mission server - the death of ED

[Morbad]

I suspect you are in a minority, can't back this up with stats though (2.8% etc).

I would be astounded if even one in every thousand players imposed the same sorts of limitations on themselves.

It's kind of ironic to suggest somebody is in a minority because they say they don't board-flip and then attempting to apply the "2.8% meme" when the 2.8% statistic is alleged to be the number of players who DO board-flip regularly.

Frontier's wording implied that they looked at the number of active players in any given day that were board flipping. Since not everyone plays every day and not everyone who board flips does so every day, it's quite likely that the number of players who board-flip is significant, if not a majority.

That said, the exact prevalence is meaningless. If no one board-flipped, or if everyone-board flipped, it wouldn't be a balance issue because everyone would be on the same footing. It's only an issue (from the balance perspective) because some people feel that because they can do it, that they should, while others feel that it's cheating.

The figure is also meaningless from the perspective of Frontier's intended use of the mechanism. They've stated that board flipping was not supposed to be a facet of gameplay.

It's meaningless when discussing the technical merits of unifying the mission servers as well.

About the only argument where it could potentially matter how many people are board flipping is the one that assumes that all those who are board flipping want to continue to be able to do so, which is also not at all clear. Even I compromise my ideal play-style to handle the realities of the game I'm playing and many people have admitted to board flipping in the same post they've said they'd rather it not be possible.

 

[sollisb]

It's kind of ironic to suggest somebody is in a minority because they say they don't board-flip and then attempting to apply the "2.8% meme" when the 2.8% statistic is alleged to be the number of players who DO board-flip regularly.

Well I don't believe the 2.% figure for a moment. FDev woould not be nerfing entire game play mechanics because of 2.8%. It just doesn't add up.

Also, if you look at all the things labelled as exploits, Robigo, Quince, VolleyBoom, Passenger missions, they were all 'working as intended' until a lot more than 2.8% were using them to get rich. Me being one of the most avid (ab) users. But they put it int he game so I use it.

So, 2.8% is just not believable in my book.

As for the missions-server, it's fine with me, I'll have all my accounts triple-elite by the time that nerf happens

 

[rootsrat]

Well I don't believe the 2.% figure for a moment. FDev woould not be nerfing entire game play mechanics because of 2.8%. It just doesn't add up.

Also, if you look at all the things labelled as exploits, Robigo, Quince, VolleyBoom, Passenger missions, they were all 'working as intended' until a lot more than 2.8% were using them to get rich. Me being one of the most avid (ab) users. But they put it int he game so I use it.

So, 2.8% is just not believable in my book.

As for the missions-server, it's fine with me, I'll have all my accounts triple-elite by the time that nerf happens

A few points to make:

1) Board hopping is not gameplay mechanics. It's logging out and back in. That's neither gameplay, nor mechanic. It's a function.
2) They are not nerfing anything, they are getting rid of an unintended loophole in their system. They did say board hopping is NOT an intended behaviour.
3) Therefore Because of 1 and 2, the 2.8% in the context of their decision actually does make perfect sense.

 

[Arkadi]

I believe the statistical value, because bord-flipping is so mind-numbing boring that I do believe only the most die-hard e-peen guys do this. Why would any sane person repeat such a boring thing without being payed for it?

I admit, I did some bord-flipping myself in times of dire need to get me credits, when I was nearly bank-rupt because I had some unintended rebuys - or when all to compelling gold-rushes were in my vicinity, but also this get's old pretty soon. I think I spent some days in Naitis when the skimmer gold rush was at hands. But this get's dull so fast, that I really believe the bord-flippers are not all to many. Becous you know what? Bord Flipping bores out the hell of any sane mind.

 

[Jukelo]

Well I don't believe the 2.% figure for a moment. FDev woould not be nerfing entire game play mechanics because of 2.8%. It just doesn't add up.

Their intent isn't specifically to fix board hopping though. It's to address the performance and stability issues which come with the current system. That their fix also addresses board hopping is a happy side effect.

Board hopping isn't a gameplay mechanic though, I'm baffled that anybody could think such an out-of-game action is gameplay. In fact I don't believe you think it either.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Well I don't believe the 2.% figure for a moment. FDev woould not be nerfing entire game play mechanics because of 2.8%. It just doesn't add up.

And if that was their main reason (to 'cure' board hopping) you'd be right.

But it isn't.

 

[sollisb]

A few points to make:

1) Board hopping is not gameplay mechanics. It's logging out and back in. That's neither gameplay, nor mechanic. It's a function.
2) They are not nerfing anything, they are getting rid of an unintended loophole in their system. They did say board hopping is NOT an intended behaviour.
3) Therefore Because of 1 and 2, the 2.8% in the context of their decision actually does make perfect sense.

You may be right.

The current 'rushes' are yielding great credits without any board flipping required.

 

[sollisb]

Their intent isn't specifically to fix board hopping though. It's to address the performance and stability issues which come with the current system. That their fix also addresses board hopping is a happy side effect.

Board hopping isn't a gameplay mechanic though, I'm baffled that anybody could think such an out-of-game action is gameplay. In fact I don't believe you think it either.

Like I've said elsewhere, flipping is systematic of a poorly designed mission system. To my knowledge no-one has ever said (prior to recent announcements) that it was 'exploiting'..

In fact!! There are parts of this game that absolutely require you to flip modes or relogin..

Example; Notoriety.. you have to relogin for it to show 0 when it should.
Example; Cannot connect to mission server.
Example; Passenger stuck in the cabin.
Example; SLF stuck in brain-dead mode
Example; Combat reticules disappear

 

[De Richleau]

As far as I am concerned, if my CMDR, existing wholly within the game, couldn't pull it off, it's not a legitimate tactic for me to use as a player.

This means I do not mode switch, board flip, sever connection, log off, or even reinstance too frequently, with the intent of manipulating the functionality of the game to my CMDR's advantage, as these are all blatantly out-of-character actions that have zero context within the game's setting.

I even go so far as to avoid most 3rd party tools, though I can see how such information would spread to my character via various means that are not explicitly detailed in-game, and do not consider such information abuse.

My CMDR has been in three Dav's Hope instances, total, with months of time between them and sees no reason to go back as he's operating under the logical assumption that Dav's Hope has already been looted and that no one would be replacing materials specifically for him to steal.

Likewise, my CMDR has no Guardian equipment, mostly because he thinks the effort/reward ratio will be poor if he has to visit countless ruins to gather the materials for a single piece of tech.

Fortunately for my real-life entertainment, none of these things are remotely required for the game to be enjoyable, or for my CMDR to be competitive in non-BGS-influencing scenarios.

Pretty much exactly my approach to Elite too - although that's probably quite a large part of why I'm sitting here no where near Elite in any of the categories!

 

[matemaster]

A few points to make:

1) Board hopping is not gameplay mechanics. It's logging out and back in. That's neither gameplay, nor mechanic. It's a function.
2) They are not nerfing anything, they are getting rid of an unintended loophole in their system. They did say board hopping is NOT an intended behaviour.
3) Therefore Because of 1 and 2, the 2.8% in the context of their decision actually does make perfect sense.

For me as a miner in ED to get couple (3-4) of metallic comodity mining missions I needed to board flip as those mining missions are quite rare.
With the new system it will be almost impossible to get 3-4 metallic comodity mining missions and no waiting is not an option for me.
I would be totally OK with the one mission server solution if also FD would introduce fix for generating more various missions or even IMO the best solution would be separate mission boards for trading, combat, mining, exploring... just like passenger missions are.
The one server mission solution alone is no solution. It will totally prevent some players to get their's favorable missions.

 

[Julio Montega]

For me as a miner in ED to get couple (3-4) of metallic comodity mining missions I needed to board flip as those mining missions are quite rare.
With the new system it will be almost impossible to get 3-4 metallic comodity mining missions and no waiting is not an option for me.
I would be totally OK with the one mission server solution if also FD would introduce fix for generating more various missions or even IMO the best solution would be separate mission boards for trading, combat, mining, exploring... just like passenger missions are.
The one server mission solution alone is no solution. It will totally prevent some players to get their's favorable missions.

These scenarios you describe are why i suggest the player being able to provide services.

Either allow us to create our own missions, or allow us to inform our minor faction of
choice that we "are going to do x activity, contact me, if you need something".
Thus generating missions in those lines adding for the second option to allow
on the fly generation of missions while in ship, doing x activity.

We can have RNGed missions midflight already pop up, but they rather are a disturbance
than being useful, especially when you pledge to a single minor faction insys.

 

[bitstorm]

I believe the statistical value, because bord-flipping is so mind-numbing boring that I do believe only the most die-hard e-peen guys do this. Why would any sane person repeat such a boring thing without being payed for it?

I've hired and fired something like 300 crew, essentialy just wanting one that's not an 80 year old OAP in a pink wig.

 

[rootsrat]

You may be right.

The current 'rushes' are yielding great credits without any board flipping required.

Don't know much about gold rushes, never used one. From what I do know though, I think that some are bugs and some are just lucky BGS dice rolls (far out system with a lot of passenger missions to the bubble etc.).

For me as a miner in ED to get couple (3-4) of metallic comodity mining missions I needed to board flip as those mining missions are quite rare.
With the new system it will be almost impossible to get 3-4 metallic comodity mining missions and no waiting is not an option for me.
I would be totally OK with the one mission server solution if also FD would introduce fix for generating more various missions or even IMO the best solution would be separate mission boards for trading, combat, mining, exploring... just like passenger missions are.
The one server mission solution alone is no solution. It will totally prevent some players to get their's favorable missions.

Separate boards - not a bad idea... maybe? Not sure.

I personally think that the 2 biggest problems are

1) Lack of balance and logic in mission payouts
2) Lack of variety in generated missions.

Earning balancing was always Elite's biggest problem and IMHO until that's fixed, then no other solution will be satisfactory.

Plus, regardless of what FDEV will do, there will ALWAYS be part of the community which is unhappy with whatever the developers introduce/remove/change in the game.

 

[Tifu]

These scenarios you describe are why i suggest the player being able to provide services.

Either allow us to create our own missions, or allow us to inform our minor faction of
choice that we "are going to do x activity, contact me, if you need something".
Thus generating missions in those lines adding for the second option to allow
on the fly generation of missions while in ship, doing x activity.

1. Pledge to a minor faction
2. As part of a minor faction, be able to offer missions in any station where that minor faction exists.
3. Use BGS mechanics to expand the presence of your minor faction to new systems

My problem with the current ED mechanics is the sense of disconnectedness. Give us an incentive to care Fdevs - it's long overdue.

 

[bitstorm]

I've hired and fired something like 300 crew, essentialy just wanting one that's not an 80 year old OAP in a pink wig.

If the NPC generation system created better looking characters I would not feel the need to do this.

Please increase the quality of NPC generation or increase the number of crew available for hiring!

 

[Vorxian]

The assumption that hauling a plane full of sugar should be profitable because you have a plane and want to haul sugar, is both a great analogy for what board flippers seem to want, and also pure insanity.

The profit from the sugar you can fit in an A300 isn't going to cover the cost of fuel for the trip, nor should it in any plausible scenario, no matter how much someone wants to haul sugar at 15 cents profit a kg with a hundred-million dollar aircraft.

but but but but .... if there's a sugar shortage to a 1st world country, and they're paying ludicrous prices, Sugar would be the only thing i'll be hauling in my A300

 

[Bionic Bytes]

For me as a miner in ED to get couple (3-4) of metallic comodity mining missions I needed to board flip as those mining missions are quite rare.
With the new system it will be almost impossible to get 3-4 metallic comodity mining missions and no waiting is not an option for me.
I would be totally OK with the one mission server solution if also FD would introduce fix for generating more various missions or even IMO the best solution would be separate mission boards for trading, combat, mining, exploring... just like passenger missions are.
The one server mission solution alone is no solution. It will totally prevent some players to get their's favorable missions.

I love to mine too. When I posted a reply very much like this one I was labelled as 'cheater' and 'min/maxer' and expecting perfect mission boards.
Thing is I have a few hours to play every weekend and I like to play my game. I enjoy the mining because I like the thrill of return with a boat load of metallics and I love to find the missions which rewards the many, many hours performing those actions. So for these missions to take hours to refresh (when I know for a fact they will eventually) is a serious issue for my enjoyment of the game. As I have said in another thread (most likley ignored by fedv) I would like the mining missions 'streamlined' so that they don't ask for such a broad spread of minerals because it's impossible to predict this when first venturing out into the black. In real life, you would know in advance what the demand was and go out and mine the required minerals; here in ED it's a RNG lottery. So to compensate I would like the missions to only offer a few different minerals to mine for and that would focus our extensive efforts in the belts knowing that when we return there would at least be a chance of a payout inline with regular missions.

 

[Ddraig]

Why is it the devs problem, or ours for that matter, that you dont have time to play?
I am tired of that argument. It makes no sense.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/446165-Implementation-of-a-dedicated-mission-server/page59

FDEV, for the love of the game, please don't do this. Missions are the core activity of the game. To wait 10 mins to find the activity you want to play is simply too long. To assume only 2.8% of players refresh the board is a joke, or someone has seriously misunderstood the statistics he's been reading.

Putt simply: If you made the above changes, and that's it, it WILL be a MAJOR cause for the games death. WATCH carefully the active players statistic between now and Q4 launch because it will drop off. Nobody in their sane mind will wait 10 minuets for a mission. Many people have limited time available to play, perhaps an hour or two each week, and to have that time wasted in unproductive mission refresh will kill it for them, like myself.

You absolutely must address the large number of issues with the current missions - something you are not planning on doing. This is the second mistake.

Fix the mission wrinkles - the clean kill bonus preventing completions, the woeful payouts (yea 10% bump - an absolute insult), kill count for massacre missions, fix the endless other mission related issues mentioned all over these forums.

If you don't believe me have a focused feedback on your proposed changes to the non-refresh mission server. All hell will break loose.

This is my suggestion: Have someone actually play ED, from the ground up in a sidewinder, and measure how long it takes him to 'progress' to a python using your new mission server. Then have him progress to Corvette/Cutter. Lets have these metrics posted on the forums.
I can promise you the estimated time will be somewhere close to astronomical. I know this because I've done it and put the time in, and that's with the ability to refresh the board as many times as I need.

Whilst I would love more missions on the board this fix may make me interested in BGS ops again. I refused to cheat so it was very disheartening knowing my contribution was always a joke . I can't wait

 

[Stealthie]

Well I don't believe the 2.% figure for a moment. FDev woould not be nerfing entire game play mechanics because of 2.8%. It just doesn't add up.

No, it doesn't add up.

What does add up, because it's an empirical fact, is that under specific circumstances many more than 2.8% of players board-flip and that has a catastrophic effect on the mission generator and the game's stability in general.

THIS is why it's considered important enough to eradicate an exploit that only 2.8% of players use regularly.