News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

[GJ51]

EXACTLY, well said sir. At least two of us are looking at the bigger picture!

Yeah, the more you think about it the more you wonder if anyone has considered all the consequences. What if you are in a new system in the bubble you've not been to before. What are you going to see in the navigation panel? If you do a mission, will you have to do the signal "tea leaf" reading in order to complete the mission?

How will this affect systems we've already been to? Will previously scanned systems be deprecated if all we did was a honk?

Typically, I don't think anyone has really thought much about how such a radical paradigm shift may have unintended consequences.

Just throw something in that sounds good and see what happens? Great design methodology...

I've raised this issue a few times, but I don't get much feedback on it. Seems like many just want to whistle past the graveyard on this one.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yeah, the more you think about it the more you wonder if anyone has considered all the consequences. What if you are in a new system in the bubble you've not been to before. What are you going to see in the navigation panel? If you do a mission, will you have to do the signal "tea leaf" reading in order to complete the mission?

How will this affect systems we've already been to? Will previously scanned systems be deprecated if all we did was a honk?

Typically, I don't think anyone has really thought much about how such a radical paradigm shift may have unintended consequences.

Just throw something in that sounds good and see what happens? Great design methodology...

I've raised this issue a few times, but I don't get much feedback on it. Seems like many just want to whistle past the graveyard on this one.

Its not going to be that hard to fix- leaving out however the SpaceBinocualrs work:

Missions automatically give you the nav data you need (station, planet etc)

Use the nav point

 

[GJ51]

Its not going to be that hard to fix- ...

Yeah - I forgot what a great track record FD has on this sort of stuff...

 

[Rubbernuke]

Yeah - I forgot what a great track record FD has on this sort of stuff...

Well, one is already in the game, the other can't be that hard to include (although never say never).

 

[HAMM3R]

I second that, although IMHO in that case there should be a new module available in store - the backup-generator so You can use an AFMU to repair the power-plant as well

Or make the AFMUs operate under their own, independent power source.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Or have regenerating Thargoid heart powerplants and modules, the drawback being you can't equip Guardian modules.

 

[Ian Skippy]

EXACTLY, well said sir. At least two of us are looking at the bigger picture!

Or, alternatively, maybe other people know that you already dont need an ADS to locate stations, outposts and surface ports in the game.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Well, one is already in the game, the other can't be that hard to include (although never say never).

You can buy the data as well.

 

[Rubbernuke]

You can buy the data as well.

True, I forgot about that.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

So FD have spent the last year making exploration safer because people complained about being boiled up on jumping, and now you want to make it dangerous again. The wheel just keeps on spinning...

Did you miss the bit where I said (a) you'd need to specifically be in an area that is "hotter" & "more unstable" & (b) you'd get sufficient warning of any eruption before it happens. Long enough to evade it if you're paying attention.

Sheesh, why do so many people want to play this game in their sleep? Yet they're the ones who also frequently complain about finding the game "boring".

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Sheesh, some people really need to read posts *properly*. What I was talking about was a "risk/reward" situation. Players who aren't fuel scooping, & players who are happy to fuel nice & slowly would have little to fear from my suggestion (unless they go AFK whilst refueling, in which case I'd have zero sympathy anyway). It would only be those who are keen to refuel much quicker than normal who might run the risk of getting a face full of solar flare.

Oh, but I forgot, just because this game has "Dangerous" in the title, it seems some players just want a game in permanent easy mode. Probably the same people who demanded the AI be lobotomized back in 2016.....'cause Heaven forfend that anything dare slow down their "credits per hour".

 

[disorganise]

I second that, although IMHO in that case there should be a new module available in store - the backup-generator so You can use an AFMU to repair the power-plant as well

Whilst off-topic...
I think would be a bit short-sighted. Repairing the power plant *could* be the one great mechanic afforded by 'being able to walk around the ship'.

 

[Rubbernuke]

But... but.. then the dreamers and netflix watchers are in a serious disadvantage!

Well heaven forbid you need to actually, like, press buttons in a co-ordinated manner in response to on-screen stimuli.

 

[disorganise]

Did you miss the bit where I said (a) you'd need to specifically be in an area that is "hotter" & "more unstable" & (b) you'd get sufficient warning of any eruption before it happens. Long enough to evade it if you're paying attention.

Sheesh, why do so many people want to play this game in their sleep? Yet they're the ones who also frequently complain about finding the game "boring".

I quite like the 'add danger to scooping' concept. So +1 there. But....is it not somewhat juxtaposed with the proposed new discovery mechanic? I mean, you're going to be parked at the main star tuning the radio, right? So, pointing the ship in a safe direction and a slow scoop would seem to be the obvious move whilst the tuning is going on - fast scooping almost seems redundant tbh

 

[Cobra1984]

Obsidian Ant's latest video makes the case for a more involved and complex scanning mechanic, but then he points out that such a mechanic will make video production and screenshots of interesting locations take longer.

I am astounded that he cannot see that exploration is for 'video production and taking screenshots'.

I appreciate there are players who get something out of this, but there is no gameplay value associated with any of it.

*That's* the problem - and I'm glad a few of OA's commenters and a few posters on here can also see it.

It won't make any difference how the scanning mechanic plays out. It leads to the same result as a single button press.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I imagined this like a slalom, where ejections have to be dodged as you flew along- bigger scoops mean less dodging, and calmer stars would be more popular than crazy poppers.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I quite like the 'add danger to scooping' concept. So +1 there. But....is it not somewhat juxtaposed with the proposed new discovery mechanic? I mean, you're going to be parked at the main star tuning the radio, right? So, pointing the ship in a safe direction and a slow scoop would seem to be the obvious move whilst the tuning is going on - fast scooping almost seems redundant tbh

Nope, none of what you said has to be the case, as I see it. Fast refueling makes sense regardless of how long you spend doing more detailed scans of a system. Indeed, saving time on refueling frees up more time for actual system exploration.....as I see it. Also, why park in front of the star to do the resolving of the Emissions Data? Even assuming we get stuck with an "out of cockpit" UI, which both sides of the debate have spoken against btw, then I'd still probably head deeper into the system-especially if my scans have revealed interesting USS's I might want to look into-prior to getting more info on the system.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Obsidian Ant's latest video makes the case for a more involved and complex scanning mechanic, but then he points out that such a mechanic will make video production and screenshots of interesting locations take longer.

I am astounded that he cannot see that exploration is for 'video production and taking screenshots'.

I appreciate there are players who get something out of this, but there is no gameplay value associated with any of it.

*That's* the problem - and I'm glad a few of OA's commenters and a few posters on here can also see it.

It won't make any difference how the scanning mechanic plays out. It leads to the same result as a single button press.

Really? So anyone who just wants to explore just to "see what's out there" don't matter so much to you? Note that OA clearly said that, even if that proves to be the case, he considers it a price worth paying. Also, once again, people *assume* it's going to take longer, & that it has no game-play value associated with it, sight unseen. Maybe try waiting to see what the mechanic looks like in its finished state.

 

[Cobra1984]

Sorry I hope I just misunderstood, if so please clarify. But to me it reads as if you seriously would consider 'video production and taking screenshots' as 'gameplay'? The fact that OA doesn't see it that way, even though he's one of the most active and proficient ED video producers, doesn't ring a bell to you?

No of course I don't, I'm commenting on the video.

What does he say exploration is 'for'?

1. Building up a picture of the system. He says the 2d system picture is unsatisfying.

2. His 'Discoveries' video series.

Neither of which are gameplay - and both of which as I said some folks find satisfying as is.

I had to scroll through his comments to find a few players saying, 'hey wait a minute, there's no gameplay in any of this'.

There's no gameplay value to any of the things you discover beyond taking a screenshot or making a video. One of OA's commenters even suggested that being able to sell your system maps would earn you a few credits ongoing - that's a real simple example of meaningful exploration gameplay.

That's the kind of thing I expected after watching the expo presentation 11 months ago. All we're looking at here is a new gui and associated minigame, layering in faux complexity to an already redundant button press.

I'm not in agreement with OA's video on this topic, much as I am a fan of his stuff going back years.

 

[Cobra1984]

Really? So anyone who just wants to explore just to "see what's out there" don't matter so much to you? Note that OA clearly said that, even if that proves to be the case, he considers it a price worth paying. Also, once again, people *assume* it's going to take longer, & that it has no game-play value associated with it, sight unseen. Maybe try waiting to see what the mechanic looks like in its finished state.

I don't see anything in the proposal that adds any gameplay value, and I've explained that quite clearly.

I appreciate those out there exploring and enjoying it as is and I've said that too. I know a couple of guys doing just that.

None of this changes my feedback on the proposed mechanic or my thoughts on what OA has missed in his video.

It's a scanning mechanic, not an exploration update. It's faux complexity layered on top of an already redundant button press - and you should be concerned that Frontier's game design guys cannot see that.

What is outlined in the OP in this thread is a hard sell for Frontier because it's simply not deep enough nor meaningful in terms of gameplay.