ls or 100,000ls from you, it only becomes a thing if you want to probe / map it. And as said before, that optional but interactive game-play would be determined to be 'worth it' by information gleaned from the previous scan / zoom, which is both logical, and gives the player the ability to make a choice to do something or not before they actually do it.

 

[Ziljan]

No one (I think) has suggested that the objects in the system map should be selectable - I certainly haven't, have stated clearly (I thought) every time that if the system map shows stuff of interest to a player, they then use the new mechanics proposed to locate and scan those objects.

Distance it immaterial now surely, as you don't (under the current proposal) have to fly to an object to scan it so it makes no difference if that body you want to scan is 1ls or 100,000ls from you, it only becomes a thing if you want to probe / map it. And as said before, that optional but interactive game-play would be determined to be 'worth it' by information gleaned from the previous scan / zoom, which is both logical, and gives the player the ability to make a choice to do something or not before they actually do it.

Knowing the distance would unravel the entire mechanic. If you know the distance, just set the distance filter and the distribution signal gets reduced to a single blip on the spectrum. It's like a magician asking you to "pick a card any card" and he is only holding ONE card. Knowing the distance reduces the mystery & seeking to "copy-n-paste from the system map".

 

[Angus]

I agree. I think most would just adapt how they play the game and carry on.

Its more a case for me about how long I'll continue with the system as it is. We've been waiting so long for it to be developed. Sure it's useable, but it should be so much more.

I find the idea, of when you jump into an unscanned system, for it to essentially be a dark room, and you need to explore it with a torch to search out its mysteries, to be pretty darned exciting. Especially, as the need for long and fruitless cruises will no longer exist. I think it'll change the nature of Space in the game, and when you do that, its going to alarm some people. Clearly some of them are exploration fans, but people who aren't, probably will regard it as an unnecessary use of resources and a potential inconvenience to them. As I say though, I'm feeling pretty positive about it, and can't wait to see how it plays in the Beta.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Knowing the distance would unravel the entire mechanic. If you know the distance, just set the distance filter and the distribution signal gets reduced to a single blip on the spectrum. It's like a magician asking you to "pick a card any card" and he is only holding ONE card. Knowing the distance reduces the mystery & seeking to "copy-n-paste from the system map".

Agreed. If we know distances again it makes 90% of the new mechanics null and void. It makes them not make any sense as we already know exactly where they are.

 

[Faded Glory]

Knowing the distance would unravel the entire mechanic. If you know the distance, just set the distance filter and the distribution signal gets reduced to a single blip on the spectrum. It's like a magician asking you to "pick a card any card" and he is only holding ONE card. Knowing the distance reduces the mystery & seeking to "copy-n-paste from the system map".

Fair enough. I haven't really seen the distance filter or heard it explained, only the energy wave graph, but I agree, if you can filter bodies by distance then that would trivialize the new mechanic.

But as in my previous post, since we can scan objects without actually flying to them, not having that information available would make no difference either.

 

[mossfoot]

[video=youtube_share;RyEOSkc_K6w]https://youtu.be/RyEOSkc_K6w[/video]

 

[Ziljan]

Fair enough. I haven't really seen the distance filter or heard it explained, only the energy wave graph, but I agree, if you can filter bodies by distance then that would trivialize the new mechanic.

But as in my previous post, since we can scan objects without actually flying to them, not having that information available would make no difference either.

You can filter for distance, but it doesn't trivialize the mechanic because you don't know the distances to begin with. Think of it like a focus on a camera. It's also one of the primary strengths of the new system for people looking for terraformables. If you are an experienced explorer, you will know the general range at which to look for planets, though this does vary based on several qualities: the green house gases in the atmosphere, active vulcanism, the number and position of stars in the system, and also the radiation from gas giants can be enough in certain systems to keep an ELW warm as well. So there is enough variation that the expected goldilocks zone doesn't remove all the guess work and mystery.

You are able to tune the focus of your sensors to a particular point on the scale, making emissions from objects at this range much clearer, at the cost of filtering out signals returned from bodies not emitting at this range.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If the value of the planets/stars means nothing to you, then merely knowing there are stellar bodies in the system should be sufficient for you. Why do you need to instantly know what kind of planets they are & precisely what they look like?

Have you tried reading posts?

I find that an excellent way to get to grips with differing ideas and sentiments.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Have you tried reading posts?

I find that an excellent way to get to grips with differing ideas and sentiments.

I don't have time to be doing with all that reading.
I just want to cherry-pick valuable words out of the text while I watch Netflix.

 

[Faded Glory]

You can filter for distance, but it doesn't trivialize the mechanic because you don't know the distances to begin with. Think of it like a focus on a camera. It's also one of the primary strengths of the new system for people looking for terraformables. If you are an experienced explorer, you will know the general range at which to look for planets, though this does vary based on several qualities: the green house gases in the atmosphere, active vulcanism, the number and position of stars in the system, and also the radiation from gas giants can be enough in certain systems to keep an ELW warm as well. So there is enough variation that the expected goldilocks zone doesn't remove all the guess work and mystery.

Indeed, I see that now, and have just found the bit on the livestream where they talk about setting the distance range on the scanner. So yes, I completely agree that in that case any system map reveal (if it were implemented) should not include distances. And that does indeed allow players to build knowledge and experience and actively use that with the new scanning mechanics.

I had taken that comment to mean you could filter out the energy distribution line to only show bodies emitting at particular wavelengths, which seemed to me to trivialize the mechanic too. However, I'm not sure that you can do that, which IMHO is fine. It is in any case a visual clue (same principle as the SRV scanner) so players looking for particular types of bodies will be able concentrate on that area of the energy distribution line which might indicate that body type although all levels of the spectrum will show.

 

[disorganise]

I don't have time to be doing with all that reading.
I just want to cherry-pick valuable words out of the text while I watch Netflix.

LOL

 

[aRJay]

How I would like the new system to work in a system with no Nav beacon is as follows.

1 Arrive in system.
2 Use the discovery scanner (Honk).
3 The Honk returns the number of bodies in the system in the info window of the HUD much as at present
4 The option to switch to detailed scan is enabled.
5 When you think it is safe and within a time limit of honk you can switch to the Discovery Scanner UI and utilise the new mechanic.
6 Either map bodies of interest or move on to the next system.

You get basic discovery fees for the honk and enhanced fees for each body resolved in the detailed scan mapping would add further rewards and all would get you a name tag if you get the data home first.

In a known system with a Nav beacon and everything I think the honk would in addition to letting you know how many bodies were in the system and not in your navigational database would also interrogate the Nav beacon an pick up data from it, the trouble with this is I don't see how to rationalise what you do to get payments for this but I am sure it will come to me or more likely some of the cleverer posters here.

 

[Habu2u]

So now we're looking forward to at least three weeks before we even see a livestream related to Chapter 4, and no assurance that the first Q4 livestream will even cover exploration. I hope they take those three weeks and actively review all the information here and show us how much/little of this thread has been incorporated into the beta version of ED Chapter 4. Hopefully the circular arguments and argued metaphors slow down, or by the end of three weeks, we'll be so burned out, no answer from FD will satisfy any of us.
Regards

 

[Ralph Vargr]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signals_intelligence

Sometimes needed to understand messages from Frontier...

 

[disorganise]

I like the dual scanner option but I'm unconvinced it should be a decision you're forced to live with for months at a time (no outfitting in the black). I'd rather have the choice be a toggle, perhaps via firegroup, so you have a choice. Once choice is made for that system, you're stuck with it for that system.

On the flip side......
As we jump through the galaxy we're exploring it (imo). Arriving at a system we discover the system. Then we might explore a world and discover POIs. Then explore the POI and discover cargo, mystery, a puzzle etc.
I'm back at questioning putting the skill game over the discover versus the explore.
How about the ADS remains doing what it has been? Perhaps even *add* more info to it (oh the herecy) such as material composition so if you're looking for synthesis you're saved the time of unnecessary travel, and let it give the system discovered tag.
The new proposed gui is then reappropriated from being a system discovery mechanic to a body exploration mechanic. Similar energy wave pattern to distance fine tuning idea, but now you're locating the POIs on a body. Either this is how the probes themselves actually work, the probes aren't needed anymore (boo), or, this phase identifies the general location of the POI and *then* you get to launch your probe to go take a closer look (rather than be in and out of orbital cruise multiple times).

Fwiw, probing non landables makes no sense to me. Are we going to have POIs we can't get to? Why?